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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice.
    #2094163 - 11/11/03 10:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

This got talked about nationally for a little while immediately after 9/11. Specifically, initially the word "revenge" was getting thrown around alot at first, but it was quickly replaced with "justice".

Is there really any difference between revenge and justice in this context, or is it just a prettier word?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2094197 - 11/11/03 10:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Justice in this case would be to capture Osama Bin Laden and others responsible for the attacks and put them on trial for crimes against humanity. Bombing an entire country is just revenge.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2094200 - 11/11/03 10:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)


Is there really any difference between revenge and justice in this
context, or is it just a prettier word?


Hehe. A funny way to put it. You could argue for both sides of
that argument.


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Offlinepattern
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2094265 - 11/11/03 10:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Justice is legalized revenge.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: pattern]
    #2094333 - 11/11/03 11:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

silversoul and pattern win the awards for
best answers in a thread, 2003.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: pattern]
    #2094464 - 11/11/03 11:50 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

pattern said:
Justice is legalized revenge.




Good quote





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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: Learyfan]
    #2094715 - 11/12/03 12:55 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Revenge isn't wrong. The desire to get back at someoen for being wronged is part of Justice.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2094748 - 11/12/03 01:03 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

the desire to get back at someone for being wronged is based in the assumption that two wrongs make a right. I personally don't believe that, but to each his own.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2094759 - 11/12/03 01:05 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
the desire to get back at someone for being wronged is based in the assumption that two wrongs make a right. I personally don't believe that, but to each his own.



See, that's the problem. We have no objective way of saying whether revenge is right or wrong, yet foreign and domestic policy must be set which relies on one of the two views.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2094823 - 11/12/03 01:24 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Here's why revenge is wrong, at least in a foreign and domestic policy:

Revenge leads to counter-revenge, always.

You see people who are on the receiving side of revenge don't exactly see it as an ok thing. In their eyes, they have now been wronged. Now it's their turn for revenge...


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: trendal]
    #2095005 - 11/12/03 02:03 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Damned if you do, damned if you dont. If you don't retalliate, they will attack you again anyway.

I never saw what we did as "justice" just as taking care of business. Emotional satisfaction had nothing to do with it.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2095047 - 11/12/03 02:11 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

If you don't retalliate, they will attack you again anyway.

Maybe...but they will stop. If you put all your effort into defense instead of offense then your losses can be nearly eliminated. Probably much lower than the losses would be if you do retaliate.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: trendal]
    #2095386 - 11/12/03 03:44 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

By defense do you mean kicking out everyone who isn't white and closing off our borders?

What kind of defense are you talking about?


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: trendal]
    #2095426 - 11/12/03 04:08 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

:smile:

Defense like giving money to our first responder program.

Building a real fence at our borders and hiring additional border patrols. 

Improved visa plan.

Improved handling of illegal immigration.

Improved records of student visa information.

Liason with all flight schools ( I hope this has already been completed)

Hiring federal employees to check baggage, increased technology for detecting objects that could be dangerous.

Forcing the airlines to have air marshalls on board each of their flights over a certain size of plane or number of people.

Sealable cockpits that cannot be entered from the cabin during a flight nor opened in any sort of hostage situation.

Bringing our reservists home and increase our civillian programs.  Military police can coordinate with local police on large events like the olympics or what not. 

Etc, etc.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2095435 - 11/12/03 04:12 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

$450 a head "entering America tax" to help pay for all of this.



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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2095440 - 11/12/03 04:13 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Not going into debt with the IRAQ war could have more then covered it, and bailed out alot of schools in various states that sorely need the money.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: trendal]
    #2096660 - 11/12/03 12:15 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Here's why revenge is wrong, at least in a foreign and domestic policy:

Revenge leads to counter-revenge, always.

You see people who are on the receiving side of revenge don't exactly see it as an ok thing. In their eyes, they have now been wronged. Now it's their turn for revenge...




Ah, yes, the key tenet of gang warfare: You killed my homeboy, so I gotta kill you. Then your homeboys gotta kill me. Then my homeboys gotta kill your homeboys... and so on and so forth. Anybody that ever lived in the ghetto knows this. Too bad GW never lived in no ghetto...

PS:

I love how GW claims Christianity in order to get heartland votes and then doesn't live up to Christian principles (turn the other cheek, anyone?) in his foriegn policy. Classic demagoguery. Oh well, most of those heartlanders are too ignorant to notice the discrepancy, and besides, a lot of them hate arabs anyway.


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Edited by DoctorJ (11/12/03 12:17 PM)


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2096785 - 11/12/03 12:57 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

By defense do you mean kicking out everyone who isn't white and closing off our borders?

I think you know I would never suggest such a thing :smirk:

No, my idea was something closer to what PsiloKitten posted. Defense is not racism.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: 9-11: Revenge Vs. Justice. [Re: trendal]
    #2096811 - 11/12/03 01:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I love how GW claims Christianity in order to get heartland votes and then doesn't live up to Christian principles (turn the other cheek, anyone?) in his foriegn policy. Classic demagoguery. Oh well, most of those heartlanders are too ignorant to notice the discrepancy, and besides, a lot of them hate arabs anyway.




Indeed, Crusades have to have the backing of the Papacy.


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