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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Hitler V Saddam
    #2848560 - 07/01/04 07:42 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

A letter to the editor in the Post (Washington) the other day (forgot when) went something to the effect of...

"Sure Hitler and Saddam were both evil guys, but Hitler was a threat to the US and was invading his neighbors. We shouldn't intervene unless someone is a threat to us. We were right in overthrowing Hitler, but not right in overthrowing Saddam."

I think that a lot of people in here have said, basically, the same thing. So, let me ask you this.

If Adolf Hitler's Wehrmact had never invaded any neighboring nation, would a war with him have been just? This also excludes the alliance formed in the Triumverate Alliance, thus Japans attack on the US wouldn't be grounds for war against Germany or Italy.

If we knew of the Holocaust, but used the prescription for war that so many weak-minded liberals here use, the "If they aren't a threat, let them be" logic, should we have just said "Bah fuck those 6 million jews, homo's and blacks, as long as he doesn't bother us directly, who cares?" If you don't think we should have, and you do think we should have intervened to stop the massacre of civilians, then don't you think the "unless they pose a threat to us" credo is pretty weak?


On a personal note, i'm working a new job now that gives me about 100-105 hours per week (at 43$/hour regular pay, plus overtime, holy fuck I love money) so I might nto be around as much as I'd like to be to keep this thread going. I promise I'll come in as much as I can and not leave my child to wiher on the vine. Thanks.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2849058 - 07/01/04 10:11 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Where does that sort of logic end?





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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: Learyfan]
    #2849111 - 07/01/04 10:22 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

*rim shot*


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: Learyfan]
    #2849643 - 07/02/04 12:06 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

If Adolf Hitler's Wehrmact had never invaded any neighboring nation, would a war with him have been just?

Depends why he's being invaded.



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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2849964 - 07/02/04 01:27 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

if he didnt invade other countries he wouldnt of killed 6 million people.... most likely would of been a civil war (your country went through that too you know, just not as horrible as theirs did).


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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Offlinemescalinemark
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2850226 - 07/02/04 04:06 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

hahaha, we knew they were killing jews all along, george herbert walker bush funded it and had his assets seased for trading with the enemy, and we knew the japanese were gunna atack us. why did we enter word war 2, germany was trying to take over the world... and thats our job. and america like sucks, huhuhuhuhu, and conservitives are stupid and illogical huhuhuhu<beavis and butthead laugh


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: mescalinemark]
    #2850229 - 07/02/04 04:09 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

we knew they were killing jews all along, george herbert walker bush funded it and had his assets seased for trading with the enemy, and we knew the japanese were gunna atack us. why did we enter word war 2, germany was trying to take over the world... and thats our job.




Do they not teach history in school anymore?


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: mescalinemark]
    #2850230 - 07/02/04 04:10 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Come now calm down back in the cage you go...

There doesn't that feel better?
:sun:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2850472 - 07/02/04 07:50 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

You have to consider the fact that most of Saddam's war crimes occurred while we were supporting him. Who knows what might have happened if we had refused to do so?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2850499 - 07/02/04 08:11 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

On a personal note, i'm working a new job now that gives me about 100-105 hours per week (at 43$/hour regular pay, plus overtime, holy fuck I love money) so I might nto be around as much as I'd like to be to keep this thread going. I promise I'll come in as much as I can and not leave my child to wiher on the vine. Thanks.





So you felt the need to tell us how much you will get paid? hmmph.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2850560 - 07/02/04 08:41 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I did the math. If he works 100 hours in a week he?ll earn $5,590 or so. Am I right?






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Mp3 of the month:  The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: Learyfan]
    #2850576 - 07/02/04 08:54 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

depends on the tax bracket he's in, i didn't take the time to figure it out.....i'd never take that kind of pay cut.  :grin:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: Learyfan]
    #2850822 - 07/02/04 11:00 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I didn't realise fluffing paid that well.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: Xlea321]
    #2850855 - 07/02/04 11:07 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

wow, you do have a sense of humor, good job :thumbup:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2850894 - 07/02/04 11:17 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

You're scaring me now inny..


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: Xlea321]
    #2851125 - 07/02/04 12:05 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

That's my goal.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2851711 - 07/02/04 02:12 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

The Holocaust couldn't have happened without Hitler invading most of Europe...so trying to say "well if he DIDN'T invade all those countries but still ordered the Holocaust" is pointless.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: trendal]
    #2852311 - 07/02/04 06:05 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I think that most of the camps were in Germany and Poland, weren't they? Not many people visit France to study the Holocaust, right? Lets say just the ones in Germany, then. Would you (silversoul7 especially) have thought that sanctions by the UN were the best answer?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2852408 - 07/02/04 07:04 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Poland was the main place for the concentration camps, and if you remember correctly, it wasn't until he invaded Poland that the war began. As for sanctions, I don't think they were the best answer. I think that not supporting Saddam in the first place while he was committing those atrocities would be a better answer.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2852821 - 07/02/04 11:15 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

so if "Sadam kills so many thousands" how come the million or 2 killed in the vietnam war werent counted? sure we bitched and protested and made them look bad, but where was the yanks war crime trials? I cant stand the hypocricy we live in.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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InvisibleAhronZombi
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2852928 - 07/03/04 12:12 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

GW is fallowing the path of hitler more than sadam has. i say if sadam is proven guilty of all the things everyone blames him for he is a bad guy, but he isnt as bad as hitler. Bush is headed down a path almost identical to hitlers rise to power and he already supports striping away rights of americas and torture


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2853115 - 07/03/04 02:05 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

my sister just wrote a paper on the similarities of nazy germany and bush's america (well not bush but the peopl ein power, including him) for her history class at ubc. next time i see her ill see if i can get a copy off her.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2853356 - 07/03/04 04:18 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

GW is fallowing the path of hitler more than sadam has. 




A Few Similarities Between Saddam and Hitler

1. Hiter and Saddam were both dictators

2. Hitler and Saddam both commited genocide.

3. Hitler and Saddam both oppressed a minoirty.

4. Hiter and Saddam both have moustaches.


Now perhaps you could make a list too, isn't learning  FUN

Quote:

Bush is headed down a path almost identical to hitlers rise to power and he already supports striping away rights of americas and torture




I know if we ignore the Munich Putsch, Hitlers imprisonment, the Reichstag fire and the Night of the long knives their lives are identical...

Thank you for bringing this to my attention buddy  :tongue:


Edited by st0nedphucker (07/03/04 09:24 AM)


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2853418 - 07/03/04 06:01 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Now perhaps you could make a list too

If you insist...  :smirk:

After President Bush promised last fall to invade Iraq, his spokesmen fell into the habit of comparing Saddam Hussein with Adolph Hitler, by most accounts the most monstrous figure in modern history.  Everybody was therefore shocked when the German Minister of Justice turned the tables by comparing Bush himself with Hitler.  As to be expected, she (the Justice Minister) was forced to resign because of her extreme disrespect for an American president.  However, the resemblance sticks -- there are too many similarities to be ignored, some of which may be listed here.



1. Like Hitler, President Bush was not elected by a majority, but was forced to engage in political maneuvering in order to gain office.



2. Like Hitler, Bush began to curtail civil liberties in response to a well-publicized national outrage, in Hitler's case the Reichstag fire, in Bush's case the 9-11 catastrophe.



3. Like Hitler, Bush went on to pursue a reckless ultra-nationalist foreign policy without the mandate of the electorate.



4. Like Hitler, Bush has accordingly improved his popularity ratings, especially with veterans and conservative Republicans, by mounting an aggressive public relations campaign against foreign enemies.  Just as Hitler cited international communism to justify Germany's military buildup, Bush uses Al Qaeda and the Axis of Evil to justify our current military buildup.



5. Like Hitler, Bush promotes militarism while in the midst of a major economic recession (or depression).  He uses war preparations to help subsidize defense industries (Halliburton, Bechtel, etc.) and presumably the rest of the economy on a trickle-down basis.



6. Like Hitler, Bush glorifies patriotism to stir up public support.  He treats our nation's unique historic destiny almost as a religious cause sanctioned by God.



7. Like Hitler, Bush quickly makes and breaks diplomatic ties, and he makes generous promises that he soon abandons, as in the case of Mexico, Russia, Afghanistan, and even New York City.



8. Like Hitler, Bush envisages a future world order that guarantees his own nation's hegemonic supremacy rather than cooperative harmony under the authority of the United Nations (or League of Nations).  He is willing to break the U.N. Charter in promoting this end.



9. Like Hitler, Bush scraps international treaties, most notably the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, the Biological Weapons Convention, the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, the Convention on the Prohibition of Land Mines, the Chemical Weapons Convention, the Kyoto Global Warming Accord, and the International Criminal Court.



10. Like Hitler, Bush depends on an axis of collaborative allies, which he describes as a "coalition of the willing," to give the impression of having a broad popular alliance.  These include the U.K. as compared to Mussolini's Italy, and Spain and Bulgaria as compared to, well, Spain and Bulgaria, both of which were aligned with Germany during the thirties and World War II.



11. Like Hitler, Bush possesses a war machine much bigger and more effective than the military capabilities of other nations.  Today, Bush depends on a "defense" budget roughly equivalent to the combined military expenditures of the rest of the world.



12. Like Hitler, Bush is willing to invade other nations despite the opposition of the U.N. (League of Nations).  He also has no qualms about bribing, bullying and insulting its members, even tapping their telephone lines.



13. Like Hitler, Bush pursues war without cutting back on the peacetime economy.  He actually seeks to reduce taxes while conducting an expensive invasion and occupation of an "undesirable" nation.



14. Like Hitler, Bush launches unilateral invasions on a supposedly preemptive basis.  Just as Hitler convinced the German public to think of Poland as a threat to Germany in 1939, Bush wants Americans to think of Iraq as a "potential" threat to our national security.



15. Like Hitler, Bush is willing to inflict high levels of bloodshed, with many thousands of casualties anticipated in Iraq, especially since the city of Baghdad--with a population of between 5 and 6 million--will be a primary target.



16. Like Hitler, Bush depends on a military strategy that features a "shock and awe" blitzkrieg beginning with devastating air strikes, then an invasion led by heavy armor columns.



17. Like Hitler, Bush is perfectly willing to sacrifice life as part of his official duty, as indicated by his unique record as a governor of Texas who was reluctant to commute death sentences.



18. Like Hitler Bush began warfare on a single front (Al Qaeda quartered in Afghanistan), but then expanded it to a second front with Iraq, only to be confronted with North Korea as a potential third front.  Much the same thing happened when Hitler expanded German military operations from Spain to Poland and France, then was distracted by Yugoslavia before invading the USSR in 1941.



19. Like Hitler, Bush has no qualms about imposing "regime change" by installing Quisling-style client governments reinforced by full-scale military occupation under a military governor.



20. Like Hitler, Bush curtails civil liberties and depends on detention centers (i.e. concentration camps) such as Guantanamo Bay.



21. Like Hitler, Bush repeats lies often enough that they come to be accepted as the truth.  Bush and his spokesmen argue, for example that every measure has been taken to avoid war (hardly true), that an invasion of Iraq will diminish (not intensify) the terrorist threat to the world, and that the U.S. is staging an invasion because the risks of inaction would be greater (not less).  All of this is highly debatable.  They likewise argue that Iraq is linked with Al Qaeda (which has yet to be proven), and that nothing whatsoever has been achieved by U.N. inspectors to warrant the postponement of U.S. war plans (which simply isn't true). They insist that Iraq hides numerous weapons it does not possess as well

as can be determined by U.N. inspectors, and they refuse to acknowledge the total absence of any nuclear weapons program in Iraq since the late nineties.  As perhaps to be expected, they indignantly accuse everybody else of deception and evasiveness.



22. Like Hitler, Bush incessantly finds new excuses to justify war?from Iraq's WMD threat to the elimination of Saddam Hussein, to his supposed Al Qaeda connection, to the creation of democracy in the Middle East as a model for neighboring states, and back again to the WMD threat.  As soon as one excuse for war is challenged, Bush shifts to another, but only to shift back again at another time.



23. Like Hitler Bush and his cohorts exaggerate ruthlessness by their enemies in order to justify their own.  Just as Hitler cited the threat of communist violence to justify even greater violence on the part of Germany, the Bush team justifies a full-scale invasion of Iraq by emphasizing Saddam Hussein's crimes against humanity that were for the most part committed when Iraq was a client-ally of the U.S., supplied with both advisors and materiel (poison gas included) by our own government.



24. Like Hitler, Bush's Messianic ambition to bring about America's hegemonic dominance in the world makes him perhaps the most dangerous President in our nation's history, a rogue chief executive capable of waging any number of illegal preemptive wars.



25. Like Hitler, Bush has become so obsessed with his vision of a Manichaean conflict between good (U.S. patriotism) and evil (the anti-patriotic "other") that for many in contact with the White House he is beginning to seem as if he has lost touch with reality.



26. Like Hitler, Bush takes pleasure in the mythology of frontier justice.  As a youth Hitler read and memorized the western novels of Karl May, and Bush retains into his maturity his fascination with simplistic cowboy values.  He also exaggerates a cowboy twang despite his elitist education at Andover, Yale and Harvard.



27. Like Hitler, Bush misconstrues evolutionary theory, in Hitler's case by treating the Aryan race as being superior, in Bush's case by rejecting science for fundamentalist creationism.



Of course countless differences may be listed between Hitler and President Bush, most of which are to the credit of Bush.  Nevertheless, the twenty-seven resemblances listed here are striking, especially since Bush's presidency this last couple of years must be compared to Hitler's early performance as German Chancellor, preceding the chain of events that culminated in World War II.  As with Hitler, Bush's early successes in pursuit of global imperialism--whatever the cost to others--might well culminate in disaster, if not quite of the same magnitude.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles3/Jayne_Hitler-Bush.htm


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: Xlea321]
    #2853451 - 07/03/04 06:23 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I haven't the time to respond to such stupid comparisons...


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2853457 - 07/03/04 06:24 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

None as stupid as "they both have moustaches" surely?

Give it a go - as you said "Isn't learning fun"  :smile:


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: Xlea321]
    #2853513 - 07/03/04 06:49 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I see you're finally developing a sense of humor.

Good for you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineEd1
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2853610 - 07/03/04 09:12 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Bush is nothing like Hitler. Bush doesn't talk about a superior race. Bush doesn't hate Jews. In fact the USA is allied with Israel.

You can see here who is responsible for arming Saddam Hussein:



http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/Trnd_Ind_IRQ_Imps_73-02.pdf

Top three suppliers of arms to Saddam Hussein, 1973 - 2002

USSR: 57%
* France: 13%
* China: 12%

Then, in order of importance:

* Czechoslovakia: 7%
* Poland: 4%
* Brazil: 2%
* Egypt: 1%
* Romania: 1%
* Denmark: 1%
* Libya: 1%

USA's sales -- 1 percent. None provided before or after the Iraq-Iran war.


Syria hiding Iraq WMDs
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36463


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OfflineEd1
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Re: Hitler V Saddam [Re: Ed1]
    #2853619 - 07/03/04 09:20 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

About the lack of hypocrisy on Vietnam. The communists invaded South Vietnam. They also invaded South Korea before that. If you take the side of a communist then you are anti-human. You want to lead the world to destruction. Communism is evil. Stalin killed more people than Hitler. Western democracies and capitalism is good. The USA is a western democratic capitalistic (with some socialism) country. The USA is a NATO ally.


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