Home | Community | Message Board


MRCA Tyroler Gluckspilze
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlineflow
outlaw immortal
Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 496
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere......
    #1439981 - 04/08/03 06:26 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a
single garment of destiny.
Whatever affects one directly,
Affects all indirectly. -MLK Jr.

so, why shouldn't we free iraq? i've been around this forum a lot the past couple of weeks, and i still haven't come across a good argument for not going into iraq.
You can and definetly should question bush's motives for this war, to be honest, i don't trust the guy at all, but the end result will be a better world. Here are my reasons point by point, as to why this war will be good for the world overall. If you can't find fault with these points, then you should seriously take a look at your position. You may be anitwar for completely selfish reasons.

1. Saddam needs to be removed and this could not be done peacefully. Even if he is not an immediate threat to the US, only an idiot would say he is not a threat to the stability of the middle east, and the atrocities he's committed against his own people is enough to justify his removal.

2. A US led invasion is the best way to do this to minimize the length of the war, the civilian casualiies, and the coallition casualities. (and ironically probably the casualities of the iraqi forces as well.) A revolution would be crushed, and who's to say the rebels wouldn't be led by someone as bad as Saddam?

3. The entire world, not just the US has an interest in iraqi oil. The US is going to go in and repair the degraded oil fields, then turn them over to the iraqi's. You're naive to think that US oil company's won't profit off of this, but the US gets far less oil from iraq than most people seem to think, and there is no way that we could get away with stealing their oil, not with the whole world watching our every move. In the end this will greatly increase the entire world's oil supply, lowering gas prices worldwide, not just in the US.

i really want to understand the point of view of the antiwar protestors, but they don't seem to get the big picture. They seem to base their arguments on these points:
1. Bush is evil. (while i don't totally disagree, this doesn't have anything to do with freeing iraq)
2. No war for oil. (this one is just stupid, see pt3)
3. war is bad. (well, of course it is, but it is sometimes necessary)
4. this will bring more terrorism (so? will doing nothing stop terrorism? in the short term, there may be more terror attacks, but a free, democratic, grateful iraq would be a huge asset in the war on terror, and help show the region that the US really isn't that bad.)

in the end, i think the quote sums up my position pretty well, as long as their are evil dictators in the world, they will fund and support terrorism, and Saddam is just #1 on the list right now.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepimpadelic
enthusiast
Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 255
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere...... [Re: flow]
    #1440056 - 04/08/03 06:57 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:




so, why shouldn't we free iraq?






Because we can't free Iraq. Hell, the American people aren't even free.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineflow
outlaw immortal
Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 496
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere...... [Re: pimpadelic]
    #1440079 - 04/08/03 07:07 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Because we can't free Iraq. Hell, the American people aren't even free.



who is free then? what the hell are you talking about?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepimpadelic
enthusiast
Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 255
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere...... [Re: flow]
    #1440090 - 04/08/03 07:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


who is free then? what the hell are you talking about?




I can't really tell you who is free. I thought this discussion was about how you think it is justifiable to free the iraqis and I told you they can't be freed.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineflow
outlaw immortal
Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 496
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere...... [Re: pimpadelic]
    #1440109 - 04/08/03 07:18 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I thought this discussion was about how you think it is justifiable to free the iraqis and I told you they can't be freed.



what a stupid argument. so you're saying people can never be free, if that is the case go to the philosophy forum, because i'm not about to debate that bs.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.... [Re: flow]
    #1440116 - 04/08/03 07:20 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

people like you are among the easiest to deny their freedom


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepimpadelic
enthusiast
Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 255
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere...... [Re: flow]
    #1440119 - 04/08/03 07:22 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

IM not saying people cant be free. Im just saying the United Stated Government can't free anybody. Hell we have more people in prison per capita then any other nation in the world.



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.... [Re: pimpadelic]
    #1440136 - 04/08/03 07:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

not just per capita my friend


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere...... [Re: flow]
    #1440142 - 04/08/03 07:26 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Flow I thought that was well written, but I will argue anyways.

Quote:


so, why shouldn't we free iraq? i've been around this forum a lot the past couple of weeks, and i still haven't come across a good argument for not going into iraq.




Here's one: Iraq does not belong to America, it is a sovereign nation, that wasn't attacking America. Iraq and America have had a bitter rivalry, and I argue that my country (Canada) should not go to war against a nation that we neither hate nor are threatened by. I am proud that my country is staying out of this war.

Anyways its a moot point: the war is on, and whining about it wont stop it. I think protesters and other peace activist pressure is doing good though: making the war less atrocious than it probably would have been. I suspect that Shock and Awe was brought down a few notches in brutality because of Feb 15th.

Quote:


You may be anitwar for completely selfish reasons.




Its not that I care deeply about Iraqis, I dont. At least I admit it. War is a bad deal, because it's harmful effects spill over into other areas: economy, freedom, and justice. Even though I care about my Americans brothers more than I do about Iraqis, I'd rather see America 'not in a war' than 'in a war'.

Quote:


1. Saddam needs to be removed and this could not be done peacefully. Even if he is not an immediate threat to the US, only an idiot would say he is not a threat to the stability of the middle east, and the atrocities he's committed against his own people is enough to justify his removal.




I see no reason why Americans need Saddam removed, other than: "I dont like him, hes evil, he has bad oil policies, he treats people bad, he is as bad as a terrorist". If you had said something like: "Saddam is attacking American troops outside of Iraq" that would have got me going.

Quote:


2. A US led invasion is the best way to do this to minimize the length of the war, the civilian casualiies, and the coallition casualities.




Thats true, but thats not an argument for war. Thats an argument for who should lead a war.

Quote:


3. The entire world, not just the US has an interest in iraqi oil.




Of course they are interested, its only natural. Not an argument for war.

Quote:


The US is going to go in and repair the degraded oil fields, then turn them over to the iraqi's. You're naive to think that US oil company's won't profit off of this, but the US gets far less oil from iraq than most people seem to think, and there is no way that we could get away with stealing their oil, not with the whole world watching our every move. In the end this will greatly increase the entire world's oil supply, lowering gas prices worldwide, not just in the US.




There are many other alternatives to repairing an oilfield than war. Saddam would have granted these rights to France/Russia over America. I think that, topped with the Euro, Saddam really pissed off the US administration.

Quote:


4. this will bring more terrorism (so? will doing nothing stop terrorism? in the short term, there may be more terror attacks, but a free, democratic, grateful iraq would be a huge asset in the war on terror, and help show the region that the US really isn't that bad.)




We can never know until when/if it happens, but I'm betting that terrorist attempts will increase. So? Terrorist increases are a bad thing. If doing nothing will not stop terrorism, then at the very least, doing nothing is better than war.

You are placing alot of faith in America doing a complete about face after this war is over. A 180 degree turn into the light, for all the world to see! What convincing evidence do you have to show us that this is a likely scenario?

Quote:


Saddam is just #1 on the list right now.




You'll have another #1 right after Saddam is done with. And another #1, and another, and another... all I see here is a recipe for endless war. American actions are bringing about disgusting acts of inhumanity (civilian casualties), and yet America tries to ignore it, or do anything they can to make these crimes seem irrelevant and insignificant. If an American child had his arms blown off by an Iraqi bomb, what would happen? Would you dismiss it as colateral damage, or would you be pissed off? I was extremely mad when 9/11 happened, now it is happening again, from the hand of America, and you expect other countries to support you?

As an advocate of peace, what I see are two warlike cultures trying to pretend they are the good guys of this conflict, when the fact is both Iraq and America are acting like dumbasses who can't mend their grievances. "Show your cards", "with us or against us", Bush wants to drag the whole world into his war. Count me out.

In the end, I agree with you in that, I hope it all turns out for the best.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineflow
outlaw immortal
Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 496
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.... [Re: ]
    #1440150 - 04/08/03 07:27 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

people like you are among the easiest to deny their freedom



do you know me? No. You would have to have come to that opinion in this way: Flow is pro-war, therefore he is a brainwashed sheep. This is obviously moronic, and quite typical of the anitwar people on this site. instead of trying to insult me, why not try to prove me wrong by giving some sort of evidence that one of my points is wrong. Or is it to hard for you?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepimpadelic
enthusiast
Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 255
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.... [Re: flow]
    #1440164 - 04/08/03 07:33 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


Flow is pro-war, therefore he is a brainwashed sheep. 




I have to agree with you on that :smirk: 


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineflow
outlaw immortal
Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 496
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere...... [Re: pattern]
    #1440208 - 04/08/03 07:50 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Iraq does not belong to America, it is a sovereign nation, that wasn't attacking America.



so because they don't live in our country we shouldn't care about the people of iraq? oh, i get it. Let me ask you this. If you're neighbor abuses his kids, but does nothing to you, are you wrong to stop him?
Quote:

I see no reason why Americans need Saddam removed, other than: "I dont like him, hes evil, he has bad oil policies, he treats people bad, he is as bad as a terrorist".



how about freeing the people who have been living under his boot? That was kind of my point, freeing the iraqi people, by itself is enough justification for this war.
Quote:

There are many other alternatives to repairing an oilfield than war. Saddam would have granted these rights to France/Russia over America.



see, the whole problem is that UN sanctions would have prevented this as long as saddam led the country. Obviously, no more oil was going to be allowed to leave iraq than UN sanctions permitted as long as the money would go to fund saddam's war machine, therefore, saddam needed to be removed for these oil fields to be repaired, therefore, this war was necessary to allow the entire world access to that oil.
Quote:

but I'm betting that terrorist attempts will increase.



please explain why.
Quote:

You are placing alot of faith in America doing a complete about face after this war is over.



how is this an about face? is this war not called "operation iraqi freedom?"
has our gov't not made it clear that the goal of this war is a free, democratic iraq?
Quote:

You'll have another #1 right after Saddam is done with. And another #1, and another, and another... all I see here is a recipe for endless war.



yep, until we run out of dictators who suppress their people. think about it though, if we go through these countries one by one, and successfully turn them into democracies, won't that make the whole world a better place? I'm not naive enough to think this will bring about world peace, but can you think of a better way to start than removing evil dictators from power?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.... [Re: flow]
    #1440221 - 04/08/03 07:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Your points are laughable. But I'll pick your stupid post apart, just for you little buddy. But first, I've seen a lot of your posts, I didn't arrive at any conclusion about you based on this single post or even solely on your position regarding the war. Unless I have mistaken you for someone else. I thought you were the guy who supported the patriot act. If that's not you, maybe you aren't as bad as I thought. That doesn't negate the fact that you didn't make a single good point, no matter how much you thought you did.

Quote:

Saddam needs to be removed and this could not be done peacefully.




Did he need to be removed? Or did he need to be disarmed? Because up until the week before the war, the US simply wanted him to be disarmed. And who needs him to be removed? The Kurds? Maybe. American oil companies? For sure.

Quote:

Even if he is not an immediate threat to the US, only an idiot would say he is not a threat to the stability of the middle east, and the atrocities he's committed against his own people is enough to justify his removal.




Atrocities committed against one's own people has never been reason enough for any state to go to war. There are countless other countries where human rights are walked all over. Why aren't you out screaming for war with China and North Korea? With Iran? Pakistan (oh, my fault, they support our war on Iraq so let's just ignore their own human rights record)? Cuba? Where are we in all those places? Either human rights as a sole issue is reason enough to invade another country, or it isn't. To make no judgement on whether this is right or wrong, Flow, it isn't reason enough according to pesky little things like the law.

Quote:

A US led invasion is the best way to do this to minimize the length of the war, the civilian casualiies, and the coallition casualities. (and ironically probably the casualities of the iraqi forces as well.) A revolution would be crushed, and who's to say the rebels wouldn't be led by someone as bad as Saddam?




This a poorly written paragraph so I'm having trouble ascertaining what your point is. If your point is that the US is most capable of waging war, and thus should lead any military action IF it were to take place in Iraq, I agree. This says absolutely nothing to the question of whether ANYONE should be there currently.

Quote:

The entire world, not just the US has an interest in iraqi oil. The US is going to go in and repair the degraded oil fields, then turn them over to the iraqi's. You're naive to think that US oil company's won't profit off of this,




You're worse than naive if you don't think the US oil companies are going to profit off this. If you can't even concede that you're an ignorant crusader who lives in a dream world. Thankfully even you are able to admit this. You don't seem to be able to grasp the extent of it however.

Quote:

but the US gets far less oil from iraq than most people seem to think, and there is no way that we could get away with stealing their oil, not with the whole world watching our every move. In the end this will greatly increase the entire world's oil supply, lowering gas prices worldwide, not just in the US.




It doesn't matter where the US gets our own supply from, the point here is that Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world. And now, American oil interests are going to be solely responsible for selling all of it to whoever they see fit. This is not us trying to "steal" their oil so we can burn it all ourselves. The oil companies are going to make more money than any of us have the ability to comprehend marking up the oil and selling it. I can't deny that gas prices will probably go down after the war. I guess that's one thing that makes you and me different. I have a serious ethical problem with killing thousands of people to lower the price of gas, you however do not.

Quote:

i really want to understand the point of view of the antiwar protestors, but they don't seem to get the big picture. They seem to base their arguments on these points:
1. Bush is evil. (while i don't totally disagree, this doesn't have anything to do with freeing iraq)
2. No war for oil. (this one is just stupid, see pt3)
3. war is bad. (well, of course it is, but it is sometimes necessary)
4. this will bring more terrorism (so? will doing nothing stop terrorism? in the short term, there may be more terror attacks, but a free, democratic, grateful iraq would be a huge asset in the war on terror, and help show the region that the US really isn't that bad.)




The protesters come from all backgrounds, they are all ages shapes, and sizes. Some are intelligent, some are stupid, some are ex-soldiers, some are there to meet girls, some simply can't think of any other way to react to what they see as a huge injustice. I've heard all of the arguments you mentioned above at protests, sure. I've heard a lot of other arguments from protesters as well. But in reality, that is totally irrelavant. We're talking about a war that is going to cost almost a hundred billion dollars, if not more, and thousands upon thousands of human lives. I for one would say that puts the burden of proof on the people who want to wage the war, not the people who are against it. And the idiot leaders of our country never did put together evidence to meet this burden of proof.

Quote:

n the end, i think the quote sums up my position pretty well, as long as their are evil dictators in the world, they will fund and support terrorism, and Saddam is just #1 on the list right now.




Wow, that's unbelievably deep. Do you make these incredibly insightful quotes up yourself?



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.... [Re: flow]
    #1440282 - 04/08/03 08:13 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

why not try to prove me wrong by giving some sort of evidence that one of my points is wrong. Or is it to hard for you?




Where'd you go? Have you got your little team of monkeys working on your response as I type this or what?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere...... [Re: flow]
    #1440303 - 04/08/03 08:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


so because they don't live in our country we shouldn't care about the people of iraq? oh, i get it. Let me ask you this. If you're neighbor abuses his kids, but does nothing to you, are you wrong to stop him?




Yet it's ok if America abuses Iraqi's kids. Iraq is not my neighbour, its not America's neighbor either.

Quote:


how about freeing the people who have been living under his boot? That was kind of my point, freeing the iraqi people, by itself is enough justification for this war.




How quickly Americans change their position, when their first position is proven lacking. I never thought of Iraq as an enslaved country, except as a slave to sanctions imposed by the superpowers of the world.

Quote:


see, the whole problem is that UN sanctions would have prevented this as long as saddam led the country. Obviously, no more oil was going to be allowed to leave iraq than UN sanctions permitted as long as the money would go to fund saddam's war machine, therefore, saddam needed to be removed for these oil fields to be repaired, therefore, this war was necessary to allow the entire world access to that oil.




It is about oil, then, according to you! The solution would have been, in this case, to end the sanctions. Sanctions can be removed peacefully.

Quote:


but I'm betting that terrorist attempts will increase.
please explain why.




Terrorists hate America. Now that even more people hate America, because of the invasion of Iraq, there will be an increase in terrorists.

Quote:


how is this an about face? is this war not called "operation iraqi freedom?"
has our gov't not made it clear that the goal of this war is a free, democratic iraq?




What is free about a country occupied by a foreign military? Calling it "operation freedom" doesn't make it so. Talk is cheap; I want results, not catchphrases. Since you are bringing them freedom, America will let Iraq continue using Euros as a reserve currency instead of US dollars? Will they also be able to choose who they will or will not give oil contracts to?

Quote:


yep, until we run out of dictators who suppress their people. think about it though, if we go through these countries one by one, and successfully turn them into democracies, won't that make the whole world a better place? I'm not naive enough to think this will bring about world peace, but can you think of a better way to start than removing evil dictators from power?




If you want world peace, and don't think your strategy will bring about world peace, then why do it?


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere...... [Re: flow]
    #1440310 - 04/08/03 08:24 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i've been around this forum a lot the past couple of weeks, and i still haven't come across a good argument for not going into iraq.

1. it will make us more vulnerable to terrorism.
2. it hurts the economy.
3. it erodes our relations with our allies and the international community.
4. it sets the precedent that for nations to 'pre-emptively strike' eachother is 'ok'.

i've yet to come across a good argument for going into iraq.

1. Saddam needs to be removed and this could not be done peacefully. Even if he is not an immediate threat to the US, only an idiot would say he is not a threat to the stability of the middle east, and the atrocities he's committed against his own people is enough to justify his removal.

why does he need to be removed? saying "only an idiot would say..." is a real shitty debate tactic by the way. atrocities against his own people? by that logic, there's about 20 countries in the world we should be invading BEFORE we even get around to iraq. and hussein is not a threat to middle eastern stability.

2. A US led invasion is the best way to do this to minimize the length of the war, the civilian casualiies, and the coallition casualities.

no, the best way is to not go to war in the first place. this argument doesn't make a case for the war in any way.

3. The entire world, not just the US has an interest in iraqi oil. The US is going to go in and repair the degraded oil fields, then turn them over to the iraqi's. You're naive to think that US oil company's won't profit off of this, but the US gets far less oil from iraq than most people seem to think, and there is no way that we could get away with stealing their oil, not with the whole world watching our every move. In the end this will greatly increase the entire world's oil supply, lowering gas prices worldwide, not just in the US.

the US doesn't want iraqi oil getting sold for euros. the us doesn't want hussien trying to form an arab union. the us doesn't want a leader in iraq who won't sign his nation's sovereignty over to the GATT. it's not just as simple as stealing their oil.

i really want to understand the point of view of the antiwar protestors, but they don't seem to get the big picture.

yes, unfortunately most of them aren't very good at making a compelling argument.

They seem to base their arguments on these points:
1. Bush is evil. (while i don't totally disagree, this doesn't have anything to do with freeing iraq)

yep. they say that alot. doesn't make a strong case.

2. No war for oil. (this one is just stupid, see pt3)

yes, they do oversimplify it and make it out like it's just about stealing oil. it's really more about SECURING oil.  :smirk:

4. this will bring more terrorism (so? will doing nothing stop terrorism? in the short term, there may be more terror attacks, but a free, democratic, grateful iraq would be a huge asset in the war on terror, and help show the region that the US really isn't that bad.)

this it to me is a good reason against the war. this war will increase anti-americanism and terrorist attacks without a doubt. whether a "free, democratic, grateful iraq" will emerge at the end of this is yet to be seen. we shall see.


I am not opposed to all wars. i think that if the government of a soveriegn nation attacks us or our allies, or sets up a truly evil regime, than we indeed should replace that government.

in the case of an attack on us or our allies, the case for war is pretty cut and dry.

attacking another nation in order to free its people from its government however, is a much cloudier issue.

i guess what it all comes down to is, just how bad is saddam's government?

i would argue that he's not nearly as bad as he has been made out to be, and that we're just selectively attacking him for a host of alterior motives. 


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.... [Re: flow]
    #1440363 - 04/08/03 08:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

is this war not called "operation iraqi freedom?




HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA

I'm not gonna call you any names, but I'll tell you something you obviously are NOT: smart. That's all.

It's called Operation Iraqi Freedom people! That means it's about freeing the Iraqis and nothing else, obviously!

Oh my God....


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAngry Mycologist
Spontaneouslycombusting

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 1,282
Loc: Galapagos
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere...... [Re: flow]
    #1440395 - 04/08/03 08:50 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

A nation should never play the roll of the crusader, for what they advocate is just that, violence used to achieve certain ideals.

A nation does not garner respect in this way, only respect out of fear.


--------------------
The proper penalty of ignorance, which is of course that those who don't know should learn from those who do... - Plato


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.... [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1440405 - 04/08/03 08:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

It is better to be feared and respected than to be loved.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.... [Re: z@z.com]
    #1440408 - 04/08/03 08:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

It is best to be feared, respected, and loved.  :tongue:


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* "The Threat of Global Terrorism" - Tony Blair
( 1 2 all )
Phred 2,066 20 03/14/04 02:45 PM
by silversoul7
* On Terrorism and the War Against it
( 1 2 3 4 all )
PedM 3,930 68 07/12/05 07:22 PM
by Los_Pepes
* Can Terrorists Build the Bomb? trendalM 681 1 02/18/05 11:28 PM
by automan
* Shock Horrror! Rumsfeld a terrorist? Visionary Tools 1,372 16 11/07/07 05:56 PM
by Luddite
* The Threat Posed by Islam
( 1 2 3 4 ... 15 16 all )
unbeliever
18,140 300 01/25/07 09:26 AM
by Alex213
* Iraq is battlefield for war vs. terror wingnutx 576 4 08/25/03 01:58 PM
by Dava
* Is Obama a Terrorist?
( 1 2 3 all )
lonestar2004 3,416 59 01/29/09 12:32 PM
by TGRR
* War on Terrorism Tax
( 1 2 3 all )
MushmanTheManic 3,037 42 02/23/07 10:42 PM
by bluedolphin

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
2,198 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Edabea
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.17 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 16 queries.