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OfflineEllis Dee
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Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,093
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My thoughts, Iraq, war, and genocide
    #1383871 - 03/17/03 12:16 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Genocide and forced relocations have marked some of the darkest chapters in human history. An uncle of mine, Leonard, was in a NAZI prison camp. In the camp there were 50 or so barricks type buildings which each housed 75 or so men. He arrived with a group of other men and was assigned quarters in one of the barricks. The guards had to constantly kill a certain number of prisoners to make room for the new arrivals. One day they began executing the men in his barricks. Two nazi guards would come in and take a man out and you'de hear a shot, you knew what happened. A couple minutes later they came back and got another man, they took him. You heard another shot. A couple minutes later they came and got another man, same thing, they took him and you heard a shot 2 minutes later. They were executing them all. My uncle Leonard and about ten other men jumped those two guards when they came back in, they killed them and made a run for it. They escaped and a few were shot in the back while escaping the death camp. My Uncle made it out alive and escaped through the woods not knowing where he was going. He eventually hooked up with the French underground and was helped back to allied lines. My family was releaved to get a telegram from the war department that he was alive and in a allied hospital where he'de be until he could rejoin his unit. You see, everyone thought he was dead, because there had been a telegram 4 months earlier that he was missing in action. You can't imagine the joy and relief they felt.

The other night on a political debating show I saw a woman arguing that Saddam being a bad man and genocide didnt justify a war. At that statement my heart changed. My eyes welled up and my blood boiled and I'm sure the expression on my face changed to that of bitter hatred. This hits very close to home to me, being jewish, and having a relaticve, a soldier and a jew in a NAZI prison camp. This changed my outlook on the whole matter. If these sons of bitches don't think genocide is a reason to go to war then there's no reason in the world to go to war.

I'm not in favor of the war or against it really, but right now I'm hoping that if it will avert genocide that it will happen soon. Never again. I'm just frustrated right now.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: My thoughts, Iraq, war, and genocide [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1383886 - 03/17/03 12:20 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

But what if by going to war, we trigger the very events we are trying to prevent?

This is the dilemma for me so I can't support or oppose the war. I'm just hoping for the best, either way.


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OfflineRemy
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Registered: 06/04/02
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Re: My thoughts, Iraq, war, and genocide [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1384097 - 03/17/03 01:11 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

This war will be genocide.


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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: My thoughts, Iraq, war, and genocide [Re: Remy]
    #1384183 - 03/17/03 01:39 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Lots of innocent people die in war too, can you justify their deaths because it was in retaliation to murder? How does that make you any better? How do you stop a vicious cycle of violence and war by killing more people?


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The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: My thoughts, Iraq, war, and genocide [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1384199 - 03/17/03 01:46 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

This reply is to many who post on this site.

Stop with the hyperbole. Sentences such as this war will be genocide, we'll target innocent civilians, Bush is satan, and the like make those who write that look, quite frankly, like idiots.

I see you all have concerns. Some valid, some foolish. But please.... stop the fucking exaggerations.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/17/03 02:19 PM)


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: My thoughts, Iraq, war, and genocide [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1384294 - 03/17/03 02:15 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

First of all, lets assume that "collateral damage" really can be avoided. Now, if the behaviour of the CIA in Afghanistan is any indication, those civilians will wish they had been collateral damage. The war against the Taliban in Afghanistan did not end torture and genocide there; and there is no reason to believe it will be any different in Iraq. One can only argue that war is justified to stop crimes against humanity in progress when the "liberators" are not themselves bent on comitting the same crimes like they were in Afghanistan.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (03/17/03 02:24 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: My thoughts, Iraq, war, and genocide [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1384405 - 03/17/03 02:45 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

It must be understood that going to war for justice will never end in peace. Justice is something that can be interpretted in many different ways. No more right than the other. As long as we act in the name of justice others will see it as an injustice and what they do in retaliation is RIGHT to them. Can't we understand that we are all humans with different cultures not evil/bad people. "Kill now son, and peace will come" has been said to every boy that was asked to fight for whatever reason. One day we will stop going to war for "justified" reasons and peace will be achieved, until then let the GENOCIDE continue......


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Offlineupupup
guardian

Registered: 08/25/01
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Loc: George "I love Hitler" Bu...
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: My thoughts, Iraq, war, and genocide [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1385233 - 03/17/03 06:20 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I understand where your coming from. I too have Jewish ancestory and have had relatives killed because they were Jewish including my grandfather who was refused treatment in a Catholic hospital because he refused to take communion.

I don't know if this helps but I try to look at the whole picture. I try to remember where Saddam got the stuff to gas the Kurds with. I try to keep perspective and your posts have aided my perspective greatly. The link to the stuff about the UK and thier proclivity to using gas on the Iraqis long ago is now part of my perspective. I see third world countries like Iraq simply wanting to be like those "wealthy, advanced" contries and just doing the same thing they see us do.

As a father, I know that children learn from example. As far as I am concerned I see the third world contries as being almost child like in thier efforts to recreate the American lifestyle. That is why I am so disgusted with all of this mess. We are just setting up reasons for countries to act stupid in the future.....

Keep breathing and ShalOM.........


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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: My thoughts, Iraq, war, and genocide [Re: ]
    #1385254 - 03/17/03 06:23 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

LoOnEr writes:

It must be understood that going to war for justice will never end in peace.

Ummm... you have heard of World War II, haven't you?

pinky


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
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Loc: Traped in a shell.
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Re: My thoughts, Iraq, war, and genocide [Re: upupup]
    #1385312 - 03/17/03 06:38 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I think this war will be the extant of Dubya's 'war mongering'. I highly doubt we could do the same thing to another country after this. Don't fret.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
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Re: My thoughts, Iraq, war, and genocide [Re: Murex]
    #1385611 - 03/17/03 07:53 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

"It must be understood that going to war for justice will never end in peace.

Ummm... you have heard of World War II, haven't you?"


That conflict is still playing out in some ways... WW2 led to Israel led to more middle eastern conflict leading to sept 11...

Oh wait, I forgot sept 11 was just because the arabs were jealous.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhred
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Male

Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: My thoughts, Iraq, war, and genocide [Re: Phluck]
    #1385681 - 03/17/03 08:17 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Phluck writes:

That conflict is still playing out in some ways... WW2 led to Israel led to more middle eastern conflict leading to sept 11...

And it also led to the Soviets enslaving half of Europe. What's your point?

pinky


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Offlinezeronio
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Registered: 10/16/01
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Re: My thoughts, Iraq, war, and genocide [Re: Phred]
    #1386035 - 03/17/03 10:06 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

The Iraqui & Turkish genocide on the Kurds is not the reason for this war. It will continue after it, since Turkey is a friend.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
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Re: My thoughts, Iraq, war, and genocide [Re: Phred]
    #1386098 - 03/17/03 10:40 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

WWII was not a war waged on the back of lies and exageration. It also had the support of all our allies. There is no comparison.
Bush is using the idea of justice as part of his smokescreen for the real reasons he is waging this war.


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Always Smi2le


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Anonymous

Re: My thoughts, Iraq, war, and genocide [Re: Phred]
    #1386753 - 03/18/03 06:11 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Ummm... you have heard of World War II, haven't you?

Its a shame the people of germany were brainwashed into believing they were doing something good.


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