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OfflineLearyfanS
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Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil
    #1608688 - 06/04/03 07:03 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Story

I don't understand how Bush is letting Wolfowitz get away with this.

Will he be fired?







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Mp3 of the month:  The Looking Glasses - Visions



Edited by Rono (06/04/03 07:28 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: Learyfan]
    #1608694 - 06/04/03 07:05 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

As long as the Guardian is the only source reporting this, then no one will really care.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: Learyfan]
    #1608713 - 06/04/03 07:09 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I hate to say "I told you right-wingers so" but...no actually I don't hate it at all....I'm revelling in the moment. An actual member of the administration is admitting it IS "All about the oil"... my mission here is complete .


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (06/04/03 07:22 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: Rono]
    #1608730 - 06/04/03 07:12 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Somehow, I suspect that even this won't affect Bush's popularity. America hasn't gotten outraged at anything their government did in a good long while, even while being screwed over more than they have in years.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: Learyfan]
    #1608758 - 06/04/03 07:18 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Apparently Wolfowitz has lost his patience with dimplomacy and bureaucracy--there are several more major wars to hold to achieve the neoconservative project for world supremacy ( http://www.newamericancentury.org/ ), and he could be right that it's unrealistic to think they can keep finding "hysterical" motives to win domestic and international support, war after war. Better to put everything on the table and hope there are enough U.S. citizens who go along. That way the same reason--economic significance ("we just have no choice") will serve every time.

And to hell with the rest of the world. We don't need them, they need US, man!


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: hongomon]
    #1608774 - 06/04/03 07:23 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Next stop...Saudi Arabia.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (06/04/03 09:29 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: Rono]
    #1608828 - 06/04/03 07:42 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I have to say, this surprised even me. Even I didn't think this war could actually be ALL about oil, but apparently it was.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisible1stimer
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: Learyfan]
    #1608923 - 06/04/03 08:16 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

any other sources for this info?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: Learyfan]
    #1608949 - 06/04/03 08:23 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Isn't the Guardian the paper that even Alpo laughs at?

Lets see it in a more credible source with another White House member confirming.

Or do "libbies" believe everything they read without confirmation?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisible1stimer
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1608961 - 06/04/03 08:26 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

"Or do "libbies" believe everything they read without confirmation?"
Hello!! What am I?


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1608969 - 06/04/03 08:29 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I've searched other news sources and none of them other than the Guardian have this story, so I'll withhold judgement on this one.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinerommstein2001
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: silversoul7]
    #1608989 - 06/04/03 08:38 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Hmm... fishy. Not the most objective news source ya know. Well I'll go and try to verify this.


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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1608992 - 06/04/03 08:39 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I think you're thinking of a different paper. The Guardian has to be the best newspaper in the UK.


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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: Revelation]
    #1608995 - 06/04/03 08:39 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Come on, man! Even I can see their liberal bias.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: 1stimer]
    #1609004 - 06/04/03 08:42 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

"Or do "libbies" believe everything they read without confirmation?"
Hello!! What am I?



1. I didn't respond to you.
2. Libbies is in quotes indicating a good natured poke at libbies in general.

Therefore.... it doesn't matter what you are.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: silversoul7]
    #1609043 - 06/04/03 08:56 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Good idea, actually. Anyone here read German?

The latest comments were made by Mr Wolfowitz in an address to delegates at an Asian security summit in Singapore at the weekend, and reported today by German newspapers Der Tagesspiegel and Die Welt.


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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: hongomon]
    #1609052 - 06/04/03 08:59 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

My German's a little rusty, but I might be able to handle it.


--------------------


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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: silversoul7]
    #1609061 - 06/04/03 09:01 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

It is a left wing paper, but:

"Let's look at it simply. The most important difference between North Korea and Iraq is that economically, we just had no choice in Iraq. The country swims on a sea of oil."

That doesn't leave much room for bias, IMO.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: Revelation]
    #1609093 - 06/04/03 09:15 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

If it wasn't for an American named Ford, all these mid-east royal fuckers would be sitting on sand selling sand and eating sand to survive. Thanks to Ford and the write bros we put these dudes on the map and made them rich. And as usual we feed em and they bite our hand.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1609129 - 06/04/03 09:36 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't say that I believe it 100%. In fact I had a hard time believing it because it should be a major story.

I agree with Revelation though, that if Wolfowitz was quoted accurately, then that doesn't leave much room for bias.




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Mp3 of the month:  The Looking Glasses - Visions



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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: Learyfan]
    #1609143 - 06/04/03 09:40 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Ya, I'm pretty sure it doesn't reflect the opinion of the whole administration, but if that quote was correct, then I bet old Wolfie will be losing his job pretty soons.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: Learyfan]
    #1609186 - 06/04/03 09:59 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

i won't be surprised if a hundred years from now these are called "The Oil Wars".


Edited by mushmaster (06/04/03 09:59 PM)


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: Learyfan]
    #1609197 - 06/04/03 10:06 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I think he's been taken slightly out of context with this one. There's a transcript of the discussion here which shows that he did indeed say that. I'll post his entire answer though:

Q:? What I meant is that essentially North Korea is being taken more seriously because it has become a nuclear power by its own admission, whether or not that's true, and that the lesson that people will have is that in the case of Iraq it became imperative to confront Iraq militarily because it had banned weapons systems and posed a danger to the region.? In the case of North Korea, which has nuclear weapons as well as other banned weapons of mass destruction, apparently it is imperative not to confront, to persuade and to essentially maintain a regime that is just as appalling as the Iraqi regime in place, for the sake of the stability of the region.? To other countries of the world this is a very mixed message to be sending out.

Wolfowitz:? The concern about implosion is not primarily at all a matter of the weapons that North Korea has, but a fear particularly by South Korea and also to some extent China of what the larger implications are for them of having 20 million people on their borders in a state of potential collapse and anarchy.? It's is also a question of whether, if one wants to persuade the regime to change, whether you have to find -- and I think you do -- some kind of outcome that is acceptable to them.? But that outcome has to be acceptable to us, and it has to include meeting our non-proliferation goals.

???? Look, the primarily difference -- to put it a little too simply -- between North Korea and Iraq is that we had virtually no economic options with Iraq because the country floats on a sea of oil.? In the case of North Korea, the country is teetering on the edge of economic collapse and that I believe is a major point of leverage whereas the military picture with North Korea is very different from that with Iraq.? The problems in both cases have some similarities but the solutions have got to be tailored to the circumstances which are very different.


Although I think he's been taken out of context, I still don't agree with what he's saying at all. To me he seems to be saying that N. Korea doesn't need force because it's on the verge of collapse, but that Iraq did need it because they were sitting on a huge pile of potential revenue that could be used against the US. He seems to have forgotten about the crippling 12-year sanctions that leave nearly 80% of Iraqis needing aid handouts.

#edit#
Actually, the more I read it, the less sure I am of exactly what he means. Anyone else have any ideas?


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Edited by Edame (06/04/03 10:11 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: Edame]
    #1609203 - 06/04/03 10:09 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Excellent detective work, Edame!  I gave you 5 shrooms for that.  :cool:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: Edame]
    #1609216 - 06/04/03 10:14 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


#edit#
Actually, the more I read it, the less sure I am of exactly what he means. Anyone else have any ideas?




It means that he thinks we can make N. Korea colapse from within as it is about to do anyway.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: z@z.com]
    #1609353 - 06/04/03 10:59 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Look, the primarily difference -- to put it a little too simply -- between North Korea and Iraq is that we had virtually no economic options with Iraq because the country floats on a sea of oil. In the case of North Korea, the country is teetering on the edge of economic collapse and that I believe is a major point of leverage whereas the military picture with North Korea is very different from that with Iraq. The problems in both cases have some similarities but the solutions have got to be tailored to the circumstances which are very different.


Just sounds like politician talk to the effect of "It was/is/will be all about the oil"


--------------------
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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1609803 - 06/05/03 01:32 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Isn't the Guardian the paper that even Alpo laughs at?

Nope. You must have dreamed that one luv.


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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: Xlea321]
    #1610527 - 06/05/03 05:42 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Dreamed? No.

Which British paper was the one you laughed at when I posted one of it's articles?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1611389 - 06/05/03 02:38 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

The Guardian have now had to post a correction to this article, as they did indeed quote him out of context. This is one of two corrections they have made today (it's really not their day). They are still my preferred UK news source, but as with everything I process, I don't take it as 'truth'.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Edited by Edame (06/05/03 02:40 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: Edame]
    #1611448 - 06/05/03 02:46 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the corrections link. By reading them I was able to discover this.....
The glands present in pig jowl - which is used to make cheap sausages - are the parotid salivary glands and not the pituitary glands (the Food supplement, page 12 onwards, May 10). Pituitary glands are found not in the jowl but at the base of the brain.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1611481 - 06/05/03 02:52 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

The funny thing about this is I've seen so many "libbies" here slam people for believing every thing they read.

Along comes an article like this one and all the America haters are so fucking quick to swallow it hook, line, and sinker.

Here's the original correction for those too lazy or dishonest to go look.

"A report which was posted on our website on June 4 under the heading "Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil" misconstrued remarks made by the US deputy defence secretary, Paul Wolfowitz, making it appear that he had said that oil was the main reason for going to war in Iraq. He did not say that. He said, according to the Department of Defence website, "The ... difference between North Korea and Iraq is that we had virtually no economic options with Iraq because the country floats on a sea of oil. In the case of North Korea, the country is teetering on the edge of economic collapse and that I believe is a major point of leverage whereas the military picture with North Korea is very different from that with Iraq." The sense was clearly that the US had no economic options by means of which to achieve its objectives, not that the economic value of the oil motivated the war. The report appeared only on the website and has now been removed."

You guys are both laughable.... and predictable.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: Rono]
    #1611518 - 06/05/03 02:58 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I hate to say "I told you right-wingers so" but...no actually I don't hate it at all....I'm revelling in the moment. An actual member of the administration is admitting it IS "All about the oil"... my mission here is complete .




Excuse me but.......

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1611571 - 06/05/03 03:08 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Which British paper was the one you laughed at when I posted one of it's articles?

The Sun?


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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1611575 - 06/05/03 03:09 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Its ALL about the profit then... :smirk:


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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1611717 - 06/05/03 03:33 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hate to say "I told you right-wingers so" but...no actually I don't hate it at all....I'm revelling in the moment. An actual member of the administration is admitting it IS "All about the oil"... my mission here is complete .


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Excuse me but.......

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! 




Laugh it up Luvy...but I suspect that deep down, even you know that I am right.  :smirk:


--------------------
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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war WAS about oil [Re: Xlea321]
    #1611749 - 06/05/03 03:39 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Which British paper was the one you laughed at when I posted one of it's articles?

The Sun?



That could be it I guess. Can't find the original and don't care enough to look right now.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: Rono]
    #1611775 - 06/05/03 03:45 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Suspect anything you wish oh he who's so quick to assume the worst when it comes to the US but rarely mentions the doings of other countries.
Hmmmm, I'll just call you H.W.S.Q.T.A.T.W.W.I.C.T.T.U.B.R.M.T.D.O.O.C. for short.

Hmmmm again..... not much better.

As I said the first time you put forth your *snort*.... theory, oil may be one reason, but not the only and not the foremost.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1611807 - 06/05/03 03:53 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

At least you are now admitting that oil is a reason...and I will concede that it is probably not the only reason...but it seems pretty obvious to most that it is the primary reason.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1611814 - 06/05/03 03:55 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

As I said the first time you put forth your *snort*.... theory, oil may be one reason, but not the only and not the foremost.

Of course not. Everyone knows WMD were the foremost reason...


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: Rono]
    #1611907 - 06/05/03 04:22 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

You have a very convenient memory as I said that long ago in one of your 12, 673 posts on this very subject.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: Rono]
    #1611927 - 06/05/03 04:31 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Seems like all he's saying is that oil was a factor, not a reason.

Seems hardly worth an "AH-HA!".


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1612062 - 06/05/03 05:17 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

AH-HA!

So you're saying that he's saying that oil was a factor!




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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: Learyfan]
    #1612381 - 06/05/03 07:17 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, so was sand.


--------------------
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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1612714 - 06/05/03 09:09 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

So was world domination.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1612859 - 06/05/03 09:54 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I'll just call you H.W.S.Q.T.A.T.W.W.I.C.T.T.U.B.R.M.T.D.O.O.C. for short.




That was actually pretty funny :grin: 


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Offlinerecalcitrant
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Re: Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil [Re: ]
    #1655181 - 06/23/03 03:08 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

its not about oil. its about preserving the american way of life and economy through the control of oil. Bush wont bend for saddam anymore.


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We have to answer our own prayers


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