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Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia"
    #13774638 -

All right, first off, let's try to keep this civil, I have a feeling that this discussion could get a bit heated.  Was motivated to write this after reading about the shooting in Arizona and how the shooter was a smoker and a schizophrenic, hence the endless battle of correlation and causation was reinvigorated.

Most people on this forum (myself included) know of the link between marijuana and schizophrenia.  Those with schizophrenia are more likely to smoke and marijuana seems to exacerbate symptoms.  Fact.  Most of us dismiss this evidence as being correlatory and causatory (yes those are made up words).  This would further stipulate that people predisposed to schizophrenia enjoy marijuana more than regular users, however, the evidence that marijuana exacerbates symptoms makes this somewhat suspect.

Essentially, we know that the correlation exist and I'm trying to decide if there is causality and/or why it exist?  Furthermore, any ideas on why the causality is there? 

Added a pole also...
Does marijuana cause schizophrenia and/or other psychiatric disorders
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from 01/12/11 01:05 PM until the end of time

View the results of this poll



--------------------
Do what you will, this world's a fiction
And is made up of contradiction
-William Blake

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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: EyelessVagabond]
    #13774651 -

Anyone who votes other than "maybe" is lying to themselves.  :thumbup:

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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #13774709 -

It's a fact that MJ causes random shooting.  Don't fool yourself.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: Icelander]
    #13774733 -

I voted no, it isn't even correlated.


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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13774744 -

Shrooms cause random hand grenading. Don't fool yourself.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: Icelander]
    #13774757 -

Shrooms make you gay.  Everybody knows that.  Sheesh.


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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13774822 -

zappaisgod said:
I voted no, it isn't even correlated.

You're saying that not a single schizo smoked weed before s/he became a schizo? :jimcarreysplit:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: EyelessVagabond]
    #13774826 -

No (It's just correlated)

More specifically, I would bet the correlation is the reverse.  It is not uncommon for schizophrenics to attempt to self-medicate, both with legal and illegal drugs.  Furthermore, there is interesting evidence that a certain chemical in cannabis(not THC) has anti-psychotic properties, so such self-medication may actually be useful.


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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13774941 -

zappaisgod said:
Shrooms make you gay.  Everybody knows that.  Sheesh.



You're a big fan of shrooms right?:wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: Poid]
    #13774982 -

Poid said:
zappaisgod said:
I voted no, it isn't even correlated.

You're saying that not a single schizo smoked weed before s/he became a schizo? :jimcarreysplit:


Nope.  If that were the case there would be a correlation.


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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13775009 -

zappaisgod said:
Poid said:
zappaisgod said:
I voted no, it isn't even correlated.

You're saying that not a single schizo smoked weed before s/he became a schizo? :jimcarreysplit:


Nope.

How on Earth can you possibly know that? Have you met every single schizo that has ever existed (including those who were deceased before you were born)? Did you somehow constantly follow each one around simultaneously to make sure that they didn't smoke weed?


zappaisgod said:
If that were the case there would be a correlation.

Derr.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: Silversoul]
    #13775204 -

Silversoul said:
It is not uncommon for schizophrenics to attempt to self-medicate, both with legal and illegal drugs.


I believe many schizophrenics actually self-medicate with tobacco.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: Poid]
    #13775501 -

zappaisgod said:
Poid said:
zappaisgod said:
I voted no, it isn't even correlated.

You're saying that not a single schizo smoked weed before s/he became a schizo? :jimcarreysplit:


Nope.  If that were the case there would be a correlation.


Poid said:
zappaisgod said:
Poid said:
zappaisgod said:
I voted no, it isn't even correlated.

You're saying that not a single schizo smoked weed before s/he became a schizo? :jimcarreysplit:


Nope.

How on Earth can you possibly know that? Have you met every single schizo that has ever existed (including those who were deceased before you were born)? Did you somehow constantly follow each one around simultaneously to make sure that they didn't smoke weed?


zappaisgod said:
If that were the case there would be a correlation.

Derr.


Is English your first language?  You asked if I was saying something.  I said "nope".  Then you said something that led me to believe that you don't know what the fuck the word correlation means.  Did you have good dictionary fun in between those posts?


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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13775648 -

Hmm, I've kept on looking around and found this (quite easily) http://science.iowamedicalmarijuana.org/pdfs/psych/Schwarcz%202009.pdf, which basically states that synthetic marijuana improved schizophrenic symptoms.  As for stating that their is no correlation, not quite right.  There is ample evidence that individuals with schizophrenia have much higher rates of drug "abuse" including marijuana.

As someone else mentioned, could just be a reflection of individuals trying to self medicate.  Tell you what, ain't no way that marijuana is any worse than some of those antipsychotics that they put people on now.  Be interesting to see where this goes.  Anyone here have schizophrenia and experience with this matter?


--------------------
Do what you will, this world's a fiction
And is made up of contradiction
-William Blake

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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13775655 -

zappaisgod said:
Is English your first language?

Yes, and I'm awfully proficient at it. :mexican:


zappaisgod said:
You asked if I was saying something.  I said "nope".

I assumed you meant "Nope, not a single schizo has smoked weed before s/he became a schizo." because your 'nope' was followed by your implication that there is no correlation; what I am misunderstanding here is not the English language, but what you're trying to say. If you're saying "Nope, I'm not saying that not a single schizo has ever smoked weed before s/he became a schizo." (which means you're implying that it's possible that there is a correlation between marijuana and schizophrenia), then you're contradicting yourself by saying "If that were the case there would be a correlation." (you're implying there that there is no correlation between marijuana schizophrenia).

I didn't assume that you were the type of person who contradicts himself, my bad. :shrug2:


zappaisgod said:
Then you said something that led me to believe that you don't know what the fuck the word correlation means.

Yeah, what was that?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: Poid]
    #13775776 -

Poid said:
zappaisgod said:
Is English your first language?

Yes, and I'm awfully proficient at it. :mexican:


zappaisgod said:
You asked if I was saying something.  I said "nope".

I assumed you meant "Nope, not a single schizo has smoked weed before s/he became a schizo." because your 'nope' was followed by your implication that there is no correlation; what I am misunderstanding here is not the English language, but what you're trying to say. If you're saying "Nope, I'm not saying that not a single schizo has ever smoked weed before s/he became a schizo." (which means you're implying that it's possible that there is a correlation between marijuana and schizophrenia), then you're contradicting yourself by saying "If that were the case there would be a correlation." (you're implying there that there is no correlation between marijuana schizophrenia).

I didn't assume that you were the type of person who contradicts himself, my bad. :shrug2:


zappaisgod said:
Then you said something that led me to believe that you don't know what the fuck the word correlation means.

Yeah, what was that?


Quote:
Have you met every single schizo that has ever existed (including those who were deceased before you were born)? Did you somehow constantly follow each one around simultaneously to make sure that they didn't smoke weed?



Firstly, to establish a correlation you do not have to monitor every schizo or every potsmoker 24/7.  Samples, child, samples.  First stupid point by you.  Second stupid point, by you, is that even if I did monitor every schizo and every potsmoker 24/7 and found zero overlap that, too, would be a correlation.

Your assertion of English proficiency is suspect at best.  Your understanding of social science methodology is also weak.


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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13775874 -

zappaisgod said:
Firstly, to establish a correlation you do not have to monitor every schizo or every potsmoker 24/7.

Sure (that wasn't my point BTW), but to establish that there is definitely no correlation (which is what you seem to be asserting), you would need to prove that not a single schizo has ever smoked pot, and that nobody who has ever smoked pot has succumbed to schizophrenia--the only way to prove that would be to monitor each individual from both groups.


zappaisgod said:
Second stupid point, by you, is that even if I did monitor every schizo and every potsmoker 24/7 and found zero overlap that, too, would be a correlation.

Where did I say or imply that?


zappaisgod said:
Your assertion of English proficiency is suspect at best.  Your understanding of social science methodology is also weak.

Your understanding of the forum rules is faulty. :smirk:


...leave the folks you're talking to personally out of the discussion.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: Poid] * 1
    #13775985 -

Pointing out that your assertion of English proficiency is demonstrably false and that you appear to have no understanding of social science statistical methodology is not a personalism.  They are statements of fact.


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Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: Poid] * 2
    #13776017 -

I'm afraid you're out gunned here poid my dear.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Correlation & Causation "Marijuana to Schizophrenia" [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #13776184 -

zappaisgod said:
Pointing out that your assertion of English proficiency is demonstrably false and that you appear to have no understanding of social science statistical methodology is not a personalism.

I agree that your statement "Your assertion of English proficiency is suspect at best." is not a personalism, since it is about my assertion. However, since your other statement, "Your understanding of social science methodology is also weak.", is about me and my understanding, it is a personalism.


zappaisgod said:
They are statements of fact.

Care to support those "factual" statements with some examples? Where have I demonstrated that I am not proficient at English? Your opinion that I appear to have no understanding of social science statistical methodology is based on two false points that you have erroneously attributed to me (that you have to monitor every schizo or every potsmoker 24/7 to establish a correlation between schizophrenia and pot smoking, & that if you did monitor every schizo and every potsmoker 24/7 and found zero overlap, that would be a correlation).


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (01/12/11 05:42 PM)

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