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Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy

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The Term "supernatural" is really "Natural."
    #13015349 -

I have been hashing this idea out for a long time, as I am sure that most of you have too. It is in regards to the term "supernatural." I've decided that the term is especially painful for rational thinkers, but it is also painful for spiritual and religious thinkers. One of the main problems with the word "supernatural" is that when someone mentions God, "supernatural" generally accompanies it, unless the person who receives the sentence with "God" in it has had time to think about all of the implications. Since I've saved the word "god," yet have dispensed with the word "supernatural," where does this leave my philosophy? Is it possible to believe in a God that is not supernatural? I'd say maybe. Here's why.

1. if God exists and is "supernatural" you have to deal with the paradox of God creating a "natural" world, for if God created nature doesn't that make God "natural?"

2. Even if MIRACLES occur, how are they "supernatural" occurrences, if anything that happens in a "natural" world is indeed "natural"?

3. Another issue is the mind-body problem. If we have a brain and a mind also, where is the mind located? Is it in a "supernatural" realm. This would be illogical because then you have the paradox of connecting the supernatural world to the natural, thus canceling out any semblance of the "supernatural."

4. Since I believe "God" exists and I've dispensed with the term supernatural, that means my God must be of the natural world, or be the "natural" world itself.

Does this make my notion of God void? Or do I continue on to redefine God in my own way?

These are just a few things to kick this into gear, and they go on and on ad infinitum.

My logic dictates that it is impossible to have anything supernatural that truly impinges on the natural, because then there's no need to call something supernatural.

Just trying to spur some ideas. Thoughts?


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No trees were harmed in the writing of this signature; however, millions of electrons were mildly inconvenienced.

Edited by AnxietyDrive (08/07/10 12:42 AM)

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Re: The Term "supernatural" is really "Natural." [Re: AnxietyDrive]
    #13015908 -

Everyone who believes in god does it in their own way. This speaks volumes to me. To dispense with god altogether is where the courage is imo. It's not needed if you can accept "nature" as it is.

As everyone must know by now I think the god belief is rooted in death anxiety. Humans need to feel supernatural or somehow immune to the biological realities apparent in the natural process. Hard to accept that ones essence is not real and ends with decay and death.

One thing here is that people who stick around long enough to have a bunch of posts usually give the game away as to what really motivates them no matter what they may say in individual posts.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Term "supernatural" is really "Natural." [Re: Icelander]
    #13015924 -

Quote:
if God exists and is "supernatural" you have to deal with the paradox of God creating a "natural" world, for if God created nature doesn't that make God "natural?



No, why would it make him "natural"? I don't see any paradox.

Quote:
Even if MIRACLES occur, how are they "supernatural" occurrences, if anything that happens in a "natural" world is indeed "natural"?


The event itself is natural, it's cause is supernatural.

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Re: The Term "supernatural" is really "Natural." [Re: AlexD]
    #13016081 -

Agreed with OP. As everything comes from nature, nothing can be "supernatural". It's all but nature, there is nothing else. Everything that would be supernatural like "lightning bolts" are just things of nature that have yet to be explained.

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Re: The Term "supernatural" is really "Natural." [Re: Diaboleros]
    #13019898 -

Does this fall within pantheism ?


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The arrogant cat stalks the humble mouse, the self important dog chases away the cat and is in turn unable to stand it's ground against the Proud lion. Then the lion is almost trampled underfoot of the enlightened elephant, who surprisingly and paradoxically yields to the humble mouse.

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Re: The Term "supernatural" is really "Natural." [Re: Brainstem]
    #13019922 -

Brainstem said:
Does this fall within pantheism ?


Or panpsychism, depending on how you want to color or taint your worldview.

Hell, for a materialistic vision of God we could use computer metaphors - like pancomputationalism.

Personally, I've built a very body centric philosophy, that also works as a theory of personality...but I'm afraid to expose my own, unique philosophies for fear that some fucker will steal them. Call this arrogant or pretentious if you want. I call this smart. :lol:


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No trees were harmed in the writing of this signature; however, millions of electrons were mildly inconvenienced.

Edited by AnxietyDrive (08/08/10 12:13 AM)

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Re: The Term "supernatural" is really "Natural." [Re: AnxietyDrive]
    #13019942 -

Is it realy that competitive ?

shouldn't have posted ouroboros on a lolly pop stick.:rolleyes:


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The arrogant cat stalks the humble mouse, the self important dog chases away the cat and is in turn unable to stand it's ground against the Proud lion. Then the lion is almost trampled underfoot of the enlightened elephant, who surprisingly and paradoxically yields to the humble mouse.

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Re: The Term "supernatural" is really "Natural." [Re: Brainstem]
    #13019950 -

Well, competition has nothing to do with it. Anybody can steal something and use it, no matter how much of a doof they are. I mean, obviously I share a lot of my ideas, but there's some that I really like and I feel like giving them away to people on a forum would be the equivalent of giving away my virginity to an ugly hooker.

Anyway, this is way off topic. What do you think about the notion of God without the supernatural explanation impinging on "its" existence?


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No trees were harmed in the writing of this signature; however, millions of electrons were mildly inconvenienced.

Edited by AnxietyDrive (08/08/10 12:20 AM)

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Re: The Term "supernatural" is really "Natural." [Re: AnxietyDrive]
    #13020197 -

I think people use the word to describe things that seem to have no source/cause and  hence an inexplicable event, this is applied to paranormal too. If we reverse the cause/effect perception, it would equate to firing a gun over your shoulder and ignoring the effect, or making oneself less aware of the effect (does that make sense). I'm a huge fan of Lyall Watson, and in particular his book 'Supernature' the implication of the title being the overall sum of the natural world and the tag line "science is stranger than the supernatural", He's a clever guy. As you can see from my ourob post I don't lean towards effects with an externalized cause, the cause may be removed from the system within which the effect manifests, but it is likely only to be part of a bigger system or information/potential exchange with another system. You only have to examine space, we have our earth, a brilliant system, but effects are manifest here by the sun (which we understand and accept), but a comet or meteorite entering our space, maybe even colliding with earth would seem to have no cause to those less familiar with comets and their orbit (1066, comet appears in the sky over Europe and William the conqueror sees it as a good omen, ahead of his invasion). If we take the Earth as a midpoint in the scale of the loop system, you can see the growth of the system as we get further out from the Sun and individual planetary systems to the solar system which encompasses all of these. Then we have galaxies and so on. If we go the other way we have the Earth, weather systems effected by an outside cause, tidal systems again with an external source (I would classify the moon as borderline external, but it is under the influence of the Earth), then we have geological systems, and organic organisms.


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The arrogant cat stalks the humble mouse, the self important dog chases away the cat and is in turn unable to stand it's ground against the Proud lion. Then the lion is almost trampled underfoot of the enlightened elephant, who surprisingly and paradoxically yields to the humble mouse.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Term "supernatural" is really "Natural." [Re: Brainstem]
    #13020286 -

And if the possibility of a system external to the universe or existing as the other half of the universe (external) is nagging at you, then look at this:
This is something else I read in a L.Watson book, Life-tide I think. He claimed however a young Italian girl was doing this with tennis balls, in less than a second (pop).


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The arrogant cat stalks the humble mouse, the self important dog chases away the cat and is in turn unable to stand it's ground against the Proud lion. Then the lion is almost trampled underfoot of the enlightened elephant, who surprisingly and paradoxically yields to the humble mouse.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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