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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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More reasons why philosophy is dead.
    #12626150 -

Fundamentally, when a philosopher argues for a position he rests his argument on gut-level intuitions; a feeling that something is the way it is.  If he disagrees with another philosopher on a point, this disagreement either rests on differing basic axioms or on faulty logic being used by one party.  Assuming we are capable of debating out these latter errors, philosophical disputes come down to differences in emotionally-based assumptions about the nature of reality.  Since these cannot be logically changed (any more than I can stop myself from changing my assumption that a pen will drop if I let it fall or my assumption that I will wrinkle my nose in disgust upon smelling a corpse), it follows that debate in these situations is useless and Truth is completely relative to the philosopher.  Sophists rule, Plato drools.

Your thoughts?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: deCypher]
    #12626170 -

Mr. Cypher said:
Fundamentally, when a philosopher argues for a position he rests his argument on gut-level intuitions


The irony becomes overwhelming at this point


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12626179 -

Yeah, I realized the self-defeating nature of my argument as I was typing up my post but that's the nature of deconstructionism.  :shrug:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: deCypher]
    #12626184 -

you're a douche!


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Jesus loves you.

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: deCypher]
    #12626198 -

Mr. Cypher said:
Yeah, I realized the self-defeating nature of my argument as I was typing up my post


Ain't that a bitch?


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: andrewss]
    #12626199 -

andrewss said:
you're a douche!


:dudewtf:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: deCypher]
    #12626262 -

Mr. Cypher said:
Your thoughts?


Mr. Cypher said:
andrewss said:
you're a douche!


:dudewtf:


I dunno I couldn't think of anything to say

But I guess I would say it doesn't follow that the sophists are superior... or at least, say more about why they might be


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Jesus loves you.

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: andrewss]
    #12626274 -

Sophists have no moral qualms selling their philosophies for big bucks and they get more women than those deluded Truth-seekers.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: deCypher]
    #12626317 -

Mr. Cypher said:
Fundamentally, when a philosopher argues for a position he rests his argument on gut-level intuitions; a feeling that something is the way it is.  If he disagrees with another philosopher on a point, this disagreement either rests on differing basic axioms or on faulty logic being used by one party.  Assuming we are capable of debating out these latter errors, philosophical disputes come down to differences in emotionally-based assumptions about the nature of reality.  Since these cannot be logically changed (any more than I can stop myself from changing my assumption that a pen will drop if I let it fall or my assumption that I will wrinkle my nose in disgust upon smelling a corpse), it follows that debate in these situations is useless and Truth is completely relative to the philosopher.  Sophists rule, Plato drools.

Your thoughts?



I've always been on the fence cause there wasn't anything on either side, but I'm still looking :evil:

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: deCypher]
    #12626348 -

Mr. Cypher said:
Sophists have no moral qualms selling their philosophies for big bucks and they get more women than those deluded Truth-seekers.


:thumbup:


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Jesus loves you.

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: deCypher]
    #12626424 -

Good post, I surrender for now...

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: deCypher]
    #12626534 -

Mr. Cypher said:
Assuming we are capable of debating out these latter errors, philosophical disputes come down to differences in emotionally-based assumptions about the nature of reality.

Not necessarily (i.e.- not all assumptions about the nature of reality are emotion-based, so therefore philosophical disputes don't necessarily come down to differences in emotionally-based assumptions about the nature of reality).


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: Poid]
    #12626538 -

My point is that our basic level assumptions about the nature of reality cannot be changed.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: deCypher]
    #12626567 -

The implication being that our assumptions about the nature of reality that are on levels other than the "basic level" can be changed?


It seems like the only support for your claim that our basic level assumptions about the nature of reality cannot be changed is that they are emotion-based--even if all our assumptions about the nature of reality are emotion-based, how does this mean that they cannot be changed?


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: Poid]
    #12626577 -

Our basic level assumptions about the nature of reality operate in such a manner that they MUST be true to us; if they could be false then they aren't part of our fundamental axioms by definition.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: deCypher]
    #12626599 -

Sure, but I don't see how this means that our basic level assumptions/fundamental axioms are resistant to change.


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: Poid]
    #12626617 -

If something must be true then it cannot change by definition, and since different people disagree on what MUST be true (at the most fundamental level) then debate/conversation/pursuit of philosophical Truth is pointless.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: daytripper23]
    #12626644 -

Sophism=Winism

The rest of philosophy=jerking off fruitlessly.


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Edited by crumblebum (05/25/10 05:32 PM)

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: deCypher]
    #12626678 -

Mr. Cypher said:
Our basic level assumptions about the nature of reality operate in such a manner that they MUST be true to us...

I understand how one might, at one point in time, feel that this or that must be true, but I also see how this very feeling about this or that being true can change in a later point in time.



Mr. Cypher said:
...if they could be false then they aren't part of our fundamental axioms by definition.

I actually don't agree with this, and feel that our basic assumptions/fundamental axioms are not concrete, and are constantly being developed throughout our lifetimes as a result of various experiences.



Mr. Cypher said:
If something must be true then it cannot change by definition, and since different people disagree on what MUST be true (at the most fundamental level) then debate/conversation/pursuit of philosophical Truth is pointless.

I would think that the purpose of philosophical debate is to discover truth, and to compare/contrast different viewpoints--anybody who enters a debate only to be adamant and unwavering about their belief that their viewpoint is the correct one isn't really debating IMO. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: More reasons why philosophy is dead. [Re: Poid]
    #12626690 -

If you are debating from a philosophical position or using any sort of logical processes then you are starting from various axioms.  Any decision you make therefore relies upon these axioms, and so if it were possible to consciously change these axioms then your reasoning would have to rely on the very axioms you are trying to change.  We have arrived at a contradiction and therefore your fundamental axioms must be permanent and unchanging.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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