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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: Kasu]
    #11613756 -

you keep saying this without providing reason to believe it is true

why would matter generate consciousness? how would it do that? We have no tools to answer such questions


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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11613809 -

Consciousness is product of matter organized in a particular way. Natural science positively asserts the earth existed once, in such a state that no form of life could have possibly existed. Natural science positively asserts that in the beginning of the Big Bang, only a super-heated plasma rapidly expanding existed. Natural science also positively asserts that these electrons collided, forming heavier subatomic particles, leading to the hydrogen and helium atoms.

It took about a billion years for the first stars to ignite out of the hydrogen clouds and wither away, leaving an element rich planetary nebula behind. From these nebulae, new, second generation stars were born, with planets orbiting most of the stars. On planets the right distance from their star, with the right atmosphere, the right elements, water, etc, organic matter formed.

Do you see the trend? Matter becomes more and more complex over time. It builds on previous levels of complexification: it goes through a real evolution. Matter evolves. Animals are just matter organized in a particular way, with sense-organs, a brain, the basics. We are also animals, and are also the product of matter-in-motion organized in a definite way. We are products of mother nature.  Gasp! It can't be true!


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wsws.org

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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #11613892 -

Mr. Mushrooms said:
The game is rigged, as it was meant to be.


I'd like to know what you are implying here.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11613946 -

It means he has no salient arguments.


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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: Kasu]
    #11613960 -

Kasu said:
Consciousness is a product of the natural world, that exists independently of us!


That's a bold statement.  :rimshot:  I'd say that consciousness exists very dependently on our being alive.  No human, no consciousness.  Unless you start messing with the semantics of the word, then you can't say that it exists independently of the only creatures that have it.

I think what Noteworthy is referring to is that consciousness is, so far, unexplainable.  We have no physical explanation for consciousness.  We have lots of budding theories, but nothing beyond that it's an epiphenomena of our central nervous system.  There was a thread in here not so long ago that dealt with this a little.  I remember Noteworthy posting something that was quite convincing and worth a thought.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11613967 -

Well, let's see what he has to say, m'kay?


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11614158 -

youbreakyoubuy said:
We have lots of budding theories


what are these theories? quantum mumbo jumbo or something?

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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: Freedom]
    #11614190 -

Quote:
That's a bold statement.    I'd say that consciousness exists very dependently on our being alive.


When I said "consciousness is a product of the natural world, that exists independently of us" I was referring to the natural world, not consciousness. Consciousness is dependent on matter being organized in a certain way. When you change that organization of matter, consciousness changes with it, like replacing 5HT neurotransmitters with DMT, you change the organization so consciousness changes. However, you cannot think without the help of the brain.


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wsws.org

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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11614211 -

There have already been hundreds of pages on this. Don't need to see yet another argument from incredulity.


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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11614229 -

the doors of perception explains everything!


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in general, i'm not sure if i'm indecisive or not.

Edited by dopestone (12/09/09 12:56 AM)

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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: dopestone]
    #11614308 -

OrgoneConclusion your argument is so undeniable haha this thread is starting to get rediculous

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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: Freedom]
    #11614429 -

Pretty much.  I'm not too familiar with them to be honest.  One that I know of is the Penrose/Hameroff Model

This thread is an example where these issues has been covered before.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11614432 -

Again, I think it best to let him speak for himself if he so chooses.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11617047 -

This thread is hard house


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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: CMACD]
    #11618342 -

CMACD said:
This thread is hard house


agreed


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The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: CMACD]
    #11618370 -

CMACD said:
This thread is hard house


What?

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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: 1200 Micrograms]
    #11618879 -

1200 Micrograms said:
CMACD said:
This thread is hard house


What?


he said its a hard house.

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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: Freedom]
    #11619679 -

Well Cracka X if I took misinterpreted or took any of your post out of context then i sincerely apologize for that as I see that done constantly and in what seems to be intentional tactics. I find it to be chicken shit. So I do apologize for that.

As far as evolution being fact I will have  to agree there is no doubt that adaptations and change on basic levels occur. How would life exist on a planet without adapting. Putting simple adaptation into a category of evo and saying it is proof is like categorizing physics under quantum physics. Using simple factual occurrences to further a scientific theory is a simple BS tactic that is being used to pass a theory as fact for those ignorant enough to accept it. No one argues that we have bread domesticated animals to many different shapes and sizes. We have not  turned dogs into cats however or cats into a turkey. I know I know it takes a gazillion years...or at least long enough that we will never see it! However, I find it funny the amazing differences we have bread into dogs in a 1000 or so years yet a scientist spending most of his career could not get anymore from a fruit fly than simple physical characteristic changes. No extra legs, wings eyes.....some color and a bit more. OH! plus the two would not breed together. Now I know someone is going to say that he didn't have a thousand years, but maybe you should take into account the life cycle of a fruit fly and the simplicity.
I will not argue it is fact to you and the scientists who wish it to be true.I have the same idea of Evolution as you do of Religion, its bullshit. The overall aspect at least. Whales did not come from some hyena wannabee because they have a similarity in the sines cavity and what we presume to be vestigial organs, :poop:  :poop:  :poop: 

As far as your group of Christians I find that kinda funny. Although I do not do so myself my parents among others I know have taken numerous mission trips and I have never heard an ignorant comment like "Its what Jesus would do!"  To many bumper stickers for you pal. At least you didn't say "they are doing it to convert people!" Dumb asses that say that make me laugh. I don't know anyone financially stable enough to just spend a couple thousand dollars to go build facilities houses and community buildings so they can convert people. If so many atheists did not presume to be so aware of others intentions and ideals they would not have their heads so tightly wrapped in buttcheaks. I am not aiming this at you as your remark was not in that last category so please keep that in mind. If those kids did say such a stupid thing it was simply because they are kids doing it for the wrong reason and should grow out of it. I hope you could agree this is not a mistake of religion but of people.

I agree not disproving something is not without value but only as what it is.

I respect and appreciate any ones opinion that can do the same to others. I have and will continue to make mistakes and treat people contradictory to this as most do not do the same. It is never intentional and I apologise for my presumptions. As i said, most of the time it seems as though people who see science other than evo, which is a fact as well, end up in the center of a monkey circle jerk getting shit and semen thrown at them. No science, other than the "word", no respect, other than for the rest of the monkeys, no substance, other than the person with the point, and complete self indulged ignorance yet accusing the opposing of such.

AS far as my qualifications I am in no way qualified as much as or anymore than anyone on here. I simply am continually learning by reading watching and going to lectures and trying to find intelligent people to discuss things with. I am guessing most are going to assume my reading and lecturing are all Christian based and on the contrary I find this as self indulged ignorance. I can not stand this on any topic. I find it plenty on both sides though although only Religion gets accused of this. Bill Maher is the most full of shit lying egotistical idiot i have came across.....OK maybe not, Rush limbarf would be farther down. My point is I take anything i can find investigate all aspects and come to my own conclusion, except when it is pure science, basic facts excluding theories. Although I am certainly not as educated as you I am sure I have listened and talked with people of qualifications some would consider more extensive.

So sorry for the mistakes I may have directed at you and I am sorry that you are so absolute in what you know when it comes to calling a small fact proof of a immensely more complex theory.

Now if youll excuse me I need to grow some wings and get the hell out of here. Homework.  :leaving:+:mushroom2:=evolution....and quantum physics! lol. Just kidding....I love to trip.


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Intelligent design is not science because it is not provable.....but out of how many universes throughout the multiverse? I wonder how many of those universes have a designer? Hmmm...

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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11619947 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Most all of the thousands of varieties of domestic dogs, from great danes to chihuahuas, are the result of the selective breeding of wolves. If one was unaware of this fact, one might believe God created them all as they are seen today.

This much is not in dispute.

"But they are all the same species," a Creationist might observe as if speciation is the only marker of evolutionary change. Of course the idea of a species is a scientific classification, but the irony is lost on the ignorant.

Horses and zebras and donkeys are different species yet vary less physically than some dog varieties. Inner genetic changes obviously affect outward appearance. Can this really be argued? So a Creationist might be forced to accept these obvious facts, but stubbornly clings to the idea that speciation cannot be affected by genetic change.



So if I understand you correctly you are saying that the speciation created by man such as dogs are in fact evidence for natural changes and not intelligent design. Interesting. What were you saying about irony......

I have to admit, anyone who believes in I.D. can not get anywhere trying to debate against people with this kind of logic. IMO the most compeling evidence for Evolution are the way in which people act who support it.


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Intelligent design is not science because it is not provable.....but out of how many universes throughout the multiverse? I wonder how many of those universes have a designer? Hmmm...

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Re: DNA - Further Proof against Evolution [Re: jflow008]
    #11620354 -

"they are doing it to convert people!" Dumb asses that say that make me laugh. I don't know anyone financially stable enough to just spend a couple thousand dollars to go build facilities houses and community buildings so they can convert people.


The mission of missionaries is to convert. Churches raise money for this if I'm not mistaken. I spent some time in the Fiji islands and guess what missionaries came and then guess what. Almost all Fijians are now christian. Interesting. I also belonged to several Baptist churches who sent out missionaries to convert.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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