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Offlineergot
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DNA
    #2868844 - 07/08/04 01:02 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Timothy Leary seemed to practically idolize DNA...

What do you think about its significance?

-ergot :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: DNA [Re: ergot]
    #2868850 - 07/08/04 01:04 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I think it is of little to no signifigance whatsoever. It serves no purpose and might as well be ignored. :mad:




:lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

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Re: DNA [Re: ergot]
    #2868919 - 07/08/04 01:28 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: DNA [Re: ergot] * 1
    #2869005 - 07/08/04 02:06 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

leary's best insight was enthusiasm itself.
particularly for LSD which is a good thing in itself.

most people have no clue about DNA
they should stick with basic heredity concepts like
genes and chromosomes.

I have heard a lot of really confused stuff suggesting that a person's mind can modify their own DNA, sheesh! dumb...

there is other stuff to get excited about - even stuff we don't understand but this is wrong.

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OfflineViaggio
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Re: DNA [Re: ergot]
    #2869386 - 07/08/04 04:02 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Understanding DNA brings mankind closer to refining his quality of life.


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: DNA [Re: ergot]
    #2874958 - 07/10/04 12:20 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Significance with respect to what?

DNA encodes genetic information.

Your question is too vague.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: DNA [Re: ergot]
    #2875017 - 07/10/04 12:43 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

If you are speaking of Leary's fascination with it I agree with fireworks_god.

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OfflineBlue_Apocalypse
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Re: DNA [Re: ergot]
    #2875067 - 07/10/04 01:05 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

What amazes me about DNA is how simple it is. Its as if humans are just the result of the thermodynamics of the universe.

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OfflineAdamist
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Re: DNA [Re: ergot]
    #2875659 - 07/10/04 10:06 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Uh, spiral out, keep going.


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OfflineDF2K
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Re: DNA [Re: Adamist]
    #2875994 - 07/10/04 01:33 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

how is DNA simple?

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OfflineBlue_Apocalypse
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Re: DNA [Re: DF2K]
    #2876002 - 07/10/04 01:42 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

The way it functions is just basic chemistry. A series of complementary bases held to gether by a phosphate backbone and folded into a double-helical structure by the nature of the bonds and electron repulsions. The DNA itself simply produces proteins.

If it were overly complicated how would we be able to make tobacco plants that glow in the dark? :p

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Invisibletoad857
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Re: DNA [Re: ergot]
    #2876063 - 07/10/04 02:32 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

yeah, very simple..

4 different letters account for the infinite variation that distinguishes a bacterium from a giraffe.

CRRRRRAZY!!!

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: DNA [Re: Blue_Apocalypse]
    #2878471 - 07/11/04 03:30 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

"The way it functions is just basic chemistry. A series of complementary bases held to gether by a phosphate backbone and folded into a double-helical structure by the nature of the bonds and electron repulsions. The DNA itself simply produces proteins."

Come on people THINK! This is NOT SIMPLE.

Tell me how DNA knows what to do.... How did we get Human DNA from little microbes in the ocean?

I think the key to the mysteries behind evolution are held within the workings of DNA.

What direction is DNA evolving? How? Why? Do you think it is possible to even find this out? If we found out which direction human DNA was headed, could we use technology to speed up the process?

This is not simple. Tell me oh wise one where DNA came from? Tell me how a mere chemical reaction led to the invention of the internet and human space-travel.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Invisibletoad857
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Re: DNA [Re: Strumpling]
    #2879018 - 07/11/04 05:24 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Strumpling said:
Tell me how DNA knows what to do....




DNA itself does not know what to do. Think of DNA as a long list of instructions. These instructions are 'unzipped' and fed into proteins specifically made for decoding DNA. These proteins read the DNA 'instructions' and from them assemble amino acids. (This is why the process is officially called "translation of DNA")
The amino acids, which are the building blocks of proteins, are assembled piece by piece into proteins which make up lots of stuff.

Quote:

Strumpling said:
How did we get Human DNA from little microbes in the ocean?




the little microbes in the ocean, through a long series of selection, genetic variation, and breeding, eventually evolved into other things.


Quote:

Strumpling said:
I think the key to the mysteries behind evolution are held within the workings of DNA.




you're right, they are.

Quote:

Strumpling said:
What direction is DNA evolving? How? Why? Do you think it is possible to even find this out? If we found out which direction human DNA was headed, could we use technology to speed up the process?




the way DNA evolves does not have a specific 'direction'. DNA fragments are altered randomly. these little alterations make up different instructions for the 'builder proteins' to decode, which gives us genetic variation (this is why you don't look exactly like your parents). The way that these pieces are altered is completely random and we have no way to forsee how they will change.

speed up the process? well, that's what happens when DNA is exposed to conditions that cause it to alter itself more often. for example, exposing cells to massive doses of radiation will alter the sequence of many DNA strands, causing more variation than usual.
this is already happening in some areas. some farmers will 'treat' thousands of corn kernals to massive radiation. these seeds are then planted. some seeds die, some live, some are unique and grow an extra two feet taller than a normal corn plant. These 'monster plants' are then breeded to give us more corn (err.. to make the farmers more money, duh)... yummy!


Quote:

Strumpling said:
This is not simple. Tell me oh wise one where DNA came from? Tell me how a mere chemical reaction led to the invention of the internet and human space-travel.




are you familiar with how evolution works? i think everyone should know. take, for example, two apple trees. one tree grows red apples and the other grows dark purple ones.
apple trees spread their seeds by 'hiding' them inside tasty fruit. animals eat the fruit, spit out the seeds (they taste bad and are poisonous), and the seeds grow into new trees. now--which apple tree will have more seeds spread, the purple or red? animals are less likely to see the purple trees and will more often eat from teh red apple tree. viola! after many generations, fewer and fewer purple trees exist because the red ones are takin over---->evolution.

it's no wonder why humans have been able to take over the planet. through a series of wild and crazy DNA variations, humans have evolved from small organisms into super-intelligent monkeys (because we are more likely to survive/reproduce as intelligent monkeys than stupid monkeys).

The invention of the internet etc are the results of mankind, not DNA. DNA can't code instructions to assemble a space ship.

Where DNA came from? wow good question. there are some theories around, but to put is short--nobody knows.






Hope that helps.

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: DNA [Re: toad857]
    #2879337 - 07/11/04 07:36 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

"Think of DNA as a long list of instructions."

Right.. how do these instructions change over time? What's editing these instructions?

"DNA fragments are altered randomly."

By randomly, you mean in ways that cannot yet be predicted.

"are you familiar with how evolution works?"

Science has no idea how evolution works. I mean yes obviously the white rabbit is more successful in the snow, and the brown rabbit is more successful in the woods, because a brown rabbit in the snow would be more noticeable and more likely to get its ass kicked/killed, therefore not creating offspring.

You are still missing my inquiry though as to where these mutations come from. You claim it is "completely random." I don't really believe in random processes; it just doesn't make sense. In my opinion everything that ever happens occurs as a direct result of everything that happened just before....

I don't feel this is "random" at all - I just feel we haven't figured out the causes and effects at play here.

But I'll agree to disagree with you on this.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: DNA [Re: Strumpling]
    #2879515 - 07/11/04 08:42 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

"DNA itself does not know what to do. Think of DNA as a long list of instructions. These instructions are 'unzipped' and fed into proteins specifically made for decoding DNA. These proteins read the DNA 'instructions' and from them assemble amino acids. "

ok, good analogy, but heres the problem. When we 'unzip' a file and extract the data, we know that some person, a computer engineer or something, was the one who put that data there originally.

So if DNA is a bunch of instructions for development, who or what wrote those instructions?

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: DNA [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2879525 - 07/11/04 08:46 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
So if DNA is a bunch of instructions for development, who or what wrote those instructions?




Fine, fine.... if you really want to know....

It was me. :evil:

:grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: DNA [Re: Strumpling]
    #2879551 - 07/11/04 08:59 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Right.. how do these instructions change over time? What's editing these instructions?

The DNA molecule (actually, a macromolecule) is very suceptible to certain forms of damage. Ionizing radiation can snap the strand in half, or knock off parts of it. Chemicals (especially free-radicals) can pull the strand apart by tearing some of the atoms out of the strand. Virus' can insert their own sections of DNA (actually, RNA) into the strand. The cell itself has a variety of ways to deal with this damage. The (hopefully) result is the strand being put back together with the proper sequence still intact. Usually if repair is not successful or not possible and the damage causes the DNA to stop working properly the cell will self-distruct ("cell suicide") to avoid such things as cancer (which is what happens when DNA is damaged and the cell does not suicide). If the strand is damaged and not repaired properly, but still remains functional with the new sequencing, it is said to have mutated...and it is this mutation that is believed to cause evolution to occur over millions of years.

By randomly, you mean in ways that cannot yet be predicted.

Yes. It is impossible to determine beforehand what type of damage the DNA will receive in its lifetime or what the result of that damage will be.

Science has no idea how evolution works.

Yes, actually, it does. See above...

You are still missing my inquiry though as to where these mutations come from.

See above...

I don't really believe in random processes; it just doesn't make sense. In my opinion everything that ever happens occurs as a direct result of everything that happened just before....

I don't feel this is "random" at all - I just feel we haven't figured out the causes and effects at play here.


There seems to be a lot of confusion around here about the concept of "random".

You are entirely correct (I think) in saying that everything which happens is a result of everything that happened "before" it. I have never seen anything to disprove Causality in this Universe. That does not remove the concept of randomness from the picture, though. When a DNA strand breaks, it breaks for a very specific reason (virus, free-radical, energetic radiation, ect) but the exact location of the break as well as the result of the break are certainly "random" in effect :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: DNA [Re: trendal]
    #2879560 - 07/11/04 09:02 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting stuff! I've learned a lot about DNA in this thread, tusen takk. :thumbup:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: DNA [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2879571 - 07/11/04 09:05 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

So if DNA is a bunch of instructions for development, who or what wrote those instructions?

DNA is an excellent example of self-organizing systems. An unwound strand of DNA is a simple string of two-letter codes (GT or AC). When the strand winds up, it does so in a very specific configuration which depends on the ordering of the base-pair "codes", because of the way the chemicals along the strand interact with eachother.

DNA is just chemistry on a very complex, abstracted level. If you understand chemistry, you are not far off from understanding how the DNA macromolecule orders itself and functions within a cell.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: DNA [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2879593 - 07/11/04 09:13 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Something we've learned in the past 50 years (since the discovery of DNA) is that the DNA molecule and its sequencing is only the very begining of the story. The genes in DNA "encode" proteins into very specific structures...and it is these proteins which are actually responsible for all cellular action - the DNA itself does nothing other than encode proteins for use. We succeeded several years ago in mapping the entire human DNA sequence but have only just begun to map out the protein system.

If you would like to help with this protein research (which will become MUCH more important than genetics over the next decade) you should join the Shroomery's folding@home team!!!

You can download a screensaver which will use your computer during the time you aren't using it to study protein folding. Proteins are long strings of amino acids, which "fold" themselves into very specific structures. It is the PRECISE configuration of these structures which determines how the protein "works". Almost all (or perhaps all) hereditary diseases are the result of improper protein folding...often having desasterous effects on the body. Once we determine the possibilities for folded proteins we will be very close to cures for so many of the diseases we suffer from! SO PLEASE JOIN THE FOLDING@HOME TEAM AND HELP US LEARN MORE ABOUT OUR MOST BASIC BUILDING BLOCKS!!!


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Invisibletoad857
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Re: DNA [Re: trendal]
    #2879621 - 07/11/04 09:22 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

deciphering all of the proteins that make up the human body is such a daunting task.  it's some really, really tricky chemistry.

:syringe:

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: DNA [Re: toad857]
    #2879625 - 07/11/04 09:23 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

That's why we need you on the [Email]folding@home[/Email] team!!! :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: DNA [Re: trendal]
    #2880053 - 07/11/04 10:52 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

"it breaks for a very specific reason (virus, free-radical, energetic radiation, ect) but the exact location of the break as well as the result of the break are certainly "random" in effect "

According to my dictionary, Random means something that is unable to be predicted. Unfortunately my dictionary fails to mention the 4th dimension (time) in this.

Weather systems and climate phenomenon used to be labeled as completely "random" as well. I think you are losing faith in mankind's ability to figure shit out. Several hundred years from now if humans are still around here on Earth we will most likely be able to predict precisely where that DNA strand is going to break, and tell precisely what the result of that break will be....

But of course; that's just my opinion - I could be wrong.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: DNA [Re: Strumpling]
    #2880094 - 07/11/04 11:04 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

But of course; that's just my opinion - I could be wrong.

And I'm going to have to say yes, you are wrong on this one strumpling :smirk:

Here's why: let's say an energetic particle (radiation) comes zooming across the galaxy and enters the Earth's atmosphere. From there it zooms down through my right arm and comes into contact with a strand of DNA in one my my cells there, causing the DNA strand to snap in half. Predicting when or where such an event will occur is physically impossible: the only way to know that the particle even existed (before it comes into contact with my DNA) would be to use some device to detect it beforehand...and the detection itself would capture the particle and remove any possibility of it coming into contact with my arm. If it isn't detected before it reaches that strand of DNA in my arm, there is no possible way to predict the exact location along the DNA strand where it makes contact (again, because we didn't even know the particle existed before it reaches my DNA).

Now: it is quite possible to take a look at a strand of DNA and determine where along it's length it is most susceptible to damage. From there we could determine the probability of a strand of DNA breaking at any given point, assuming it is attacked at that point by a damage-causing agent...but again it is impossible to know when/where an agent will come into contact with the DNA unless we physically cause the agent to come into contact with a specified point along the DNA strand.

Randomness is an underlying aspect of the way our Universe functions at its most basic levels.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: DNA [Re: trendal]
    #2880568 - 07/12/04 01:10 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

"Predicting when or where such an event will occur is physically impossible"

As of now, yes. We've been doing things that were previously thought physically impossible for thousands of years.

All I'm saying is that its never possible to predict what kinds of things we're going to be able to predict in the future.

That being said, I'm comfortable in stating that neither of us have any idea if its really truely timelessly "random"


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: DNA [Re: trendal]
    #2880593 - 07/12/04 01:14 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

We have to remember that we dont know exactly how evolution works. We have ideas... and thats science.

If we knew how DNA worked... really knew, we would be manipulating it a lot more than we have.

We know about certain things concerning how evolution and dna works, but we do not know all of it.


--------------------
What?

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: DNA [Re: trendal]
    #2880603 - 07/12/04 01:18 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah... with all those subatomic particles flying through everything everywhere from every direction at everytime, I imagine it would be impossible to figure it all out... well, very improbable... :grin:

Perhaps certain particles emitted from the Sun have something to do with our evolution... I think the Hindus believe something along those lines... I was reading something once... don't really remember... *gives up*
:smirk:

Edit: I was thinking about it more. If these are basic proteins and such that are mutated by all of these different, subatomic particles that are flying around, isn't it possible that it could be certain particles being released from the Sun that would have sparked life on this planet?  :ooo:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Edited by fireworks_god (07/12/04 01:22 AM)

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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: DNA [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2880617 - 07/12/04 01:21 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

well i read a theory on the creation of DNA was that hydrogen molecules were fused together with the suns rays.


And what i was saying before... i should say that we would be utilizing it much more... effectively.


--------------------
What?

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: DNA [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2880626 - 07/12/04 01:24 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Zero7a1 said:
If we knew how DNA worked... really knew, we would be manipulating it a lot more than we have.




I think what trendal was saying before is that the DNA is only encoding these proteins, and that the proteins are really the key to all of this, and those are still being studied... *shrugs and hopes for the best* :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: DNA [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2880671 - 07/12/04 01:36 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah... very much so.

Protiens are basically the "recipes" for tissues and processes in your body.

Encoding takes place as an assignment... to create and deliver the protiens... protien formations are carried out by cells. Cells are created by DNA. DNA more or less controls the cell. Each cell has its own task... as before.

To me personally.... that is a shitload of information for us to understand fully enough to utilize in a manner in which we could play with it how we wished... respectively.

To me that means until were there we dont really KNOW... but we do know some things...

For me im only saying this becaause i think a lot of people (and ive read reports of scientific experiments) that they assume too much about the role of dna and change within the being.

Without knowing really what were dealing with, i think its harmful to assume one too many things regarding how dna functions.

There is still a whole world of other concerns effecting DNA and evolutionary matters...

but trendal was right in the fact that certain matter effect our dna.

im just really hesitant to assume we know more than we do.

Besides... manipulating our DNA without too great a knowledge may completely fuck the whole evolution thing...

Finding where DNA and evolution fit together is still a tricky game imo  :cool:


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What?

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: DNA [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2880710 - 07/12/04 01:44 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Hehe, ja... I myself am officially assuming I know nothing about DNA. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

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:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: DNA [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2880718 - 07/12/04 01:46 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

"im just really hesitant to assume we know more than we do."

Me too. I'm also really hesitant to assume that because we currently think something is physically impossible, that it will never be possible.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: DNA [Re: Strumpling]
    #2881740 - 07/12/04 10:32 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Strumpling, I can't agree with you on this one :smirk:

Unless we are 100% wrong with our physics, especially quantum mechanics, I can see no possibility of ever predicting where damage will occur along a DNA strand with any sort of accuracy. Before you go ahead and say "well quantum mechanics COULD be wrong"...take a look at that computer you're using and think again.

Following along with my previous exampe of a cosmic-ray:
There is only one way to "know" that a particle exists in a certain location, and that is to "detect" it by interacting with the particle in some way. By interacting with the particle, you change it's momentum (and thus where it is headed). If you change it's momentum, it is no longer going to end up in the same place (the DNA in my arm) at all! This is a very fundamental part to our Universe, something we understand quite well.

If you DON'T detect the particle en route, you have no idea there is even a particle there...and hence can have no idea that a particle is about to come into contact with my DNA.

Some of our greatest minds have tried for nearly a century now to disprove the Uncertainty principle with absolutely no results whatsoever.

What you are proposing is like saying you can predict exactly where a star is in the sky...without even looking for it :smirk:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Invisibletoad857
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Re: DNA [Re: ergot]
    #2881842 - 07/12/04 11:11 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

i'm with ya on this one trendal..




we really *do* know quite a bit about evolutionary processes and DNA's function.

there are many reasons that we haven't been 'manipulating it a lot more'. for one, DNA was 'discovered' about 50 years ago. that's not a long time. we have only begun to unwrap the pieces. remember the human genome project w/ clinton? that was only a few years ago. we have made HUGE breakthroughs since then.

DNA manipulation is a bit tricky because of society's stance on it. they think biologists are 'playing god' and other things. ever hear about the stem cell controversy? if it weren't for the pending legislation and society's ignorant views on it, by now we may have been able to cure any genetic disease you can imagine. muscular distrophy--poof! alzheimers--poof! you get the picture.

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OfflineViaggio
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Re: DNA [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2881906 - 07/12/04 11:30 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I enjoyed reading this thread. Modesty aside, I'm pretty well informed on DNA. Anyone here ever study miochondrial DNA, and the theories on the origin of mitochondria? Very interesting stuff. Actually, some researchers speculate that the m-DNA can (and does) influence the nucleic DNA (n-DNA). Because m-DNA is much less complex, genetic engineering via that route might be an easier task.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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Invisibletoad857
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Re: DNA [Re: Viaggio]
    #2881934 - 07/12/04 11:38 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

viaggio said:
I enjoyed reading this thread.  Modesty aside, I'm pretty well informed on DNA.  Anyone here ever study miochondrial DNA, and the theories on the origin of mitochondria?  Very interesting stuff.  Actually, some researchers speculate that the m-DNA can (and does) influence the nucleic DNA (n-DNA).  Because m-DNA is much less complex, genetic engineering via that route might be an easier task.





never heard of m-DNA engineering.  i know that they're self-replicating so i guess they wouldnt appear as the obvious candidate.

yeah i think it's interesting where they came from.  i think that is sorta how most life got a 'jump start' from single cellularity.  CRAZZZY stuff!  hard schooling though  :sad:

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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: DNA [Re: toad857]
    #2882191 - 07/12/04 12:51 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

That was exactly my point... Sure we have learned alot, but it isnt all :wink:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: DNA [Re: Viaggio]
    #2882227 - 07/12/04 01:04 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Mitochondrial DNA is VERY interesting, yes! I have even heard some theories that mitochondria may have been an entirely separate organism at one time in the past! Eukaryotic cells could have "captured" the mitochondria organism into a symbiotic relationship: the eukaryotic cell provides mitochondria with glucose as food, and the mitochondria provides the eukaryotic cell with ATP as an energy source.

Also: mDNA is usually only passed on to offspring by the mother. I read once that because we all seem to have nearly the exact same mDNA we must all have "come from" a VERY small number of females way back down the line!


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: DNA [Re: trendal]
    #2882264 - 07/12/04 01:14 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

> mDNA is usually only passed on to offspring by the mother. I read once that because we all seem to have nearly the exact same mDNA we must all have "come from" a VERY small number of females way back down the line!

There was a good journal article about two months ago discussing this. They have found that the father donates a lot more than just nuclear DNA to the creation of offspring. They identified both RNA and proteins getting transferred to the egg as well.


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OfflineBlue_Apocalypse
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Re: DNA [Re: Strumpling]
    #2882490 - 07/12/04 02:09 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I know there is a strong desire to believe in something else and be mystified by the workings of DNA, but the truth is that it is just an organic molecule and the development of life is just a chemical reaction. Of course this reaction is highly complex and that is not what i meant when i said DNA is "simple" but it is simple enough for us to have a nearly complete and thorough understanding of how it functions, and we do. We know all of the enzymes and proteins involved in DNA synthesis and protein synthesis and, indeed, we can make it happen in a test tube by providing the correct chemicals and conditions. We can create strands of DNA from scratch and make them any sequence we want because we understand the basic chemistry behind them...and thats what it is, basic chemistry.

Using the word "code" for DNA is misleading, if not entirely incorrect. There is no inherent code in DNA. For instance, there are all different kinds of hemoglobin proteins made by DNA depending on the insertions or deletions of genetic material in various species but all hemoglobin serves the same purpose as long as it has the vital amino acids in the correct position to bond with iron and oxygen. In fact, we now actually study evolution by looking at the differences in hemoglobin genes between species because they change over time.

As far as mitochondria go, i find one of the most fascinating things about them is that life would have never been able to evolve even close to as complex as humans are without them due to the large amounts of energy we need to keep our chemical reactions going. This is mostly supplied by mitochondria which is indeed symbiotic bacterial DNA passed on by females.

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Invisibletoad857
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Re: DNA [Re: Seuss]
    #2882531 - 07/12/04 02:15 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
There was a good journal article about two months ago discussing this. They have found that the father donates a lot more than just nuclear DNA to the creation of offspring. They identified both RNA and proteins getting transferred to the egg as well.




that sounds really familiar to me.. i think i may have read it

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Offlinejflow008
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Re: DNA [Re: DF2K]
    #11607689 - 12/07/09 11:22 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DF2K said:
how is DNA simple?




LOL!!! No doubt. My first thought.

Im kinda thinking he must be joking though.


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Intelligent design is not science because it is not provable.....but out of how many universes throughout the multiverse? I wonder how many of those universes have a designer? Hmmm...

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OfflineGermican
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Re: DNA [Re: jflow008]
    #11607745 - 12/07/09 11:33 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jflow008 said:
Quote:

DF2K said:
how is DNA simple?




LOL!!! No doubt. My first thought.

Im kinda thinking he must be joking though.




It is quite simple. The structure holds a series of adenine guanine cytosine and thymine. They are held together with a ribose backbone for structure. The arrangements are of these bases code for amino acid chains that form specific proteins. Based on whether the based pairs on located on a exon or intron shows if the specific based pair is used in a specific amino acid sequence. Most DNA desiease are from mutations taken place on these strands of DNA that then alter the structure of a specific protein rendering it possibly useless.

For example there is a DNA sequence that i have worked with that codes for the OCT2 transport protien. This is the Organic Cation Transport 2 which if a person has a Single-nucleotide polymorphism it renders the transport unusable. In these patients they are unable to use Metformin to treat their diabetes because they are unable to take up the drug through this transport because of just 1 change.

The world on the molecular level is simpler than our because nothing has a hidden meaning. Structure = function

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Offlinejflow008
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Re: DNA [Re: Germican]
    #11608359 - 12/08/09 01:29 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Germican said:
Quote:

jflow008 said:
Quote:

DF2K said:
how is DNA simple?




LOL!!! No doubt. My first thought.

Im kinda thinking he must be joking though.




It is quite simple. The structure holds a series of adenine guanine cytosine and thymine. They are held together with a ribose backbone for structure. The arrangements are of these bases code for amino acid chains that form specific proteins. Based on whether the based pairs on located on a exon or intron shows if the specific based pair is used in a specific amino acid sequence. Most DNA desiease are from mutations taken place on these strands of DNA that then alter the structure of a specific protein rendering it possibly useless.

For example there is a DNA sequence that i have worked with that codes for the OCT2 transport protien. This is the Organic Cation Transport 2 which if a person has a Single-nucleotide polymorphism it renders the transport unusable. In these patients they are unable to use Metformin to treat their diabetes because they are unable to take up the drug through this transport because of just 1 change.

The world on the molecular level is simpler than our because nothing has a hidden meaning. Structure = function




Ok. I just made the mistake of listening of scientists opinions of it. Sorry.


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Intelligent design is not science because it is not provable.....but out of how many universes throughout the multiverse? I wonder how many of those universes have a designer? Hmmm...

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Offlinejflow008
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Re: DNA [Re: jflow008]
    #11608378 - 12/08/09 01:33 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

BTW, Im not saying you are not as you seem to have far better understanding than I do. I am just saying that i have heard scientists talk about how incredibly compex DNA is and we do not even know all there is to know about it.


--------------------
Intelligent design is not science because it is not provable.....but out of how many universes throughout the multiverse? I wonder how many of those universes have a designer? Hmmm...

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