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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #11124474 -

Senor_Doobie said:
By teaching people that there are rules to subjects like art and science, creativity is stifled.  If a new idea is entered into a world of people taught that there is only one way to do things, the idea will be rejected because it doesn't flow with what is already "known".  People cling to what they learn in school as if the subjects taught are taught as they actually are.  In many cases, this is not true, and that fact counteracts creative momentum.



i feel the same way



and besides.....



homosapiens have been around a very long time
we got to the point of thinking we need school, before there was any school

seems to me like ignorance making a system of semi-functional ignorance

after a long enough time, school, to anyone, must seem true

thats what self-propagating programs do


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Growery

Daily Tzolkin

:peace: :heart: :earth:

"If triangles' had a God, he would have 3 sides."

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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11124484 -

Quote:
what the fuck are you talking about?  when did i say anything negative towards alternate forms of education?  please, show me.  you did not even address the comment i made to you in any form whatsoever.  did you even read my post?


the same can be said about this post of yours

i'm not going to try to discuss this subject with you anymore because your ego is getting flustered and it's just a matter of time before someone is :onfire:


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Growery

Daily Tzolkin

:peace: :heart: :earth:

"If triangles' had a God, he would have 3 sides."

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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11124501 -

Children from indigenous tribes/cultures are able to differentiate over 250 different shades of red, while children from our (western) culture, can differentiate around 50.

School destroys your ability to think abstractly.  It's a control method, teach everyone the same exact thing, at the same exact point in their lives, and control what it is that they "learn".

Look into Rudolph Steiner, and his Waldorf Schools.
I say this a lot on this site, but once again, I highly recommend Joseph Chilton Pearce: The Biology of Transcendence.

Also, I highly recommend The Dumbest Generation: How the Digital Age Stupefies Young Americans and Jeopardizes Our Future.  This book has MANY different studies, statistics, regarding the decline in our generations ability to READ, coming to conclusions such as: young people are able to recognize and understand less and less words in each generation.  It also describes what computers, computers in the classroom, and television does to kids and their ability to comprehend and think creatively.

SCHOOL IS JUST ANOTHER BRICK IN THEIR WALL
WELCOME TO THE MACHINE

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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: tektonic]
    #11124508 -

i hope you realize you just got a very real facepalm with that link.  it just hurt.  dude, seriously.  what is going on in your brain?  i can't even follow your line of thought.


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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11124520 -

The Biology of Transcendence sounds like an awesome book just based on the title lol.  Can you elaborate on it a bit more?


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11124523 -

that's funny cause i know exactly what your trying to say :shrug:

maybe you should go back to school, and learn to find real meaning :lol:


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Growery

Daily Tzolkin

:peace: :heart: :earth:

"If triangles' had a God, he would have 3 sides."

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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: tektonic]
    #11124553 -

or maybe that's because i'm actually speaking with sound logic.  whereas you're completely avoiding my questions and instead lecturing to me about 'x' under the assumption that i believe 'y', when in fact i believe 'z'.

edit to clarify.  the point being, my first post addressing you asked you a series of questions with the consideration that you "disagreed with everything" badchad had said, including "so you don't believe that children should learn the fundamentals of reading, writing, and arithmetic?" and "so you don't agree that there is limited space in the job market for professional artists?", both of which being points purported by badchad in his previous post.  and instead of even acknowledging said questions, you proceed to claim that i was brainwashed, supporting the creative stifling of children, and disregarding einstein's accomplishments.  not one of which topics had remotely anything to do with my prior post.

this is why i do not follow your logic.


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Edited by tiny_rabid_birds (09/25/09 10:14 AM)

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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11124566 -

yes, i am retarded, nobody understands anything i say or think.
shiny objects and colorful art distract me.
i am jacks complete retardation.


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Growery

Daily Tzolkin

:peace: :heart: :earth:

"If triangles' had a God, he would have 3 sides."

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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: openmind]
    #11124582 -

Back to the original topic...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_fixedness#Introduction_to_Functional_Fixedness


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: tektonic]
    #11124602 -

tiny_rabid_birds said:
and you don't believe that there is comparatively little room for full-time artists in our job market?  you do realize this is a profession where nothing of necessity is produced.  art is a luxury afforded once the basic necessities of life are met - ie food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, etc.  and the unfortunate truth is that those basic necessities are goddamned expensive, and require a solid source of financial funding.

please explain to me how his logic is brainwashed again.  because it seems pretty sound to me.


About your point about artists.  You seem to be missing the importance of creativity.  Art is one venue for creativity, but creativity applies to so much more.

Does school really destroy our creativity?  Well, it certainly emphasizes memorizing information and learning to do logical tasks.  It really comes down to the teacher, but for the most part, information is shoveled into our brains, and teachers do nothing to exercise our creative understanding of that information, which can turn alot of people into non self thinkers.


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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: tektonic]
    #11124608 -

SENOR DOOBIE

http://www.ratical.org/many_worlds/JCP98.html

that is a link to an interview with joseph chilton pearce on education.

to elaborate more on The Biology of Transcendence, I'll copy and paste a link with notes on some of the books themes.

http://store.innertraditions.com/Product.jmdx;jsessionid=3A48CEF1C26B4FB82B2616E0F2FC978C?action=displayDetail&id=922&searchString=978-1-59477-016-6

Along with precise scientific study, Pearce elaborates on many personal experiences, and also explains how his studies of over 50 years led to one of the newest fields of scientific research, that beaing "neuro-cardiology", that is, "Neurocardiology is the study of the neurophysiological, neurological and neuroanatomical aspects of cardiology, including especially the neurological origins of cardiac disorders.[1] The effects of stress on the heart are studied in terms of the heart's interactions with both the peripheral nervous system and the central nervous system.

Clinical issues in neurocardiology include hypoxic-ischemic brain injury, cerebral embolism, encephalopathy, neurologic sequelae of cardiac surgery and cardiac interventions, and cardiovascular findings in patients with primary neurological disease"

I cannot go on enough about this book.  It surely puts all the mystical interpretations of what we call "enlightenment", or "transcendence", into biological and scientific perspective.

Joseph Chilton Pearce also explains the NEED of nurture during childhood, stating the mother to be the "model imperative" for brain development.  He explains how single heart cells separated even by "barriers", begin to beat at the same rythym, and how this relates to mother/child relationship.

It is such an amazing book, and I am so excited to at least get ONE person on this website interested.

Please Please give him a read.  He wrote his first book on the subject back in the 50's, called "The Crack in the Cosmic Egg".

He wrote a book on the correct child brain development, and how this NATURAL evolution in one waking life is very dependent on the type of upbringing a child gets.

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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: Smitington]
    #11124642 -

Smitington said:
tiny_rabid_birds said:
and you don't believe that there is comparatively little room for full-time artists in our job market?  you do realize this is a profession where nothing of necessity is produced.  art is a luxury afforded once the basic necessities of life are met - ie food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, etc.  and the unfortunate truth is that those basic necessities are goddamned expensive, and require a solid source of financial funding.

please explain to me how his logic is brainwashed again.  because it seems pretty sound to me.


About your point about artists.  You seem to be missing the importance of creativity.  Art is one venue for creativity, but creativity applies to so much more.

Does school really destroy our creativity?  Well, it certainly emphasizes memorizing information and learning to do logical tasks.  It really comes down to the teacher, but for the most part, information is shoveled into our brains, and teachers do nothing to exercise our creative understanding of that information, which can turn alot of people into non self thinkers.


well for starters, my point on artists was simply an expansion of what badchad had said.  i absolutely was not trying to make a point that professional artistry is the only reason to develop creativity in children.  i am completely a proponent of creative development.

but as for your point.  it is true that much of school is focused on the retention of information.  and to an extent, i'd agree that it's a downfall.  but where's the balance between focusing on retention of new material and the analysis of old material?  there's a LOT of knowledge to be had, and it's pretty hard to distinguish what knowledge is more important than other.  therefore it's hard to discern what to focus time on retaining, especially considering the extent to which knowledge of certain subjects build upon one another (most of the sciences).  but again, i think that comes down to the skill of the teacher.  the teacher's ability to work in the analytical/problem-solving/creativity flexing skills in conjunction with the memorization. 

unfortunately, public schools simply do not have the funds to tailor the curriculum around each individual students' needs.  it's just not a feasibility.  there are other options though.  magnet schools, home schooling, private tudors.  these would allow the child to focus more thoroughly on specific subjects, from both a memorizational and analytical standpoint, at the sacrifice of time spent on other subjects.


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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11124678 -

I guess it comes down to how unique we all are, if school really is not the best for developing one's own talents, well, that's just the life that person gets.  We can develope our talents on our own and just do the best we can to get through school, or try to explore an alternative school or home schooling, although most people prefer public schools for their social networks.

I think one of the underlining arguements here is that school attempts to fit us all into a mold, but not everybody fits into that mold.  Is it really possible for a system to adapt to every individual though?  We can do the best we can to educate each person, but some people are just bound to be unique, no matter how enveloping the system might be.

I guess what I'm saying here is that in life, it really comes down to the individual, the individual is most in control of their own life, and individuals must take control for themselves, and not let school, or anything else hold them back.


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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: Smitington]
    #11124714 -

absolutely.  do what you can with what you got. 

it really is a shame the extent to which underfunded schools sacrifice teachers' creative license for the sake of no child left behind.  but until there's a reformation of the system, that public school is the best chance most kids' have (unless the kid is blessed with extremely competent and active parents).  it sucks, but c'est la vie. :shrug:


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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: badchad]
    #11124722 -

badchad said:
tektonic said:
badchad said:
Sciences builds upon its own knowledge.




Science builds upon nature.

we aren't machines dude, einstien dropped out of highschool, are you serious that ANYTHING important MUST be done thru school?!?!?!?


In general, science progresses in a stepwise manner.  You take one result, or piece of knowledge and expand upon it.

You take whats already known, build a testable hypothesis and take it further.


if that were the case then science would have gotten nowhere fast

science builds upon philosophy, you rationalize a model based on an
unknown to reach that hypothesis. this is an encouragement of
creativity, it's simply not in the artistic sense

it takes creativity to build the machines that move thousands of tons of
dirt each day or to produce electricity and get it to our homes and to
produce a means of gazing out into the stars to see if the aliens were
coming to eat us


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Do Schools kill creativity?... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11124764 -

Alot of science is just building on current knowledge, and running experiments which would follow suit, but every once and a while a completely creative and fresh take on things is required for the advance of science, so really, science requires both types of people.


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Edited by Smitington (09/25/09 11:11 AM)

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