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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
killing a dream?it could happen
    #1779083 - 08/04/03 05:43 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

As the reports come in on the El Cid scene(or lack thereof)this thought occurred to my conspiracy theory filled, paranoid delusional mind.
If I wanted to destroy the mystique of LSD how would I do it?
Read many opf the reports on the El Cid going around and you will see how it is done.
First hype the product "silver summer"(I was wishing too folks)and leak hints of good quantity.This will get us old timers to reminisce about good times and great folks setting up expectations even higher.
Now turn out a bunch of crap hits for outrageous prices that newbies will scoff at and have a completly different perception of the "scene" than was portrayed by some of us oldsters.
We lose credibility,Acid loses its mystical attraction and the prohibitionists finally pull the thorn in their side the festival scene has always been and the El Cid culture which surrounds it.
Now am I just an old paranoid or does this ring a little too true?
What do some of you youngers think of the El Cid scene this year?Happy? Enlightened? or Scammed,ripped off and over charged?
What memories of golden acid summers will you carry on?Will there be the fascination with the spice which was growing with it's scarcity?Or has the mystery been corrupted by blue ball hits that cost triple what a mind blowing hit cost ten yrs ago?
I am very interested what you young folks think of what you are experiencing on the festival trail.I already know it has been changed beyond MY recognition.So please fill in this old fart on what's happening now.I don't wish to make a further fool of myself talking about the old times like they have not changed,obviosly they have.
All I can say (and I may even be speaking for china too)this is NOT the way we left things and we are too long from the scene and too old and battered by living it too change anything but our advice to ya'll.
Since the scene is obviously corrupted terribly I personaly would like to here from you your experiences in this "Silver Summer".
BTW Like China I was informed things were going to be VERY good this year..........MY BAD TO BELIEVE AND SPEAK BEFORE CONFIRMATION.
To all of you who I may have contributed to higher expectations than delivered I apologize,I was as duped as you and am pretty pissed at the person who gave me the info(who BTW is no where to be found).
So what do you all think the effect of this years crap acid will ahve on future expectations?
I know it has dampened my faith in Family and deepened my worry that the movement has been corrupted or taken over by "other" interests.
WR:rasta: :shake:


--------------------
To old for this place


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 8,946
Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: whiterasta]
    #1779233 - 08/04/03 06:47 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

If I wanted to destroy the mystique of LSD how would I do it?




-Honestly, I think that the family should not use music anymore to move the juice; I think they should be using the internet and anonomous P.O. Boxes as a new hub of distribution. As far as destroying the mystique, well i don't think that will ever be possible...



Quote:

the prohibitionists finally pull the thorn in their side the festival scene has always been and the El Cid culture which surrounds it.
Now am I just an old paranoid or does this ring a little too true?




-Yeah, The DEA and stupid coppers really threw a monkey-wrench into the concert/festival scene. I think that the year 2000 was a turning point for the drugs chain of distribution; i also think that the rave scene is responsible for much of the price hikes on the doses...



Quote:

What do some of you youngers think of the El Cid scene this year?Happy? Enlightened? or Scammed,ripped off and over charged?




Well, i had at least 3 or 4 good summers in the 90's of bountiful lsd...i don't feel all that much ripped off or over-charged, i just felt that the lsd just was not out there this year. The supply and demand simply was not met.



Now, the one thing that simply is not acceptable is putting the crystals into the wrong peoples hands. Absolutely no excuse for this, imo. Weak sheets is wrong. And i believe that weak sheets is the reason for all the problems this year. If those doses were strong enough than the drug will work its magic on those people, and the prices will drop about one hour after the dealer drops a hit on the tounge...LSD is supposed to be very potent experience, that is why everything was working out well until the potency drops, then the people arent tripping hard enough and they just start thinking about how much money they can make off it.

Cool post, thanks,

Keep shroomin,
GGreatOne234


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: whiterasta]
    #1779276 - 08/04/03 07:06 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

As a veteran and also a spectator to this summers tour I would like to sling a little mud. It might make some friends pissed, but when it comes to our sacrament I call it as I see. it.

First there is a whole new wave of tour kids. Alot of these kids are touring because its the "cool ,alternative " thing to do. A different lifestyle to adventure. I don't think alot of these kids were raised with the same guidence that some of us older people were. When I came on tour there was a ton of old people who were kind and showed the youngsters the value of LSD and spreading it around.

Some of these tour kids are taking ten-packs and selling them out in single doses at 7-10$ a piece. Thats 6-8000$ profit on only 1000 doses.
I used to make 300$ on each gram I sold. Thats 3 cents a dose profit. Lesser amounts were more taxed ,but never more than 50 cents per dose.

Thats the problem I see at the bottom of the scale. Now to talk about the problem at the top. There have been a few people to turn out some batches of less than 100mcg. This is a problem because 100mcg. has been the agreed upon lowest dose for awhile. Quite a bit of the paper in the early tour(buddhas, fractals white un-perf) was layed properly. So not all of the batches have been skimped on, but enough to bitch.

The problem is the price. At Bonnaroo there was a ton of acid there. The prices were way to high, but I thought mabye its just because there's so much demand and it would quickly go down as tour flooded.
Instead of opening up the spicket and flooding the hell ot of tour, which would have dropped prices were they belong it seems that some folks are just sitting on the juice. Prices have droped a little but nowere near the place they should be. I think its totaly fucking wrong for a person to pay 5$ a hit let alone 10$. The answer I see is to flood the lot with silver and lavander so that kids got no choice ,but to lower it back to 2 for 5$.
Those are not decisions I'm part off. All I can do is bitch.

As for the future who knows. Hopefully the Dead will tour again and the good people that still produce the love will see the errors of management this summer and change. Hopefully me and my friends won't have to watch something we view so sacred be destroyed. Alot of people work many, many years selflessly to spread LSD. Some dedicated parts of there life in prison and didn't bitch about there loss because they believed so much in the power of LSD to help our species and all the life we are in contact with.


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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InvisiblePapaverS
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Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: chinacat72]
    #1779372 - 08/04/03 07:34 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

When I came on tour there was a ton of old people who were kind and showed the youngsters the value of LSD and spreading it around.




There is indeed quite a value to having kind old people around to provide some guidance. I was lucky enough to have more than a few of these mentors in my youth, on a lot of levels, several decades ago, and I think that a lack of that kind of guidance, is bound to lead to all kinds of trouble... :frown:


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: Papaver]
    #1779410 - 08/04/03 07:46 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Historically, powerfull mind altering substances have been under the controll of a guru of some sort, like a shaman. Modern times have relenquished control of powerful chemical and organic allies to "the market". People today just don't have the proper social construct to appreciate the magic, and so, consequently, it has become just another consumer product.


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Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
  / \


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Offlinedibbles
Just a normalguy with nothingto lose.

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 554
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1779472 - 08/04/03 08:00 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

To bad philanthropist-dealers are about as common as unicorns and ducks that lay golden eggs. I envy the stories I read of the past dead shows and such, hopefully it will change, we can only hope...


--------------------
You've succumb to an empty fate, your false prophets are gone, your life,meaningless, your heart and head broken, and we're all laughing.


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: Papaver]
    #1779555 - 08/04/03 08:31 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

papaver said:
Quote:

When I came on tour there was a ton of old people who were kind and showed the youngsters the value of LSD and spreading it around.




There is indeed quite a value to having kind old people around to provide some guidance. I was lucky enough to have more than a few of these mentors in my youth, on a lot of levels, several decades ago, and I think that a lack of that kind of guidance, is bound to lead to all kinds of trouble... :frown: 






do you guys realize that you are now the next generation of elders. i dont know how youre mentors spread the knowledge. but i think that back then when the magic was happening they devoted their whole lives to it.why risk years of the spread of lsd  and then move on  and complain about how things are goin. a family is a family forever right.  but really i think that a powerful lsd experiece is enough to bring back the magic and get rid of the psuedohippines yuppies . after what happend this summer the family should know that a flood is whats necesary of good acid too. i think the fact that lavender and amber exist is ridiculus maybe silver too. if lsd is so sacred to them why not produce needlepoint  and fluff only and flood the lots with those im sure that will bring the magic back.but if they cant then whats the point anymore


edit. and also ive asked this before and its never been answerd .. the dead wont be around forever the lot scene is dead. an nationwide network and annominos mail would be the best way to continiosly flood the whole nation. the dead might never tour like they did before we cant relly on that anymore
 


Edited by mindcandy (08/04/03 08:41 PM)


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: buckwheat]
    #1779569 - 08/04/03 08:36 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I always thought acid was way underpriced at $5 a hit, not that I minded p[aying that, shit I used to get a ten strip for $10!

But still, compare a hit of acid to a night of drinking or smoking or rolling or snortin coke, and you will find that even $10 a hit is a bargain...

I loved the old school prices, but I knew they wouldnt last forever, especially when you got a new genration of dumb kids payin $25 for an e tab that is 90% speed...


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OfflineCherk
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: chinacat72]
    #1779571 - 08/04/03 08:37 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe it's just a matter of talkign to some of the new kids before giving them acid.  Almost like an interview, hehe, it's sad it has to come to that but maybe it's what the scene needs.  I'm sure there's plenty of people like me who dream of giving away doses to every person in sight, its just a matter of finding the right people.

This summer was my first summer in the scene and my first Dead show :smile:  I may have been lucky but all the people I talked to who were selling doses were friendly and selling $5 hits.  2 for $5 would be nice though :smile:

As soon as my life permits me to I'd love to go on tour and spread the love. :smile:  Money doesn't really have an impact on me.  All I need is food, shelter, and a sense of security to be happy.   

I think what the scene needs is some kind of reminder of what it's really about.  Love.  Money has to strong of a grip on some people which prevents them from experiencing love.  I remember in the lots I saw people who did not belong there selling "hippy burritos" for $5.  All are welcome but I feel nothing but anguish towards the yuppies trying to make a buck by capatalizing off loving people.


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1779675 - 08/04/03 09:27 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Historically, powerfull mind altering substances have been under the controll of a guru of some sort, like a shaman. Modern times have relenquished control of powerful chemical and organic allies to "the market". People today just don't have the proper social construct to appreciate the magic, and so, consequently, it has become just another consumer product.




Wow! The commodification of sacrament in a society where the youth control a consumer-based commerce; while their parents slave away at jobs to give them more discretionary income; and the old folks are stored retirement facilities awaiting disposal...

You paint a bleak, but accurate picture...


--------------------


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: Papaver]
    #1779813 - 08/04/03 10:08 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

"Old people should be studied, so we can find out what organs and fluids can be extracted from them."


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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1779976 - 08/04/03 11:01 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

As someone who is still in their thirties, I find that statement funny... :wink:


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

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Posts: 2,915
Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: whiterasta]
    #1780384 - 08/05/03 01:37 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

whiterasta said: Now am I just an old paranoid or does this ring a little too true?:




You seem paranoid. I think a more likely explanation is that the product was hyped so that a lot of people would purchase the drug. Giving them shitty hits would save on expenses, thus increasing the profit margin.

Why would anyone simply out for profits care about destroying the mystique of LSD? They don't. Hell, they probably would want to promote the mysticism behind LSD! They want to sell LSD because they know it's scarce, it's a smugglers dream, and it represents potential huge amounts of profit. I don't think this had anything to do with the mysticism associated with LSD at all.

Also, I think that LSD users who see any sort of mysticism associated with LSD are in the minority. In real life (before I'd met any shroomerites), I was the closest LSD user that I knew to seeing any myticism in the drug at all (yes, me). Everyone else I knew who used LSD took it because it made you see things that weren't there with minimal mind altering effects. IMO, the mysticism behind LSD exists mostly on online forums, which represent the minority of LSD users.


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1780387 - 08/05/03 01:40 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said: it has become just another consumer product.




I agree. In my experience, the majority of LSD users take it for recreational purposes and would likely laugh at any sort of suggestion that it was in any way useful for mystical, philosophical or spiritual purposes.


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: Papaver]
    #1780393 - 08/05/03 01:45 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

papaver said: You paint a bleak, but accurate picture...




Depends what you consider bleak. You're the one who painted the image of the parents on, remember. I favour the demystification of LSD and find any mysticism surrounding the drug annoying and laughable. If I'm going to buy acid I don't want some goof babbling at me about having mystical experiences. Sorry, but I prefer looking at LSD as chemical entertainment which you can purchase.

(or chemical "art", if you like, because it can be interesting)


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OfflineCherk
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1780430 - 08/05/03 02:02 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by Smoker For Peace


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

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Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Cherk]
    #1780479 - 08/05/03 02:30 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by Phencyclidine


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Anonymous

Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1780552 - 08/05/03 03:17 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I agree, this summer was a BIG disappointment, after hearing all the talk of the silver summer I was pumped up. $6-10 a hit is ridiculous but i'd pay it right now, I've had one real hit this year that came from bonnaroo and I've been to 2 dead shows and found NO real cid, this is bullshit, I got ripped at last years terrapin station show at alpine too. I got completely disappointed this summer, if there is cid out there it's being distributed like SHIT people are charging outrageous amounts and most of it's fake, I remember like back in 2000 NO ONE had fake cid it was all real what the fuck is happening, people are turning shitty! I'm just super pissed as I traveled all over more for acid than the dead and still came up with nothing, i'm almost to the point where i don't think it'll ever be back again, the silver summer was bullshit cause they're isn't shit to be found and if it is it's a ripoff!! whoever has cid, have fun tripping while I sit here thinking of what could've been, they're obviouslly isn't much around like was previously said, I could actually get shittons at the PHISH show in 98 and the dead is supposed to be the band that would have cid on tour so this is just bullshit. I give up i don't see myself being enlightened anytime soon.

dlag


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

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Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: ]
    #1780564 - 08/05/03 03:26 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

It's amazing how cheap the drug is even at "retail" level. It's entirely possible that if the shortage continues for long enough and people start charging $10 / hit that this could become the new standard price. After a while, if people keep charging $10, nobody will complain about it anymore and everyone will come to accept it.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1780596 - 08/05/03 03:51 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Can you describe the most intense acid trip you've ever had?


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Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
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Invisibletomatoes
you say tomatoe

Registered: 06/13/03
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1781142 - 08/05/03 09:39 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

deleted worthless negativity and false assumptions.

Phencyclidine, a look at my bookself and you'd see how one might get a little defensive. sorry.


Edited by tomatoes (08/05/03 08:30 PM)


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1781193 - 08/05/03 10:03 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

It's amazing how cheap the drug is even at "retail" level



Lets see 10$ a hit for 20 mcgs=50,000 hits/500,000$/gram

Quote:

It's amazing how cheap the drug is even at "retail" level. 




I am finished with the whole thing, what once was will not be again, and what is to come I'll have no part.

All I will say is it used to be different................. :confused:
WR:rasta:
PS good bye my sacred freind,I am so sorry that this is the legacy left.We tried our best while we worked your word and when we became too old and tired we tried to leave it in good hands,WE HAVE FAILED!Now only God  can save man as he is destroying the means to save himself.You gave us the tools in nature and when they weren't enough you gave Albert his problem child(Hoffman's Jesus)and now it too has been crucified.
Again good bye,you will always be in my heart and soul,and I promise MY children will know of a better time that was.
whiterasta

 


--------------------
To old for this place


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Posts: 8,946
Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: whiterasta]
    #1781241 - 08/05/03 10:22 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Oh c'mon guys, you know that's not completely true.

All that is needed is a good and really potent (and large) batch of the happy paper product.

There are plenty of cool youngin's out there that are perfect for this work.

I place the future of this all (Still) in the hands of the elders.

Load up on crystals and fucking drench this nation, otherwise, well basically everything WR is saying will happen.

I place this still in the hands of the older heads; they are the ones up on top that (Still) make this happen.

WR is just thirsty, and with good reason.
-Ever since Jerry died the elder people who move the juice fucking died with him i think. And then it tapered off until the night that the clock struck 12 on the year 2000.
-I'm telling you people, the world changed a lot on that day.

Keep shroomin WR,

There are still young people out there willing to do the good work,
The older peoples vision just fucking died when Jerry did.. :heartpump: :heartpump: :heartpump: :heartpump:

Keep shroomin,
GGreatOne234 


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Invisibletomatoes
you say tomatoe

Registered: 06/13/03
Posts: 180
Loc: and i say . . .
Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: whiterasta]
    #1781326 - 08/05/03 10:57 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

whiterasta said:

I am finished with the whole thing, what once was will not be again, and what is to come I'll have no part.

All I will say is it used to be different................. :confused:
WR:rasta:
PS good bye my sacred freind,I am so sorry that this is the legacy left.We tried our best while we worked your word and when we became too old and tired we tried to leave it in good hands,WE HAVE FAILED!Now only God  can save man as he is destroying the means to save himself.You gave us the tools in nature and when they weren't enough you gave Albert his problem child(Hoffman's Jesus)and now it too has been crucified.
Again good bye,you will always be in my heart and soul,and I promise MY children will know of a better time that was.
whiterasta




hmmm. do i hear violins singing requiem for a whiterasta? lol just kidding.

the risks today are so much greater too than they've ever been. can't forget that. 


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Posts: 8,946
Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: tomatoes]
    #1781388 - 08/05/03 11:20 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah you are right that the risks are higher, but shit..they really aren't.

The LSD has not changed, and neither have the coppers.

What HAS changed, is that the fucking grateful dead went on tour this year and nobody sent the fucking doses with them!!!!!!!

Now, c'mon now, there are people in control of the crystals and they are still being made; and you just KNOW those people KNOW that we are steaming after this kind of shit happens.

Excuse the language, but the grateful fucking dead didnt bring any doses with them this year and frankly i'm fucking pissed about it.

Keep shroomin,
GGreatOne234


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InvisibleAdom
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #1781425 - 08/05/03 11:36 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Old Timers Giving up Faith??? :shake: :confused: :crazy: :sad: :oogle:

I don't know what to say anymore, I am to young to understand all this..... mass confusion coming in....
:confused: :confused:


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1781439 - 08/05/03 11:44 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Can you describe the most intense acid trip you've ever had?




I've posted it here before. I do have a long text file copy but all the identifying details are still in it. I thought I had a version that was safe for posting but I can't find it. Anyway, the most intense acid trip I had occured on Friday, December 13, 1996. I took 4 hits of acid. It kicked in hard in under and hour.

I'll make this a short story. Basically, I had a friend with me and I dropped over night. I thought my dad was suspicious (I was only 16), that I was on something. I'd dropped at 11PM. By 1AM I was hallucinating that I could see through walls. Tables were up and jumping around. I kept hearing this really loud metallic thumping noise that kept accelerating and then decelerating. I felt severe anxiety. At 2AM, as I started peaking we went to the park. My friend merely mentioned the police in our conversation. Then on the way home he pointed out someone in a closed store across the street. I began hallucinating and believing that this was a robbery in progress. I clearly saw the man with a gun. It was now daylight (yes, even though it was 2AM). The alarm was ringing loudly. The parking lot was full of cars. People were watching this guy. All of this was a hallucination.
I got home and for half an hour I bugged my friend about the robbery and he insisted that it never occcured. At some point he fell asleep and then the robbber was in my house. Suddenly the robber morphed into my friend's body and my friend's jacket had become my dead friend on the floor. I quickly realized this hadn't occured. I keep hallucinating that the police come to my house because I'd witnessed the robbery. I also hallucinate the robber coming to kill me. This was very frightening.
Then it hits me that I have to piss, so I go to go downstairs, but I become aware that the robber was in my basement. Then I think that my friend was the robber (remember the earlier hallucination). I wanted to get a baseball bat but I was too afraid to go to the basement. I went upstairs. I was about to knock on my parents bedroom door (by now it's 4AM) and ask them about the robbery that had never occured. Instead, I decide to piss first. While washing my hands I took one look at those huge pupils and realize that none of it had actually occur, that in fact, I'd simply hallucinated everything and imagined it.
I was still hallucinating strong. Alice in wonderland type vision. Still had a few full hallucinations (one of which involved two heads playing a card game with each other). The trip lasted about 13 hours.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Adom]
    #1781452 - 08/05/03 11:49 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

PCP wrote:
"IMO, the mysticism behind LSD exists mostly on online forums, which represent the minority of LSD users. "

Now THAT is total bullshit. Although I will say that in my experience with the new generation of kids, fewer and fewer people are seeing the mysticism in LSD unless they are led towards it by an old timer.

But the problem isnt with LSD, its with our culture in general. Nothing is sacred anymore, everything is just a product to be consumed. This goes for music, art, and literature as well.

As far as LSD availability goes, I think it is all a question of brainwashed children not having the balls to set up a lab. LSD is easy for any 2nd or 3rd year organic chemistry student to make. The ingredients are closely watched but they can be extracted from nonwatched chems (eg- petroleum ether from shampoo)

I can tell you this: if LSD availability and prices doesn't improve by the time I'm out of school and makin money, I will personally fund and set up a lab as soon as I have the money to protect it.


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: tomatoes]
    #1781454 - 08/05/03 11:50 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Surely psychedelic inspired art doesn't say much about the relative numbers of people who take psychedelics for spiritual / mystical reasons compared to those who take psychedelic for recreation, because those who take psychedelics just for fun would probably be far less likely to write books and paint pictures about what they consider to be a chemical amusement ride.

I typically never defined my own experiences as simply "getting fucked up". "Getting fucked up" represents the exact same thing as "altering consciousness",. "getting high", or "expanding consciousness (with psychedelics", except that using the term "fucked up" is pejorative. Whatever phrase you find appropriate is fine by me. I happen to think that "mind expansion" is terribly pretentious. I think that "fucked up" is far too negative. I think that "tripping" is pretty neutral so I typically used that to describe my experiences.

EDIT - There's no need to apologize. Altering the thread would have been just as good. Don't bother demeaning yourself here. It's cool.


Edited by Phencyclidine (08/05/03 08:35 PM)


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: whiterasta]
    #1781467 - 08/05/03 11:53 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

whiterasta said: Lets see 10$ a hit for 20 mcgs=50,000 hits/500,000$/gram




You forgot to factor in potentcy. Express that as units of "dollars / trip / hour" and you'll find LSD is right up there.


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InvisibleArmFromTheAbyss
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1781471 - 08/05/03 11:54 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

It's much more than just visuals. :oogle:

re: your trip report. 


--------------------


Edited by ArmFromTheAbyss1 (08/05/03 11:57 AM)


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1781675 - 08/05/03 12:47 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
PCP wrote:
"IMO, the mysticism behind LSD exists mostly on online forums, which represent the minority of LSD users. "

Now THAT is total bullshit.




Like I said, every LSD user I'd met in real life before meeting shroomerites would have laughed at the idea that there was anything mystical about LSD. I've also corresponded with plenty of people online who report the same thing (that they've never met anyone IRL who believes that there's anything mystical to LSD). I can vividly recall three older people I've met who used to use LSD, and none of them did it for mystical reasons. Two of them grew up in the sixties. One said he did it because it was interesting and fun. The other said he did it because it was fun and helped him stay awake during overnight shifts. They both had friends who had used it during the sixties and none of them did it for mystical reasons. Not only have I never met anyone IRL who's thought there's anything mystical about LSD (including people who were using it in the sixties), I've never met anyone IRL who's met anyone who thought there was anything mystical about LSD (not including shroomerites). Everything I've seen leads me to believe that online forums are simply a very unique place. If your experience suggests otherwise, that's fine. It's not bullshit though, my opinion is that it's a minority of people who believe anything mystical is associated with LSD use.

Why do you think that the lack of sacred objects has anything to do with consumer culture? I don't believe in things being sacred because I consider science to be the most logical way to interact with my surroundings. Science doesn't address mysticism, nor does it address issues of sacredness, so neither do I. LSD can't be sacred in my eyes, but that has absolutely nothing to do with consumer culture. The fact that LSD is entertainment that can be purchased does have something to do with consumer culture.


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: ArmFromTheAbyss]
    #1781690 - 08/05/03 12:51 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, I know it's more than visuals. When I call a drug a hallucinogen or psychedelic I am referring to a drug that causes hallucinations and sometimes states of mind resembling mental illness.

When I say that LSD is minimal in its mind altering properties, I mean that even when you're hallucinating quite strongly there are other psychedelic drugs that at correspondingly intense levels of hallucinations would alter your thought process far far far more (eg// the anticholinergics and dissociative psychedelics). Thus, someone who's interested in simply hallucinating and wants to minimize the mind altering aspects would stick to LSD, instead of taking datura or PCP.


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1781813 - 08/05/03 01:29 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

In your life mabye you havn't met people who believe in the powers of LSD, but its a big world. Hang around in Northern California or Oregon and see who the majority is. Were everywere in certian places. Go to a rainbow gathering and be around tens of thousands of people united by a set of values instilled by the psychedelic experiance. Tens of thousands of us used to travel around the country 4 times a year.

I think I somewhat understand your point of view. Your taking the scientific approach to your belief systems. You rely on empirical evidence. Well we don't have scientific journals publishing articles on mystical transformation via LSD. We have scattered ancedotol evidence in the testimony of those involved.

You can believe it or not. Those that have been in contact with it and the culture it produces have very strong beliefs about LSD. Those that have read about it or had a few weak experiances are more enclined to be sceptical. I find myself being very skeptical of most information I recieve. I'm not skeptical of LSD at all anymore. I believe in it and always will.

I hold LSD to the highest value. I don't think we get another chance.
To me it trully is from above. To the skeptic my viewpoints may seem as those of a delusional madman. To me the skeptic appears as a blind man. We all have different points of view and trying to convince each other is futile. It's not even possible to try and describe the experiance with language let alone convince others that it exists.

My advice to anybody who wants to find out if LSD is the real deal is to take a couple thousands micrograms in the mountians.


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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InvisibleHelp on the Way
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1781917 - 08/05/03 01:53 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

dude...i have never heard of an acid trip described like that


--------------------
:shocked: *Divine Moments of Truth* :shocked:


"Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon

"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead

"Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter


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InvisibleHelp on the Way
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: whiterasta]
    #1781935 - 08/05/03 02:00 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

My experience for the silver summer was i had 1 hit of fractal that my friend got from phish...but at 100 mics it wasn't really what i'd consider a trip. I'd need like 3 to trip and that is like 20 bucks for an acid trip. I went to the dead concert and could find every drug but acid. For me acid has pretty much been gone for the last 2+ years..and it has definatly dampened my expectations on LSD's existence and the movement. I have given up. There is only so much time and effort you can put into searching for acid before you realize its dead and not worth the time anymore (i never thought id hear myself say that)


--------------------
:shocked: *Divine Moments of Truth* :shocked:


"Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon

"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead

"Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter


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InvisibleHelp on the Way
Slipknot420

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Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: chinacat72]
    #1781949 - 08/05/03 02:03 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

chinacat72 said:
To the skeptic my viewpoints may seem as those of a delusional madman. To me the skeptic appears as a blind man. We all have different points of view and trying to convince each other is futile. It's not even possible to try and describe the experiance with language let alone convince others that it exists.




I thnk that is very well said.


--------------------
:shocked: *Divine Moments of Truth* :shocked:


"Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon

"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead

"Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: chinacat72]
    #1782227 - 08/05/03 03:15 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

chinacat72 said: I hold LSD to the highest value. I don't think we get another chance.
To me it trully is from above. To the skeptic my viewpoints may seem as those of a delusional madman. To me the skeptic appears as a blind man.




I don't believe that LSD is mystical but that doesn't mean that I disbelieve. I consider it possible that LSD is a divine psychedelic. Like I said I just consider it to be outside the realm of what I can verify. If you consider LSD to be mystical, then that's up to you. It seems that you're willing to make conclusions about LSD based on a different philosophy than I'm willing to employ. We just need to be sure that if we're trying to evaluate LSD together, we can agree on which philosophical grounds. I'll tend to use science, though once in a while I will take a different approach, though usually only for effect.


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen [Re: Help on the Way]
    #1782250 - 08/05/03 03:18 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Described like what? Minimal in its mind altering properties? I've heard a few people describe it like that. It's also pretty easy to infer based on people's reports. A lot of people report that they like acid better than other psychedelics because it doesn't alter their minds as much as other psychedelics (IOW, LSD isn't uncomfortably strong in terms of psychotomimetic effects, whereas other drugs leave the user too "fucked up"). In fact, I consider this the typical characterization of LSD.


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Offlineiloveraving
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Help on the Way]
    #1782276 - 08/05/03 03:27 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I would have to say the "Silver Summer" is better then the last 2 summers. On other drugs, prices go up every year. Did everyone really expect acid to stay cheap? The problem with these kids is... they're not hippies. They dont know the word "give". They view LSD as a drug, and if they werent selling acid they'd be selling something else. They are not kind, I have been friends with this kid since 8th grade... He wanted me to go on tour with him, but I didnt, I just scored a good job and didnt want to give it up. When I saw him 2 months later, totally different person, in a bad way. I was shocked he didnt dose me for free. I guess I'm thankful he sold me strips for $40, now that I read some other people's experiences. I dont know why they sell that greedy person I once called friend sheets. He doesnt even have love for the dead! I thought I taught him well, back in the "White fluff/south park print" days. All that kindness given.. no acid karma has come my way. But hey, at least the acid is there, and thats all that really matters. The bitching about prices and quality comes later :smile:




Gimme a coupla years, I'm starting my first organic chem class in september. My organization will be ran like a real family, maybe I'll even dress up like santa... oh, I gotta stop daydreaming and go study. Peace.


--------------------
Daisy Wedding Favors


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1782862 - 08/05/03 06:53 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Thats what I was trying to say. People just have different points of view. I think the scientific view is great and is what I use to make alot of observations regarding the physical world we live in. When it comes to the spiritual world the scientific view doesn't cut it for me. I believe in the magic of LSD whether Its provable or not. My experiances are my guide in the spiritual realm.

I have nothing against the scientific approach to life. As a person making the choice between med school or psychology grad school I realize the value of the scientific method. I use it every day in research. It is the search for the truth about reality.
My chioce to become a psychologist or psychiatrist is solely for the purpose of helping with research in the value of psychedelics. I have seen so many people overcome mental problems with LSD. This leads me to my 20 year quest to validate the psychedelic experiance. It used to be turning on the underground with LSD and saying fuck society. Now I have come to the point were I believe that the only true way to validate the psychedelic experiance is through the medical community. There is research from the old days(before LSD was sceduale 1) that shows the potential of psychedelics in treating certian mental disorders(esspecially addiction). There is also a movement from in the medical communty itself in showing intrest in psychedelics. We have studys underway right now in the US. These studys have the potential to show the safty and promise of psychedelics and make it easier for future research that studys the benifit of psychedelics theraputically(were I believe the real benifits are).
Its a longshot ,but something I believe in enough to dedicate my life to.
By proving validity through the medical community it's proved through science. By proving it though science it gives it power over the politics that currently hold it hostage.

I'm not talking about proving LSD can provide mystical experiance through science. I don't think science is capable of that. What I do think is provable is that people who take LSD under the right conditions have an experiance that can have a long lasting ,positive and life enriching experiance.

We all have different points of view on the world and especially drugs. I'm just trying to give you an idea of were mine comes from.


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: chinacat72]
    #1783031 - 08/05/03 08:22 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

chinacat72 said: I'm not talking about proving LSD can provide mystical experiance through science. I don't think science is capable of that. What I do think is provable is that people who take LSD under the right conditions have an experiance that can have a long lasting ,positive and life enriching experiance.

We all have different points of view on the world and especially drugs. I'm just trying to give you an idea of were mine comes from.




I think we're pretty much in complete agreement. I understand mysticism but I'm just someone who won't talk about it with other people. AFAIK, the definition of mysticism makes anything mystical out of the realm of science. To me, mystical experiences simply aren't as obvious as other people claim they are, so I refuse to touch them, generally.

It's interesting that you want to be a psychologist or psychiatrist. My past use of psychedelics and my interest in mental illness has led me to studying pharmaceuticals. I'd like to research mental illness and develop antipsychotic drugs.


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: killing a dream?it could happen *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1783134 - 08/05/03 08:54 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Yo Bitches;  :devil:

My dude has fractals;  :devil:

Come into my world;  :devil:

Come follow the light;  :devil:

Click here to score; http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...o=2&fpart=1 


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