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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #11003039 -

Annapurna1 said:
luvdemlies said:
Annapurna1 said:
and i trust that you think the government fucked up torture when they stopped doing it...


Perhaps you could show me where I said the government not doing things was a problem for me, seeing as my continuing bitch with them is they do things they shouldn't.

Really Anna, you should remove that bug from your ass.


and you should remove your head from your ass...


Say hi to Aunt Flo for me.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: zorbman]
    #11003050 -

zorbman said:
Does that include government when conservative republicans are in charge?


A fuck up is a fuck up no matter who does it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (09/05/09 06:05 AM)

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Redstorm]
    #11003223 -

Redstorm said:
Quote:
polls have consistently shown that most americans trust the govt when the govt snatches them off the street and tells them "trust us..your a terrorist..were going to hold you under torture for the rest of your life"...similarly..they trust the govt to spy on all their emails and phone calls without a probable cause.. etc...


I assume you will link us to these polls?


Since your entire post rests on this part above, I will continue to wait for you to link to these polls.  If you can't, I expect you to admit you are wrong.

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Redstorm]
    #11003283 -

The problems with government healthcare are pretty basic.  The more "help" you receive from government the more control you are giving government over your life.  Even beyond the fact that that government run healthcare in America would be slow and inefficient compared to the private sector I think that is most important.


Giving government control over your life is apathetic behavior.  Humans can be better than that.



We would be far better off ACCEPTING RESPONSIBILITY for OUR OWN LIVES.



SELF DISCIPLINED RESPONSE ABILITY = REAL FREEDOM


Asking for "entitlements", "welfare", "free shit" from the government destroys personal responsibility and leads to degenerate slavery.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Redstorm]
    #11003731 -

Redstorm said:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
polls have consistently shown that most americans trust the govt when the govt snatches them off the street and tells them "trust us..your a terrorist..were going to hold you under torture for the rest of your life"...similarly..they trust the govt to spy on all their emails and phone calls without a probable cause.. etc...


I assume you will link us to these polls?


She polled all three of her friends. They agree.



Quote:
Since your entire post rests on this part above, I will continue to wait for you to link to these polls.  If you can't, I expect you to admit you are wrong.


Are you always a dreamer?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Redstorm]
    #11004860 -

Redstorm said:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
polls have consistently shown that most americans trust the govt when the govt snatches them off the street and tells them "trust us..your a terrorist..were going to hold you under torture for the rest of your life"...similarly..they trust the govt to spy on all their emails and phone calls without a probable cause.. etc...


I assume you will link us to these polls?


Since your entire post rests on this part above, I will continue to wait for you to link to these polls.  If you can't, I expect you to admit you are wrong.


because you asked for it ..

http://people-press.org/report/510/public-remains-divided-over-use-of-torture

the pew poll even shows that support for torture has actually increased after obama discontinued the policy...71% of americans refuse to rule it out altogether...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/25/poll.bush/index.html

59% of americans favoured the whole gamut of bu$hcos revocation of civil liberties from wiretapping to extrajudicial imprisonment under torture...

i dont consider rasmussen to be all that reliable..but they are still the most respected ..

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/november_2008/49_say_u_s_should_keep_guantanamo_prison_open

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/april_2009/58_oppose_further_investigation_of_u_s_torture_allegations

furthermore..the same pollsters are also showing a sharp swing to the far right over the past year on a variety of issues...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Edited by Annapurna1 (09/05/09 03:27 PM)

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11005022 -

Mr.Al said:
The problems with government healthcare are pretty basic.  The more "help" you receive from government the more control you are giving government over your life.  Even beyond the fact that that government run healthcare in America would be slow and inefficient compared to the private sector I think that is most important.


thats bullshit..because theres also the flipside that the less help you receive from government..the more control your giving private corporations over your life via the government...and unlike the government..you cant just simply vote private corporations out of power...bu$cos' torture regime was one result..and thats obviously giving the govt far more control over your life than any social or infrastructure programmes...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #11005152 -

Annapurna1 said:
Seuss said:
> and at least in my mind..backing up bu$hco is inconsistent with "not to trust the govt"...

Disregarding many other errors of your claims, the big difference here is that terrorists (at least the one Bush was going after) happen to live in other countries


ummm..jose padilla...



Yes, clearly an innocent man who was unfairly subjected to the excruciating torture of isolation.
CLEARLY innocent.


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #11005263 -

actually..padilla was acquitted on the most serious charges...but padillas' innocence vs guilt doesnt matter so much as the fact that bu$hco denied his due process for 4 years...and he will be one of the lucky ones if romney or ghouliani should ever become POTUS...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #11005420 -

Annapurna1 said:
Mr.Al said:
The problems with government healthcare are pretty basic.  The more "help" you receive from government the more control you are giving government over your life.  Even beyond the fact that that government run healthcare in America would be slow and inefficient compared to the private sector I think that is most important.


thats bullshit..because theres also the flipside that the less help you receive from government..the more control your giving private corporations over your life via the government...and unlike the government..you cant just simply vote private corporations out of power...bu$cos' torture regime was one result..and thats obviously giving the govt far more control over your life than any social or infrastructure programmes...


Cant vote them out but you can choose not to give them your business.


--------------------
Insanity in individuals is something rare -- but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule. -Nietzche

What luck for the rulers that men do not think. -Adolf Hitler

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Redstorm]
    #11005577 -

I saw on the news two Canadian kids were recently released from gitmo. I think they were 11 and 13 at the time of incarceration and were picked up at some US airport... Any comments on that?


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: ScavengerType]
    #11006847 -

of the 779 prisoners held in gitmo only 3 have ever been convicted of an offense.
source: True Stories 01 September 2009
Channel: More4+1


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #11008148 -

A welfare state promotes poverty.  Government run healthcare is more inefficient and full of red tape than what can be bought in the private market.  Government would "pay" for such a program simply by creating new money. 


The people who make the least money in America would be hurt the most by government run healthcare because cost of living would increase due to the increase in the money supply to fund it.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: ScavengerType]
    #11008262 -

Quote:
of the 779 prisoners held in gitmo only 3 have ever been convicted of an offense.


That has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. However, you STILL seem unable to grasp that they are not being held at Gitmo because they necessarily did anything criminal (althought it is not impossible that some of them may have done so), but because they are enemy combatants who must be kept from returning to the battle.

How anyone who has been reading this forum as long as you have can continue to fail to grasp this incredibly simple concept is just staggering.





Phred


--------------------

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Phred]
    #11008283 -

so those 11 and 13 year old kids nabbed in the airport, likely because they had the wrong names... were enemy combatants?


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: ScavengerType]
    #11008291 -

Again, this has nothing to do with the topic of THIS thread. There are dozens of other threads dealing with this subject. Bump one if you want your lack of knowledge on the subject paraded in front of the audience yet again.



Phred


--------------------

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Phred]
    #11008649 -

Yes it's directly to do with this thread, because it is saying as Anna cited polls to back up that Americans on average trust the government to imprison children without access to legal process.

Quote:
if you want your lack of knowledge on the subject paraded in front of the audience yet again.


Coming from you I'll consider that a complement. You wouldn't know a coherent and knowledgeable political argument if it walked up to you and said "Hello, I'm a coherent and knowledgeable political argument and I'm about to bite you in the ass" and then proceed to do so.

oh and also can I get a source on that? I know you just love providing them.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: ScavengerType]
    #11008805 -

ScavengerType said:
I saw on the news two Canadian kids were recently released from gitmo. I think they were 11 and 13 at the time of incarceration and were picked up at some US airport... Any comments on that?


Any links on that?


--------------------

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11009147 -

Mr.Al said:
A welfare state promotes poverty.  Government run healthcare is more inefficient and full of red tape than what can be bought in the private market.  Government would "pay" for such a program simply by creating new money. 


The people who make the least money in America would be hurt the most by government run healthcare because cost of living would increase due to the increase in the money supply to fund it.


although free-market idealogues with their heads up their bums like you are loathe to admit it.. there are in fact some goods and services that the govt can produce more efficiently than private corporations..such as roads and bridges.. and apparently also healthcare...other countries that have such programmes spend less per capita on healthcare and have longer life expectancies than the US...

thats not exactly a revelation.. but at issue is whether or not we should make healthcare more efficient as such..or whether the current pricing system somehow better serves our economy and our society.. more specificially..what to do with all the ppl that would have otherwise died...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: "americans distrust government"... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #11009346 -

Uh-huh...

Where do you suppose the money for government healthcare would come from?


Why do you surmise Canadians come down to the United States for time sensitive services?

We have veterans and indians in America that have government run healthcare.  It is a fucking nightmare!

We would have a few well connected mega-corporations cash in with government run healthcare.  Competition would be destroyed and prices would go up.  People wouldn't care because they wouldn't see the costs.



What you utterly fail to see is that the cost of government run healthcare would be paid by monetizing more debt.  Those poor folk that bleeding hearts wax poetic about would see their cost of living increase.


It is SOCIALIST ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS that are bankrupting the U.S. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND SIMPLE MATH?


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Edited by Mr.Al (09/06/09 01:21 PM)

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