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OfflineMetaShroom
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How much government?
    #2678897 - 05/14/04 05:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

How much do you like other people telling you what you can and cannot do? Should there be no government? Or should there be a lower level of government than we have now (less tax, less services) but still be laws enforceable by the state using violence?
how much government?
You may choose only one
There should be NO government - I call myself a libertarian
There should be NO government - I call myself an anarchist
There should be a a very limited government performing a minimum of essential functions
Everythings just great as it is
I am a stalinist/trotskyite/fascist
I am Sir Tokes-A-Lot


Votes accepted from (05/14/04 02:00 AM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,965
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Re: How much government? [Re: MetaShroom]
    #2678918 - 05/14/04 05:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The libertarian party platform does not call for no government. As such.... your poll is crap.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineMetaShroom
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Re: How much government? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2678927 - 05/14/04 06:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

That option is for people who want no government, and call themselves libertarian. There is more to the word 'libertarian' than the Libertarian party that exists in the US. If you support the Libertarian party, and agree with them that there should be some government, then choose a different option other than the first 2  :rolleyes:


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OfflineAncalagon
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Registered: 07/30/02
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Re: How much government? [Re: MetaShroom]
    #2678968 - 05/14/04 06:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

There should be a a very limited government performing a minimum of essential functions, etc. I call myself Libertarian.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflineBleaK
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Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: How much government? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2679153 - 05/14/04 06:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i assume the sir tokes alot is the none of the above choice, and therefore its mine.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,965
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Re: How much government? [Re: BleaK]
    #2679875 - 05/14/04 10:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BleaK said:
i assume the sir tokes alot is the none of the above choice, and therefore its mine.



The STAL option is a Shroomery tradition.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBleaK
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Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: How much government? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2680523 - 05/15/04 01:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

BleaK said:
i assume the sir tokes alot is the none of the above choice, and therefore its mine.



The STAL option is a Shroomery tradition.




is it a purposefull tradition?


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: How much government? [Re: MetaShroom]
    #2681389 - 05/15/04 07:39 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

the problem of the today government is because it is apparted from the people, causing permanent confilcts of so called "politics/ans" and natural poltical trend of the entity.

But it is not the problem of the govenment itself, but only this pitty structure.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,965
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Re: How much government? [Re: BleaK]
    #2681410 - 05/15/04 08:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Only in the None Of The Above way. (as you thought)


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleLeViTY
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 1,988
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Re: How much government? [Re: MetaShroom]
    #2682077 - 05/15/04 01:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I hope one day we can figure out how to have a government more along the lines of Utopian Socialism...where everyone can be happy and left alone in our own little ideal societies.

/sigh

Unfortunately, this has a snowball's chance in hell of happening in America.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,965
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: How much government? [Re: LeViTY]
    #2682083 - 05/15/04 01:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Unfortunately, this has a snowball's chance in hell of happening in America.



Good thing. Socialism promotes mediocrity.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: How much government? [Re: MetaShroom]
    #2682084 - 05/15/04 01:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Over the years, I have come to deeply distrust government. Government functions should be limited as much as possible.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineAncalagon
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Registered: 07/30/02
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Re: How much government? [Re: LeViTY]
    #2682115 - 05/15/04 02:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I hope one day we can figure out how to have a government more along the lines of Utopian Socialism...where everyone can be happy and left alone in our own little ideal societies.



Think about what you're saying. Being left alone is exactly what DOES NOT happen in a Socialist society. The other extreme, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, is where you're truly left alone.


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OfflineMetaShroom
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Re: How much government? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2682152 - 05/15/04 02:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Quote:

I hope one day we can figure out how to have a government more along the lines of Utopian Socialism...where everyone can be happy and left alone in our own little ideal societies.



Think about what you're saying. Being left alone is exactly what DOES NOT happen in a Socialist society. The other extreme, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, is where you're truly left alone.




In laissez-faire capitalism there is no gaurantee you would be left alone by the government or anyone else. Similarly with socialism, it is possible to have socialism without having a government, so I think you are wrong in drawing a distinction between the two along those lines.


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Edited by MetaShroom (05/15/04 02:19 PM)


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OfflineAncalagon
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
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Re: How much government? [Re: MetaShroom]
    #2682248 - 05/15/04 02:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

In laissez-faire capitalism there is no gaurantee you would be left alone by the government or anyone else.



Once government starts interfering economically, it is no longer Laissez-Faire capitalism.
Quote:

Similarly with socialism, it is possible to have socialism without having a government, so I think you are wrong in drawing a distinction between the two along those lines.



Sure you're not referring to Communism? No matter what you call it, Socialism has some central authority that is initiating force against the populace, thus NOT leaving them alone. Feel free to enlighten me though, I'm by no means an expert on the subject.


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OfflineMetaShroom
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Re: How much government? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2682759 - 05/15/04 04:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Quote:

In laissez-faire capitalism there is no gaurantee you would be left alone by the government or anyone else.



Once government starts interfering economically, it is no longer Laissez-Faire capitalism.

Quote:

Similarly with socialism, it is possible to have socialism without having a government, so I think you are wrong in drawing a distinction between the two along those lines.



Sure you're not referring to Communism? No matter what you call it, Socialism has some central authority that is initiating force against the populace, thus NOT leaving them alone. Feel free to enlighten me though, I'm by no means an expert on the subject.




There are lots of definitions for 'scoialism' and 'communism'. To clarify what I meant was:
"Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy"

In a Laissez-Faire capitalistic society there will be a government, and it is possible, and maybe inevitable, for this government to interfere in peoples lives. For example the government would exist to retaliate against the initiaion of force by members of the society, and this would include theft and damage to property. So if someone is supposed to commit these acts, they could be put in prison against their will. You might agree with this, but certainly it is more authoritarian than a socialist society which has no government and no ownership of the means of production.

Therfore saying that socialism is invariably more authoritarian than laissez-faire capitalism is wrong.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: How much government? [Re: MetaShroom]
    #2683856 - 05/15/04 10:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry to say this, but your polls pretty rigged. Besides "There should be a a very limited government performing a minimum of essential functions," to a bunch of drug users and fringe society members all the other options suck, and most sane people want some sort of government.
I say most because there are exceptions, but I could see the outcome of this poll before I even voted. Maybe you could've been more specific, like
There should be no government
We should vote on one central strong leader
The people should vote on all issues
Everything's great as it is
We should live as individual groups without a central government
The government should control the people

And so forth, so that there are actually some appealing options


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinegrib
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Re: How much government? [Re: Ravus]
    #2691197 - 05/17/04 02:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The people should vote on all issues 




Yeah right... completly unrealistic. Few laws would ever be passed!

...hummm, on second thought  :thumbup:

:grin:


--------------------
<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: How much government? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2691914 - 05/17/04 05:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Over the years, I have come to deeply distrust government. Government functions should be limited as much as possible.




Although you're liberal as they come and you say that?


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: How much government? [Re: MetaShroom]
    #2691955 - 05/17/04 05:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Our government is far from ideal, but we do need some form of government. Because of the nature of politics, the government tends to allocate resources poorly; however, there are many things that government should do.
I voted "i am sir tokes-alot", because the other choices suck.


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