zen buddy said:

No offense intended, we all communicate differently and I don't believe that anyone has perfected communication.

Mufungo said:

... I say that people can have beliefs and no beliefs at the same time...

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To clarify, this is what I was talking about when I said it has nothing to do with semantics. It does not matter what definition you are using for the word belief, the above statement is literally impossible.

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Jethro Tull said:

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Human beings are just one of millions of different species of life on earth. We are nothing special in the eyes of creation. We are just legions in our own minds and have created myths to glorify ourselves not God. Are we intelligent beings?

We are special in the sense that we have a rational mind, but that is not a big deal, especially if you misuse it and spread deception, or do not use it at all.

The life of all animals below humans is fundamentally the same.

The creator has favored other life forms much more than human beings. Bacteria is by far the predominate life form on the planet. It is really their planet. Microbial life has been here longest, and there are more of them than anything else  now.

If mankind destroys itself, bacteria will survive and evolution will start over.

Bacteria are becoming resistant to all of our antibiotic drugs and may kill mankind off in the near future. We should put more money into winning that future war.

We are not more powerful than them. We have the brains, but they have the numbers. Their numbers could easily prevail over our intelligence if we do not start putting more of our resources into countering this coming war. It will be a real contest between David and Goliath, and the little guy won in that story.

Out of sight may be out of mind, but the truth is bacteria are everywhere, alive and conscious of life just as we are. If you look through a microscope at them, you can see for yourself. They eat and digest food, are born, die, reproduce, sleep, feel fear and feel pain just as we do. What makes us different, our minds? Right now we use our minds to fight wars, to destroy the environment, and to deceive ourselves. If anything we are using our mind to be less than they are. At least they live in the present and are more aware of life then mankind is now.

One of the ways we deceive ourselves is by thinking we are separate from other animal life on earth. The truth is we were them, and we are much like them now. The only real difference is we can be different if we learn the truth and the life. We are different only in knowledge and the ability to understand the world around us. If we do nothing with it, we are no different at all and will stay an animal.

Waste our advantage: Being thinking creatures is just a small difference, but this small difference can make all the difference if we use it. This is why we do not want to waste our intelligence believing that myths are the truth. It makes our greater intelligence useless and makes us no better than any other animal. If we are not any better than an animal, we will continue to be one.
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Page 92 of The Present (with religion) at http://www.thetruthcontest.com

Acknowledging our true past is the next step in human evolution.  Not only did we evolve from lower animals, we were them.  Instead, we think we are separate from the evolutionary cycle, the crown of creation.  We may be the crown of creation, but that is only because we are at the top of the food chain.  If we do not use our rational minds to overcome deception and embrace reality, we are just playing make believe.  Use it or lose it.

Are we intelligent beings?

It seems to me that most people are just monkeys with car keys. 

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Mufungo said:

I heard your point of view loud and clear mate. I just don't agree with it and I have been putting forward an alternative. Your need to be understood and respected is interesting, and evidently upsetting to you. How have I been any more disrespectful than what you or anyone else has been? But oh well, all the best with that.

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My point exactly.

Rahz said:

But I think even within that phrase, there is room for argument, though the truth of the argument might not be the point. It makes sense to me that beliefs are a practical matter, and cannot encompass all that we are, unless all that we are is a set of ideas which evolve over time. I do not want to speak for others, I pitched in because I share an interest. Often I have made comments such as "Beliefs are nasty things", "Beliefs are insufficient", so I feel I know where the original comment was coming from, and was not hypocritical in context. However, it seems I have taken my disdain for beliefs and belief systems a bit to far in other matters... and if someone believes in something, it would behoove me to not make assumptions regarding the nature of the belief. Of course, being able to explore the basis for a belief is ideal, but when this is not possible, it might be best to say "I don't know", and leave it at that.

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Mufungo said:

Rahz said:

But I think even within that phrase, there is room for argument, though the truth of the argument might not be the point. It makes sense to me that beliefs are a practical matter, and cannot encompass all that we are, unless all that we are is a set of ideas which evolve over time. I do not want to speak for others, I pitched in because I share an interest. Often I have made comments such as "Beliefs are nasty things", "Beliefs are insufficient", so I feel I know where the original comment was coming from, and was not hypocritical in context. However, it seems I have taken my disdain for beliefs and belief systems a bit to far in other matters... and if someone believes in something, it would behoove me to not make assumptions regarding the nature of the belief. Of course, being able to explore the basis for a belief is ideal, but when this is not possible, it might be best to say "I don't know", and leave it at that.

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Re-reading some of the stuff that has been said, I really like this in particular. Good one Rahz!

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zen buddy said:

Able and willing are two different things.

It seems I have upset you somehow. Your last two posts have demonstrated your unwillingness to hear my point or show me respect. I do not feel like continuing a conversation that is likely to be very annoying.

If you won't show me respect 

If you chill out and show me some respect 

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Neuron said:

I do not believe that humans are born as intelligent beings. I believe some have the capacity to become intelligent beings and some do not. In the case of America, it seems like most do not. Alcohol, theaters, and our daily drama keep us from maximizing our intelligence and capping our potential--therefore most do not even seem to try.

To say that humans are supreme is a very ignorant comment. It is highly dependent on the person, and then again, even the most intelligent person is still ignorant to something...then the question lies, is he/she humble to acknowledge that ignorance?

There are just too many layers, but we do indeed have the capacity to be intelligent beings, which I do not think we are utilizing.

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Good post. 

I did not say humans are supreme, just that we are at the top of the food chain.  We no longer have to kill each other to survive, so we have the chance to be something "more" than an animal, meaning that we don't have to live according to the dictates of our minds/egos anymore.  To utilize our capacity to be intelligent beings, we have to seek and learn the truth, and use it to reprogram our conscious and instinctual minds.  We really have no choice, because for the first time in history, we can and will destroy ourselves if we do not get our minds under control.  Our emotions are running wild, and the cozy world of the ego blinds us to the dangers ahead.  We are driving down a dangerous mountain road, blindfolded.

Sounds a bit dismal, but it is the situation we have created.  We can commit mass suicide by pressing a few buttons, and even if we don't blow ourselves up, we will deplete the earth's resources.  When that happens, the beast will come out worse than ever if we don't get our minds under control.  The beast within will sell it's soul to eat, so to speak.

The good news is that humans have the capacity to be intelligent beings, to transform into spiritual beings, and we can and will get control of our minds if we begin to see the truth.  It is being revealed at www.truthcontest.com.

Jethro Tull said:

Rahz said:

Is it corporations that are the problem? Or karma? Or a snake?

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The problem is the deceiving mind, the beast within.  It is the only thing that blocks out the life coming from us in the present.  It is time to learn the truth and overcome the beast within.  We can know it consciously now, and The Present (link in the original post) reveals the unseen truth for the first time in a way that we can check it for ourselves and consciously know it.  The apocalypse (unveiling) is happening now.  The truth is being revealed, and when if and only if we learn the truth, we can begin to know the life.  It is the next step in our evolution, and it is what all of our "intelligence" is for.  Evolving into spiritual beings is the ultimate goal of mankind, of the entire evolution of life.

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Jethro Tull said:

Do intelligent beings demand respect?

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Do intelligent beings ask stupid questions?

Are we to assume that you'd like to be disrespected?

I was not demanding respect, I was flipping the bird to anyone who does not give me respect.

Do you think it makes for a healthy debate when people start disrespecting other people because their beliefs are different?

With everything that I've said in this thread, you single out this post and insult my intelligence.

If you have a problem with something that I have said you could show me the same respect that I have shown you while you take the time to express yourself and elaborate a little.

As if the desire for respectful communication was a new thing or something. seems to me that something else I said might have annoyed you or something, if that is the case, by all means speak up.

Jethro Tull said:

  It is being revealed at www.truthcontest.com.

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Actually it is being revealed inside of you, me and everyone right now in this moment and every moment to come, it's just that only a few people are listening and so many people don't know how to listen or don't trust themselves, probably has something to do with people suggesting that the truth is inside of a book or found on some Internet webpage.

Obviously I am fond of using the Internet as a way to exchange ideas and understandings of the truth but I put more value in conversation than I do in reading a book or article on the so-called truth.

I would be happy to see you interact more with people who post on this forum rather than your advertising for the truth contest website or posts that continuously say the same thing only repeating word for word points you or somebody else has already made on the truth contest website.

sincerely

zen buddy said:

Jethro Tull said:

Do intelligent beings demand respect?

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Do intelligent beings ask stupid questions?

Are we to assume that you'd like to be disrespected?

I was not demanding respect, I was flipping the bird to anyone who does not give me respect.

Do you think it makes for a healthy debate when people start disrespecting other people because their beliefs are different?

With everything that I've said in this thread, you single out this post and insult my intelligence.

If you have a problem with something that I have said you could show me the same respect that I have shown you while you take the time to express yourself and elaborate a little.

As if the desire for respectful communication was a new thing or something. seems to me that something else I said might have annoyed you or something, if that is the case, by all means speak up.

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