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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Do you agree with Eckharte Tolle's assertion that one need not understand their mind? [Re: Fraggin]
    #10379468 -

Fraggin said:
Poid said:
deCypher said:
Kickle said:
I think we understand pretty well how the mind is capable of learning associations, and how to manipulate that.


Useful, granted, but only a modest percentage of the mind's total capabilities.


So the mind is indefatigably capable of many things, yet incapable of fully truly understanding itself? Why? :strokebeard2:


The automobile is capable of many things (some even park theirself), yet incapable of understanding itself? Why? :strokebeard2:

Maybe because something detached and dissociated is in the driver's seat.

too cheesey?


I agree with the notion of this.

We will never trully understand free will and so we will never trully understand ourselves.

Since we can never trully understand ourselves, one might take eckharte's assertion that one need not understand their mind.

But I think understanding the mind is just another way of understanding the universe.. it is all empowering and allows us to better inform our 'free will' (whether that be real or illusion or whatever).

Also, it is something that has only become possible in more recent years with understanding of the brain and how drug experiences arise from chemical reactions. So I think understanding your mind, which is in absoluteness an unatainable goal, is unnecessary, just like the fact that understanding any other specific facet of the universe is not inherently necessary to understand.

You can do whatever the hell you want with your life. You dont necesasrily have to understand anything properly.

It just helps a lot!

If anythin could be said to be (or ought to be) necessary it is stuff that must not be understood perse but implicitly recognised. for example the notion that other people are conscious beings like you.


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Re: Do you agree with Eckharte Tolle's assertion that one need not understand their mind? [Re: Fraggin]
    #10379579 -

there is always something wrong with you... always that is the point of your mind... to find fault...and to work with it to get better... always

agree with the nigga

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Re: Do you agree with Eckharte Tolle's assertion that one need not understand their mind? [Re: Epigallo]
    #10379861 -

OP, can you please quote the original Q&A so that we can really assess what he's saying, or is this exactly what Eckhart said?


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lilly


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Re: Do you agree with Eckharte Tolle's assertion that one need not understand their mind? [Re: KetamineKatalyst]
    #10380887 -

Good idea. I didn't originally because I listened to the audiobook but here it is:

Q: I feel that there is still a great deal I need to learn about the workings of my mind
before I can get anywhere near full consciousness or spiritual enlightenment.

A: No, you don't. The problems of the mind cannot be solved on the level of the mind.
Once you have understood the basic dysfunction, there isn't really much else that you
need to learn or understand. Studying the complexities of the mind may make you a
good psychologist, but doing so wont take you beyond the mind, just as the study of
madness isn't enough to create sanity. You have already understood the basic
mechanics of the unconscious state: identification with the mind, which creates a
false self, the ego, as a substitute for your true self rooted in Being. You become as a
"branch cut off from the vine," as Jesus puts it.

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Re: Do you agree with Eckharte Tolle's assertion that one need not understand their mind? [Re: Epigallo]
    #10411674 -

Quote:
bradley said:Just as the study of
madness isn't enough to create sanity.


Is that so? I don't see why this wouldn't work?

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Re: Do you agree with Eckharte Tolle's assertion that one need not understand their mind? [Re: Epigallo]
    #10937263 -

bump

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Re: Do you agree with Eckharte Tolle's assertion that one need not understand their mind? [Re: Epigallo]
    #10939865 -

it is not important that all minds understand all things
people do not have the same capacities nor references,

this is ok


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Do you agree with Eckharte Tolle's assertion that one need not understand their mind? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #10939977 -

I agree, best just to try to take the most skillfull actions with the resources you have to hand IMO.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Re: Do you agree with Eckharte Tolle's assertion that one need not understand their mind? [Re: Grapefruit]
    #10940226 -

Understand who & what you are & the rest falls into place...

Real fruits come spontaiously, the deliberation & effort, is just that

De-liberation


:peace:


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Re: Do you agree with Eckharte Tolle's assertion that one need not understand their mind? [Re: Epigallo]
    #10940550 -

Tolle's task is to relieve mental suffering and quiet down mind-noise.  To do this you do not need to probe far into understanding the mind.  You can simply pick up useful models like the witness and the pain-body which are sufficient for Tolle's plan.

How far one wants / needs to understand the mind depends on what you want to get out of it.  Are you looking to relieve suffering, understand the brain, or understand something more metaphysical?

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Re: Do you agree with Eckharte Tolle's assertion that one need not understand their mind? [Re: Epigallo]
    #10942308 -

Tolle must have studied Buddhist psychology. His "Being" seems like the Rigpa of Vajrayana Buddhism. I must concur with his discipline. Transcendence does not require understanding. Understanding is based upon conceptual models, transcendence, well, transcends concepts and hence understanding. I still like to taste sugar, but eventually, whether I like it or not, I will simply BE sugar. There will be no more dualism and no more tasting.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Do you agree with Eckharte Tolle's assertion that one need not understand their mind? [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #10942366 -

I can't say exactly. I've been sitting here for like a half hour, too confused to write exactly what I am trying to dig out of my mind. I guess the short answer is relieve suffering / increase joy.

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Re: Do you agree with Eckharte Tolle's assertion that one need not understand their mind? [Re: Epigallo]
    #10944866 -

what is good for you is always right, but what is right is not always good for you

use self help books, get over them, hate them


BURN!


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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Re: Do you agree with Eckharte Tolle's assertion that one need not understand their mind? [Re: Cherk]
    #10947907 -

seems obvious that gathering ideas only leads to more delusion (attachment to ideas), not awakening (detachment from ideas)

bradley said:
Good idea. I didn't originally because I listened to the audiobook but here it is:

Q: I feel that there is still a great deal I need to learn about the workings of my mind
before I can get anywhere near full consciousness or spiritual enlightenment.

A: No, you don't. The problems of the mind cannot be solved on the level of the mind.
Once you have understood the basic dysfunction, there isn't really much else that you
need to learn or understand. Studying the complexities of the mind may make you a
good psychologist, but doing so wont take you beyond the mind, just as the study of
madness isn't enough to create sanity. You have already understood the basic
mechanics of the unconscious state: identification with the mind, which creates a
false self, the ego, as a substitute for your true self rooted in Being. You become as a
"branch cut off from the vine," as Jesus puts it.


this "great deal" means nothing more to me than a great deal of ideas

Edited by deranger (08/27/09 12:06 PM)

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Re: Do you agree with Eckharte Tolle's assertion that one need not understand their mind? [Re: deranger]
    #10948078 -


Bamboo shadows sweep the stairs
but no dust is stirred;
moonlight reaches to the bottom of the pond
but no trace is left in the water.

- Zenrinkushu

There is no standing under mind.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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