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Re: morel cult thread [Re: reddisert]
    #10592093 -

well right now i am working with cottonwood seedlings in a controlled environment to try to trigger fruiting. what are the temp capabilities of your fc?


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #10653183 -

has everybody given up on this thread? what about you ah?


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #10653491 -

Havent posted on the thread for a while, but my sclerotia i started like 5 months ago are still in the jars.  I've got some fatties that are starting to turn brown, but I'm not sure if i should chill them now or wait til they turn totally brown.


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: faffle]
    #10694858 -

got any pics? i am trying a different method and it is producing some nice sclerotia pics soon to come.


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #10700465 -

MH.. know your interest in nitrogen fixing bacteria.. stumbled across this when doing research on truffles.. watch the video http://www.fertilizernewzealand.co.nz/

Rizobia.. check it out


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Koopa OutOfThisWorld,SmilingDownOnOurs: BirsdEyeView,NeverNewLife,PastsFastAsCars

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #10700669 -

Also check out cation exchange capacity (CEC) and possible influences of positively charged ions

Both are very important in both the leaching and storing of nutrients within a substrate.. especially when water is added to the substrate.. especially when it contains manure or decayed organic matter :smile:

General info:
www.soil.ncsu.edu/programs/nmp/Nutrient%2520Management%2520for%2520CCA.pdf+fish+oil+soil+%22cation+balance%22&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener">http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:fkakiu6VbFIJ:www.soil.ncsu.edu/programs/nmp/Nutrient%2520Management%2520for%2520CCA.pdf+fish+oil+soil+%22cation+balance%22&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

http://www.home-garden-soil-improvement.com/soil-balance.html

 


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Koopa OutOfThisWorld,SmilingDownOnOurs: BirsdEyeView,NeverNewLife,PastsFastAsCars

Edited by koopa_troopa (07/18/09 07:57 PM)

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #10700764 -

that first link is just one link.. just copy and paste the whole thing.. check it:
Soil nitrogen is the most difficult nutrient to characterize: it occurs in organic and
inorganic forms, in solution and as a gas, and as cation and an anion. Plant roots absorb
only the inorganic forms. Common forms of N contained in fertilizers and fresh manures
include ammonia, urea, ammonium and nitrate. Ammonia (NH
3), a gas, reacts rapidly with soil water to form the positively charged ammonium (NH4+) cation. Urea -CO(NH2)2- is rapidly converted from the solid or liquid form by the urease enzyme to
the ammonia form. When urea or fresh manure is applied to the soil surface, N loss as
gaseous ammonia is possible, especially with warm, dry conditions and a soil high pH. If
incorporated or watered into the soil, urea is changed in rapid succession ammonia and on
to ammonium. The positive charged ammonium ion is held by the negative charges of the
soil. This prevents ammonium leaching except in low CEC soils.Potassium, calcium, magnesium, manganese, zinc, iron and copper also occur as cations.
Potassium and ammonium both have a single positive charge, while the remaining cations
have two or more positive charges. In general, the higher the charge of a cation, the more
strongly it is attracted to the negative charge sites of the soil. When the sum of the
positively charged nutrients exceeds the soil's capacity to hold nutrients, K+ and NH4+ will leach before nutrients such as Ca++and Mg++. Leaching of K+
occurs primarily in deep sands with low CEC. In addition to their high positive charge, the cationic micronutrients
react in other ways with the soil to form very strong bonds. They are not subject to
leaching under normal conditions.
Microorganisms convert ammonium to the nitrate (NO3-
) anion. The negatively charged nitrate is repelled by the negative charges of the soil and is readily leached when water passes through the soil



Also, the nitrogen fixing bacteria I mentioned in my previous post strongly incourages the growth of several CLOVERS, as seen above the video in the link I provided in my earlier post.

Maybe there is a link between the nitrogen flushing bacteria and the ability to flush nitrogen and other elements & nutrients completely from the substrate dependeng on their ionic charge.. which could help trigger the production of fruit bodies.

I stumbled across all of this material about CEC, cations and such when reading up on Ted Mikhail, who invented this soil system which is specifically used by a very prolific truffle farm in Australia.. which claims this system has dramatically triggered truffle production...

Interesting to say the least


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Koopa OutOfThisWorld,SmilingDownOnOurs: BirsdEyeView,NeverNewLife,PastsFastAsCars

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #10701208 -

very interesting... one of the patents uses a high volumes of water to trigger fruitings. do you think  they use a soil high in N to get good sclerotia and what not then flush it out to get fruits?


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: reddisert]
    #10702314 -

sorta the jist but not quite..Im still working out some kinks on a hypothesis.. should have something sensible tomorrow..

where o where has Dr AcidHorse gone?? lol... would love to hear your thoughts bro


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Koopa OutOfThisWorld,SmilingDownOnOurs: BirsdEyeView,NeverNewLife,PastsFastAsCars

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #10709072 -

Watch out for pasteurized substrate it is a risk. I found out. Use it as the last stage when fruiting morels. Your jars for sclerotia should have a very  very low moisture level the drying like the summer stimulates aggressive growth. And I figure that cool temps in 50s trigger a coalesing of the hyphae. So loser out there named Matt is posting flames against me and so is GTFO. Nail them for me. I lost inet connection due to the economy so I will try to keep you posted on progress.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #10710843 -

good to hear from you ah! so you say don't pasturie untill last step, in the fruiting substrate? where else would you? you saying not to in the jars? elaborate thanks.
MH


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #10774637 -

low moisture levels, simulate summertime then after full colonization cooler temps.

sterilize your substrates spores don't germinate on pasterized substrate.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (07/31/09 03:00 PM)

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #10780784 -

how you been ah?


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #10832783 -

I have aggressive growth in jars that were sterilized and had low moisture levels. The jars appeared bone dry and the only way to get the moisture to the spores was to increase the heat and generate humidity with that little tiny bit of moisture that was absorbed into the substrate.

Black morel grows aggressively more than the yellow. And black forms a dense white mycelia and those false rhizomorphs much like my pyrex bowl experiment. Those rhizomorphs form when the moisture levels are low and humidity is the only hydration.
There is golden sclerotia formed and I believe there will be large white masses after the temps have been lowered down into the 50s.
Just like in the fall. But it is necessary to have a somewhat constant soft white light source to simulate the Fall. 12 hr on 12 hr off.
In the Fall the sunlight is increased due to the trees losing their leaves. Which a lot of people over looked. And the leaves of those trees are bright yellow and allow for light to shine through. Look into it.

I've been finding Cantharellus lateritius lately in large numbers. Very tasty.

Chanterelles may have a similar situation like the morels.

Got Peach-orange ones, yellow ones, and red ones. Gettin the spores!


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #10896927 -

Another thing I want to point out is that I used rabbit kibbles that are supplemented with "WHEAT GERM". Plus the jar was halfway filled with that layer configuration. All moisture was restrained to the lower nutrient layer and the top layers were completely dry, before being cooked PC'd.

It took a long time at first. The temperatures were too cool in the house, down in the 50s so no moisture ever really made it to the top layer and no humidity ever was generated. The spores did however germinate eventually but growth was slow and not aggressive, the hyphae were loosely branched. But when spring came along with warmer temperatures there was a new dense white growth on the nutrient layer that grew and grew until eventually it engulfed the top and bottom layers. And I had specifically limited how much moisture was in the jar so
it created an environment much like the summer. Things got dry but humid.

To simulate this all that would be required is a heating pad underneath the jar to drive the moisture upward in the form of humidity.

Wheat germ contains vitamins and protein and most likely this protein is peptone.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #10907963 -

i got very large sclerotia growing right now m.esculenta i figured out how to make them grow even larger after they get the dark pigment. keeping it secret tho cuz my partner in the deal came up with the process and doesnt feel like letting it out yet. if i get fruitings ill let u know they may be right around the corner if i do it ill write out the whole process.


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Edited by metalhead (08/23/09 08:47 PM)

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #10914135 -

if we are simulating fall in the jars would we also add moisture to the soil layer?


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #11017455 -

hows it goin all?


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #11027676 -

i was working on an experiment with some leftover grass seed that i grew sclerotia in, and threw some soil into a tupperware container with holes on the bottom. After that i mixed the seed in wiyh it and planted grass seed in it and just replicated spring than summer and now fall by cooling off and killing the grass and lowering the light and the sclerotia responded by basically exploding they are really taking off. also in spring and fall i watered once a week. just some advice give her a try let me know what happens!


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #11030635 -

metalhead said:
i got very large sclerotia growing right now m.esculenta i figured out how to make them grow even larger after they get the dark pigment. keeping it secret tho cuz my partner in the deal came up with the process and doesnt feel like letting it out yet. if i get fruitings ill let u know they may be right around the corner if i do it ill write out the whole process.



Yo Metalhead if you are talking about me,  you can let the secret out.  I do appreciate that you stuck to your word and didn't say any thing yet,  but my research has been delayed by moving.  My wife continues to push the moving day farther and farther out so I don't know when I will be able to pick things up again.
Hope all goes well and next time I check this thread I will see some pictures of Morel fruit bodies.
TC,
CH


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:mypoorbrain:

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms
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