Redstorm said:

Maybe the third time will be a charm.  I would like you to demonstrate that aggressive individuals as a whole cause more harm than good.

---

Redstorm said:

Aggressive individuals (who it must be noted are not inherently violent) provide the drive and ambition for human progress. Apathy and passiveness has not led to the technological and standard of living increases we now enjoy.

---

Zanthius said:

Is violence a good thing for our society? Is it good for children to have aggressive parents that are violent against them?

---

fireworks_god said:

Being aggressive is within the realm of behavior. It is a behavior, and it is not the genetics themselves that produce the behavior, but the mind and its decision-making processes.
Therefore, it doesn't make sense to try to put a nozzle on the behavior at the level of genetics.

---

fireworks_god said:

Presuming to know without having carefully considered intricate details of each person's lives would be a complete injustice to those who have produced more good than harm throughout the course of their life.

---

Zanthius said:

Of course each person has both good and bad qualities, but I don't consider the aggressive aspect of individuals to be a good quality. I consider it to be a primitive, and a deteriorating quality for our society as a whole. Each individuals is better off without his or her aggressive aspect. ( especially is they are going to raise children )

---

Zanthius said:

People are genetically predisposed for much of their behavior. There has been done a lot of studies on genetically identical twins growing up in different environments, and they usually share much of their behavior.

---

MushroomTrip said:

Apparently he's including pedophiles in there, even though he wasn't able to establish any link between these two.

---

fireworks_god said:

The problem is still one of behavior. Its behavior that needs modified, not genetics, and modifying the behavior by interdicting genetic propagation definitely doesn't seem to be the most effective or practical way to help change behavior.

---

Quote:

Nope. I just used sexual abuse of children as another example of what is bad for children. Both violence against children, and sexual abuse of children is bad for children. I think there is a link between aggressiveness and violence against children.

---

MushroomTrip said:

What link is there between pedophilia and aggressiveness?

---

MushroomTrip said:

Tell me exactly, how did you establish that pedophiles are aggressive persons?

---

Zanthius said:

Well, remember that I was against aggressive individuals being parents, mostly because I think children have a right to have non-aggressive parents. Aggressive parents give an aggressive environment to their children, not just genes for predisposed aggressiveness.

---

You realize, though, that with this line of thought, it is being said that the right for a child to have non-aggressive parents supersedes the right for them to exist at all?

I'm more than sure that there have been a great number of children with aggressive (and passive-aggressive ) parents that have turned out to become mature and happy individuals, perhaps even becoming stronger from having to come to terms with the effects of being in an aggressive environment. Now, I only see suffering as being good only for learning how to stop its infliction, and that's basically my point: the problem really is behavioral and it isn't being propagated by genetics, but by memes, by having the same patterns be exhibited again and again through conditioning, and now that we are at a time when humans are really beginning to be consciously cognitive and to utilize their neo-cortex, it is a matter of gaining the understanding that is necessary from aggressive behavior in order to resole aggressive behavior.

I don't really see it as being too necessary to interdict aggressiveness in this way because I see it being that the way civilization and human evolution seems (to me) to be heading is self-selecting more civil, rational behavior from people on its own.

fireworks_god said:

You realize, though, that with this line of thought, it is being said that the right for a child to have non-aggressive parents supersedes the right for them to exist at all?

---

OrgoneConclusion said:

Most of the guys caught on film in 'To Catch a Predator' (hidden camera reality show about adult males attempting to get sexual with underage women) are total wimps. Perhaps if they were real men they would date real women...

---

Quote:

I never claimed that pedophiles are aggressive, except for perhaps in your delusional interpretation of the world.

---

Listen pansy, you said there is a link between aggression and pedophilia, yet, when asked for the link, you say that you never claimed that pedophiles are aggressive. This is a very stupid game.
Maybe this time you will decide to actually answer the following question: what link is there between pedophilia and aggression, other than "kids suffer because of both"?

MushroomTrip said:

Listen pansy, you said there is a link between aggression and pedophilia, yet, when asked for the link, you say that you never claimed that pedophiles are aggressive.

---

What the fuck are you talking about? I NEVER said that there is a link between aggression and pedophilia, except for perhaps in your DELUSIONAL interpretation of the world. How many times do you want me to repeat this for you?