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Icelander
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Testosterone and religion
#5722259 - 06/07/06 09:24 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Veritas and I were walking and talking this morning and I made a comment about testosterone in relation to a raw food diet. I made the comment that a raw food diet lowers testosterone and aggression and that raw fooders that I know have low sex drive and are mellow folk. Then we moved on to mens warlike natures and snarkyness when testosterone is high. I made a comment that she could have me a mellow soul if I lowered my testosterone like when I was on my fast. I said that she would really prefer me snarky as long as I wanted sex with her lots and lots. Her comment was that she often has to put up with my snarkyness and also lack of sex drive because she considers me somewhat sexually repressed which is somewhat true. Not exactly win/win for her. So here's the point of this thread. I made a connection in my mind to why our culture is so fucking warlike along with many other cultures. Testosterone increases sex drive and aggressiveness. If you repress the sex drive, where does that energy go? Aggressiveness/warlike
Why sexual repression? Mostly religion.
OK, I then said to Veritas; what if the religious powers of the early days knew this and created sexual repression for the purpose of increasing aggressiveness for things like the Holy Crusades and other power hungry ventures. A simple plan to take over the world. Veritas supported the idea with reference to the Chivalry and Courtly Love (not to be confused with Cortney Love )aspect of keeping Knights in a state of aggressiveness, and blah blah blah.
What you think?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
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Re: Testosterone and religion [Re: Icelander]
#5722325 - 06/07/06 10:04 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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England is unique among western empires in the last millenium since they merged king and pope: Publicly, he had to be more chivalrous and the same goes for the court that surrounded him; also since there was no significant diversion (i.e. god acts through us) they needed to behave like the vatican to some extent - slowly this has been restored as a split monarchy/twoheaded dragon.
Normally in the west we use good cop bad cop regimes between church and state, state and press, enron and martha stewart etc., simplifying the whole divert and grab wealth management approach, and keeping the poor stupid and poor.
Among these greedy vikings any good girls that crop up belong to the toughest leader and will be consumed like a tax, any weaklings can be clowns or cobblers.
Even though arthur was christ-like magical & merlinized, probably behind closed doors the whole court was more like vikings or a hells angels gang (and still probably is).
In the East many kings were holy holy heads of church and state too, I think there was even more violence and racial cleansing in the Far East as they tried to perfect their ideas about human beauty and please themselves sexually by being surrounded by the adorables - even to the point of kill every ugly kid before it even breeds: I kinda suspect this due to more superficial homogeneity in genetic expression accross wider geographical spaces in the east, compared to higher variances inthe west.
Anyway, it gets good when people can have education, choose thier own food, choose their own partners, and then it gets even better when they love to learn more than to drive motorcycles and get drunk.
as for nutrition and sex drive...well the whole story is about that party, problem is who has to clean up and how do you arrange being invited back.
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Silversoul
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Re: Testosterone and religion [Re: Icelander]
#5722340 - 06/07/06 10:13 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well, I remember I heard about one war in ancient Greece that ended abruptly when the soldiers' wives refused to sleep with them until they stopped fighting.
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Silversoul
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Re: Testosterone and religion [Re: Icelander]
#5722347 - 06/07/06 10:15 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have to wonder, though, if sexual repression is what causes the aggressiveness, then how come it's not the priests and monks who are out fighting?
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Icelander
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Re: Testosterone and religion [Re: Silversoul]
#5722358 - 06/07/06 10:19 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said: I have to wonder, though, if sexual repression is what causes the aggressiveness, then how come it's not the priests and monks who are out fighting?
I did not say that sexual repression causes agressiveness. Testosterone increases both for the purpose of procreation. If you take one away the other becomes intensified it seems.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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capliberty
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Re: Testosterone and religion [Re: Icelander]
#5722462 - 06/07/06 11:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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which one has a direct cause to the other
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Icelander
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Re: Testosterone and religion [Re: capliberty]
#5722486 - 06/07/06 11:13 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sexual repression increases agressiveness. Ask a woman who isn't giving it to her man.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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capliberty
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Re: Testosterone and religion [Re: Icelander]
#5722513 - 06/07/06 11:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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you said it, not me
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redgreenvines
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Re: Testosterone and religion [Re: capliberty]
#5722550 - 06/07/06 11:37 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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there is always the danger of it backfiring and the male will go kukucok http://www.unwords.com/unword/kukucok.html
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: Testosterone and religion [Re: Icelander]
#5722812 - 06/07/06 01:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Make Love, Not War"?
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leery11
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what about sexual repression through lack of testosterone?
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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Icelander
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: "Make Love, Not War"?
Our war cry shall be "Look to the Bonobos"
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Testosterone and religion [Re: leery11]
#5722960 - 06/07/06 02:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's not exactly repression.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Veritas

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Re: Testosterone and religion [Re: Silversoul]
#5723018 - 06/07/06 02:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said: Well, I remember I heard about one war in ancient Greece that ended abruptly when the soldiers' wives refused to sleep with them until they stopped fighting.
The Greeks aren't a great example of sexually-repressed warriors, though.
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Xanthas
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Re: Testosterone and religion [Re: Silversoul]
#5723388 - 06/07/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said: Well, I remember I heard about one war in ancient Greece that ended abruptly when the soldiers' wives refused to sleep with them until they stopped fighting.
That was a play. An ancient satire. I wish, though, I could remember who wrote it.
I do believe that the concept of this thread is right on, but not for the reasons stated.
http://almapintada.puellula.com/index.html http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/GESUND/ARCHIV/GUS/GUS_MAIN_INDEX.HTM
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: Testosterone and religion [Re: Xanthas]
#5724296 - 06/07/06 08:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Where were you during that arguement about pedophilia!?
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raytrace
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Re: Testosterone and religion [Re: Xanthas]
#5725484 - 06/08/06 01:14 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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That was a play. An ancient satire. I wish, though, I could remember who wrote it.
Aristophanes' comedy Lysistrata about the war between Athens and Sparta (Pelopponesian war)
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Xanthas
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: Where were you during that arguement about pedophilia!?
I didn't like the flavor of the thread. It was like a whack-a-mole game. Angry rants come up, beat down with a spongy, joking mallet.
Quote:
raytrace said: That was a play. An ancient satire. I wish, though, I could remember who wrote it.
Aristophanes' comedy Lysistrata about the war between Athens and Sparta (Pelopponesian war)
Thank you much for that.
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: Testosterone and religion [Re: Icelander]
#5726324 - 06/08/06 11:08 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sexual repression seems more like a form of asceticism to me than a method of control. And, being sexually repressed doesn't seem to necessarily cause aggressive behavior. Plenty of celibate Buddhists live entirely peaceful lives, while in contrast, Romans, possibly the most over-sexed culture which has ever existed, was also one of the most violent.
I think sexual repression has more to do with the guilt-laden Christian concept of the fall from grace, so now "everyone is a sinner." Natural desires can be considered "worldly", according to Christian thought, and thus are sinful.
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Icelander
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Good points to consider.
Maybe the vegetarian diets of most holy folk help keep the testosterone levels down. Also meditation may have some effect.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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