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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #10145480 -

where did you come across this tek?


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #10145511 -

what tek?


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #10145568 -

well mabee it's not a tek but the salt deal


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Edited by metalhead (04/10/09 10:40 PM)

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #10145626 -

Its just something I thought of.

Plus I've noticed really huge morels growing near roadsides.

Probably due to the salt trucks in the wintertime.

Its something I need to look into.

Yet they usually use calcium chloride for that situation.

But I wonder if sodium chloride would produce a similar result.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #10146830 -

i always thought it was because it was in the open where they get alot of water and spray from cars plus the disturbance from plows?


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #10164406 -

hows it goin with that morel?


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #10173605 -

metalhead said:
hows it goin with that morel?


Well its for sure: morels are hydrophobic.

Their cells get waterlogged which is due to osmotic pressure imbalance or something like that, i.e. water going to a less dense location.

They do however need a certain amount of water, something hygroscopic. They need it very cool, so temps in the upper 30s or 40s for at most 6 hours is needed everyday for blacks.

They are most often found growing on hillsides that are away from direct sunlight. Which helps prolong the moisture and fight drying out.

They are most often found growing on hillsides that are shielded from direct wind. (BUT, its not an ideal location and could be the main reason why they are small in these locations.), Which helps prolong the moisture and fight drying out.

They prefer higher air flow and the reason they are found on the sides that are facing away
from the average wind direction, or direction the wind is coming from, is because of the contour of the hills and slopes.
The higher elevations or peaks of the slopes block the incoming warmer wind and prevent spores from being blown further out.
Once spores fall to the lower elevations they are trapped.
However this isn't the case with cooler or colder airflows that travel along the surface of the ground, so this may explain their continued
movement over many years.

Its a kind of airfoil that occurs that is much like a wave coming in shore to hit the beach or more notably the pipeline.
The same thing that happens to surfers happens to morel spores to a certain degree of similarity.

The pattern or shape of the population will be like a collar around the slope/hill or a straight line along the wind path.

Their populations and spore paths coincide with the average jet stream pattern that occurs whenever they're sporulating the most the previous year.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (04/15/09 08:41 PM)

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #10176607 -

Holy crap! I was searching out there and found a big blonde morel!

http://www.pointloma.edu/Athletics/Volleyball/Roster/Kylie_Morel.htm


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #10177036 -

Hey check out my tools for predicting morel fruitings.



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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #10177330 -

well i extracted sclerotia last night they were nothing like i expected they were really hard i expected them to be spongey! but they were about the size of a silver dollar about 3-4 in long circular and like 2 in thick i mooved them into trays and thouroughly saturated the substrate i'm trying the soil used to form them as a fruiting substrate. i'll take pics when i get my camera back.


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #10182604 -

Have you thought about maybe planting grass in the soil?

I've always thought that since they fruit in the spring it may be due to the plants coming back to life. Maybe something similar to ethylene production occurs and triggers pinning?

Just a thought.

AcidHorse said:
Yet they usually use calcium chloride for that situation.

But I wonder if sodium chloride would produce a similar result.


Calcium chloride is easily obtained.

The major component of wood ash is calcium carbonate aka lime.

Has anyone tried to induce fruiting by flooding the substrate with a calcium carbonate/chloride mixture? Then maybe flush it out a few days later with a clean water flush.





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Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.

Looking for wild Panaeolus species prints. Msg me for trades.

Edited by BlimeyGrimey (04/17/09 02:37 AM)

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #10191638 -

BlimeyGrimey said:
Have you thought about maybe planting grass in the soil?



Will that make the mushroom stay fresh and continue to develop after picking it?

Have I thought about using plants? Haven't you read any of my posts before?

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, stay up to date.

Quote:
I've always thought that since they fruit in the spring it may be due to the plants coming back to life. Maybe something similar to ethylene production occurs and triggers pinning?



Maybe something like microbial lifeforms are beginning to decomp the organic matter.

Quote:
Calcium chloride is easily obtained.
The major component of wood ash is calcium carbonate aka lime.



Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Quote:
Has anyone tried to induce fruiting by flooding the substrate with a calcium carbonate/chloride mixture? Then maybe flush it out a few days later with a clean water flush.



Might be worth a try. But really all that is doing is adjusting pH levels.

==================================================================================================

Ok enough is enough. I found that morels do not respond well with direct exposure to water. Morels DO NOT GET FLUSHED.
Tree leaves carpet the ground in the woods and it is difficult for rainwater to make it down to the ground underneath those leaves.
The leaves will absorb some of that moisture and hold on to it. Some water makes it to the ground but in areas that have little leaf cover,
morels will grow outside and around these areas. If a morel gets direct exposure to high amounts of water the stem will darken brownish orange, appear a little translucent, and will be soft and spongy. So you wonder how the morel gets the water it needs? Absorbtion.
Not its own absorbtion of water but the soil's absorbtion which spreads out once it gets saturated. And warmer temps will humidify the
air under the leaves. So morels could effectively be triggered with a water vapor.

Temperatures during a triggering period, are sinusoidal and have lows and highs that are like 35°F - 80°F all in one day for a number of days.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #10196283 -

Hi AcidHorse,
Do you have any info on how baterial resistant morels are? I know the myc grows very fast, but after full colonization, how does the morel myc deal with bacteria? I have a few petri dishes incubating- morel wedge on one side, bacterial smear on the other. I just want to know if the morel can coexist with the bacteria, or does the bacteria take over the mycelium (or vice versa)? On a side note, how did that styrofoam work as a nutrient poor substrate?

Edited by Roger Fudd (04/19/09 04:08 PM)

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #10196737 -

AcidHorse said:
Have I thought about using plants? Haven't you read any of my posts before?

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, stay up to date.




Nope, haven't actually read your posts before. I'm not too big on morels. I will be reading through the thread and your posts eventually since I plan on trying some projects with Verpa species. So far I haven't seen anyone make any BIG progress with morels on this site. Other than large sclerotia production.

It might be the calcium that does something for the morels. Since you've noticed they grow by places that have had calcium chloride spread for ice. The fact that burned areas also have high areas of calcium carbonate could be a hint.

You should get a soil test kit and start testing the soil at places that have morel growth and then testing areas that are devoid of morels and see the differences.

I plan on doing the same thing when I go back to Puerto Rico to attempt to see what kind of substrate my Ps. guilartensis culture needs to fruit.


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Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.

Looking for wild Panaeolus species prints. Msg me for trades.

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: Roger Fudd]
    #10197470 -

Roger Fudd said:
Hi AcidHorse,
Do you have any info on how baterial resistant morels are? I know the myc grows very fast, but after full colonization, how does the morel myc deal with bacteria? I have a few petri dishes incubating- morel wedge on one side, bacterial smear on the other. I just want to know if the morel can coexist with the bacteria, or does the bacteria take over the mycelium (or vice versa)? On a side note, how did that styrofoam work as a nutrient poor substrate?


Yes they can coexist with bacteria but it has to be a particular type of bacteria. Some bacteria inhibit the growth of morel hyphae but
I'm not sure which ones. Others will increase the growth of the hyphae and stimulate development of sclerotia.
Read "Maitake and Morels" its out there in PDF form, done by an Australian team.

Styrofoam, well I wouldn't use a totally styrofoam substrate. You need some organic matter with good microbial lifeforms.
But it would be an OK thing to use because it could be used as a "cut" to cut the organic matter with.
It being a lightweight material would also help to preserve airspaces. If making a layer of it for a mason jar, I would mix
a cup of groundup styrofoam with a cup of organic matter/mulch. I think they do this with some potting soils.

I found out this weekend, the woods I hunt in are beech+ash but more ash than beech.

I wonder why those black morels love ash trees so much? A bacteria associated with them? Higher sugar content in the leaves?
Or maybe its the Emerald Ash Borer working a similar pattern like Dutch Elm's Disease.
Maybe these trees are in a weakened state and morels are able to take advantage of this, just like they do with young trees.

I think I'm going to do some experiments with ash seedlings this year too. Need to see if anything happens. I wish I had some clear plastic plant pots.

It stands to reason if there is any kind of association with a tree like that, if you were to inoculate a pot with one of those seedling trees and allowed it to do all its growing outside during the summertime and fall. Then after a little while in winter you could bring it indoors and do a 12 hour 65°F warmup / 12 hour 35°F cooldown pattern everyday for a week and remembering to hydrate with a warm water once a week and supplying an airflow, its highly possible to produce a few morels. But the only problem you would have to watch out for is "damping off". And I believe morels are capable of causing damping off. I've seen them kill seedling plants before.
Actually if you have a controllable indoor environment, you could allow everything to grow during the summertime, outdoors for just a month, bring it indoors and simulate fall, winter, and spring. But one thing to remember is that you will need to watch moisture levels in the pot during the summertime outdoors. Don't let it go bone dry.

However I'm not sure how a potato plant would react.
It has a lot of starch in its tuber and it may be able to supply a developing sclerotium or even a fruitbody, with excess nutrients.
If you got a potato successfully started with morel, I would maintain it in the frig for a while to delay the plant growth. Otherwise
the plant will use up a lot of those nutrients really fast. But the plant will need light so you will have to take it out everyday from there.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (04/19/09 07:25 PM)

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #10197476 -

BlimeyGrimey said:
AcidHorse said:
Have I thought about using plants? Haven't you read any of my posts before?

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, stay up to date.




Nope, haven't actually read your posts before. I'm not too big on morels. I will be reading through the thread and your posts eventually since I plan on trying some projects with Verpa species. So far I haven't seen anyone make any BIG progress with morels on this site. Other than large sclerotia production.

It might be the calcium that does something for the morels. Since you've noticed they grow by places that have had calcium chloride spread for ice. The fact that burned areas also have high areas of calcium carbonate could be a hint.

You should get a soil test kit and start testing the soil at places that have morel growth and then testing areas that are devoid of morels and see the differences.

I plan on doing the same thing when I go back to Puerto Rico to attempt to see what kind of substrate my Ps. guilartensis culture needs to fruit.


yeah just ignore my rants.

As for testing the soil, it also would be a good idea to test at different times of the year, because things change and cycle every year.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (04/19/09 07:21 PM)

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #10198135 -

Cool acidhorse, thanks for the details. I was thinking about mixing biodegradable packing peanuts that were crumbled up into the sawdust layer. Since it's biodegradable though, I don't know if it is nutritious, so I might just stick w/ regular styrofoam... Oh, and I'm going to use plants too. Does it matter what type? So far I saw clover as my best bet, but I was thinking about elm, or maybe a plant that needs fire for germination, so I could "sterilize" it with flame for a little.

Edited by Roger Fudd (04/19/09 09:18 PM)

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse]
    #10199795 -

Quote:
AcidHorse said:...
I wish I had some clear plastic plant pots.
...

I found some cheap ones in stores, where they sell orchids. Should be available in the US too.

Carsten

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Re: morel cult thread [Re: Mycelio]
    #10208207 -

i found 50 morels yesterday in a logging skid trail(m. conica/elata) and i just pulled the whole morel and they had little redish greenish seedlings growing out of the sclerotia the roots were completely engulfed by the sclerotia! i really wish i had a camera now! i found them in clusters of like 5! i'll try to preserve the sclerotia untill i get a camera.


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead]
    #10208278 -

Try to keep the seedlings alive and plant them. Maybe you can then ID the plant. It would be a great to know what kind of plant it was. Maybe planting them (seeds) with the sclerotia in a grow would hep the mycelium.


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Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.

Looking for wild Panaeolus species prints. Msg me for trades.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms
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