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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: Desos]
    #9653810 -

Thanks for not explaining your post in the least.


--------------------

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: Indigenous]
    #9654022 -

Nothing works unless you believe in it.
Like voodoo.
I believe in karma.
But i think that putting labels on actions can only lead to forming a regulated belief system.. and thats not what spirituality is about in my opinion.
Like if you do this.. then that will happen to you.
I dont think thats how it goes..
Basically the whole logic behind it is "dont do something you are doubting and feel you will regret later on "
Cause if you go against yourself , when you have a bad feeling about it.. karma is imo just a reminder of how you didnt trust your own intuition.
And intuition is doing from the heart , and having faith in something untouchable and unexplainable.
Cause and affect is a completely different thing.
It is simply a law of motion.
If you would concider that you never really left your primary position , the affect of that cause is to realize that there is no real motion actually , therefore the illusion of time that only serves as a naive explanation of change , also ceases to exist.
And change.. is motion.
:smile:
And i can go  on and on ..
We all believe in the same things ..
We just put different labels on them.
Buddhism has some very powerful and honest messages ..
But its still a system ya know..
Valery Uvalov said that there are many teachings on spirituality and consciousness .. but none of them will help you actually see the reality behind the "poetry".
And thats also OK.
But somehow.. all these things sort of imply that unification eliminates all the negative aspects of this mystery we are living and playing out.
If all people on the planet were to cooperate and contribute to the whole in their own way .. karma would then be applied not on an individual basis .. but for the whole complex. And then the whole story strives for a higher level.
The way i would explain karma is that we are this one whole.. even if we are not consciously aware of it.
Therefore doing something that you would interpret as negative towards another self is actually harming yourself in the end , being that you are and comprise  "the One".
All these teachings.. from whatever part of the planet or the galaxy they  may come from , seam to point out the same thing .. only in a different way.
And if you make a theory of your own it will be a modified replica with your personal distortions integrated through the message which in our case would be made of words , that are also ... just a product.
anybody see where im going with this ?
We are dealing with concepts.. made out of concepts..
If you trace them back .. you come to a single source that again used available information to make sense out of nonsense.
The valuable bits and pieces stay with the movement of stories along with the new propositions , thus we always tend to look back for the truth since additions just create unnecessary confusion.
You can try to abandon any possible logic , reasoning or emotion , by claiming it is also a product .. but that would be a product also.
Therefore.. the only assumption i can make without claiming absolute originality .. is that everything really is .. nothing more than a product.
Thus reality is not  absolute.
It is created and modified ..
And the modifiers are infinite.
Because we are the creation.
In the end.. (this time its really the end)..
Its a choice.
Help the plant grow..
Or kill it.
There are no mistakes. But you cant do both.
:crazy2:


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: Indigenous]
    #9654077 -

In an immense incompressible fluid, there's too many variables to follow exactly the cause/effect of everything. But move a part of the fluid and the movement will surely continue somewhere, not necessarily back at you.

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: deimya]
    #9654107 -

Hydrodynamics 101

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: Indigenous]
    #9654129 -

...clumsily applied to karma AND cause/effect. In short it's not obvious, it's not straightforward, but it sure isn't random either, or only inasmuch as our inability to easily grasp a bigger picture.

KARMA@home anyone ?

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: deimya]
    #9654164 -

deimya said:
In an immense incompressible fluid, there's too many variables to follow exactly the cause/effect of everything. But move a part of the fluid and the movement will surely continue somewhere, not necessarily back at you.


The amount of fluid - Infinite
The number of variables - Infinite
It has to come back to you :smile:
If time is understood as an illusion.
Karma is immediate.
The choice of polarization is of most importance.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: deimya]
    #9654210 -

deimya said:
KARMA@home anyone ?

?

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: Indigenous]
    #9654272 -

Embed the world of your everyday actions into tiny packets sent abroad and crunched by idle computers around the world such that two years later you'll get to know how karma actually didn't come back to you the day after two years before ! 'would make a heck of a cool screen-saver with 3D stuff n shit :crazy:

Edited by deimya (01/21/09 08:51 PM)

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: deimya]
    #9654437 -

alright, OC.

what i meant was that we are all good at our core.  the subjective opinions of good and bad are created by themselves.

when we are restricted by the restraints of good or bad it is like chaining up the primal side of ourselves -- the id.  because it is chained up, the id responds with counterhostility pushing the limits of these good and bad restraints.  the superego -- the unconscious rational side -- then justifies these restraints by showing how the id is pushing against them.  however, if there were no restraints to begin with -- no morals -- then the id will not push back and test the boundaries of right and wrong.

in this way, restraints give way to breaking of the restraints.  morality, gives way to immorality.

the id is naturally good, without the restraints of morality.

of course this is a standing that takes much understanding and wisdom, because one could easily run out of control with no boundaries.


--------------------
I am Jack's inflamed sense of rejection.

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: jivJaN]
    #9654532 -

Quote:
Nothing works unless you believe in it.


Not even a bullet to the head?


--------------------

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9654661 -

part of buddhism (the well known part) is almost indistinguishable from hinduism which is not that different from all kinds of primitive religions.
lots of scarey make believe rules and concocted cosmologies and superstitions.

there is a hidden part of buddhism (like kabbala is supposedly the hidden part of judaism) called abhidhamma.

experiences are broken down differently in abhidhamma than other parts of buddhism, and there are few traces (still some) of the hindu superstitions.

Karma, in abhidhamma, has roots in mind moments and has results in mind moments. none of it is related to material world except in so far as mind moments are inseparable with it. all of it is a psychological issue.

Bad Karma results are experiences (specifically mind moments) with pain.
Good Karma results are experiences with pleasure.

Bad Karma roots are experiences with hatred or greed or delusion.
Good Karma roots are experiences with love/compassion or generosity or wisdom/clarity.

the satisfaction of the Karma justice is all internal, and usually fairly quick.

I find this explanation of Karma, not only believable but useful.
no mumbo jumbo


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9654680 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Nothing works unless you believe in it.


Not even a bullet to the head?


Depends which universe you end up in.



--------------------

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: Desos]
    #9654706 -

Quote:
the subjective opinions of good and bad are created by themselves.



As I said before, I don't speak gibberish. I have no idea what you are trying to convey.

Opinions create opinions? :confused:


--------------------

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9654761 -

he's arguing with heathens for the sake of it
as explained more completely
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/9654287/an/0/page/0


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9654983 -

i explained it the paragraph after that, and the link explains it if you care to read it.  i dont really know what else to say.


--------------------
I am Jack's inflamed sense of rejection.

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: Desos]
    #9655654 -

Maybe, I am karma.
Or the right hand of God.
Someone pisses me off - I kick their ass.
"Vengance is mine..."
Maybe, I or my action is the means of the lord's justice or the manifestation of karma.
Of course this can apply in positive ways as well.
I scratch your back, you scratch mine.
Cause or effect - sometimes I'm one, sometimes the other.

Like you said: it all comes back to you.
It's totally immediate - time and action simply is.
But where is the polarization?
What is: is.
What is not: is not.
What is: cannot not be.
And what is not: cannot be.


--------------------
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
- Albert Einstein

Edited by Axiom420 (01/22/09 12:39 AM)

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: Axiom420]
    #9655698 -

what is an what should never be - page/plant

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: jivJaN]
    #9661532 -

jivJaN said:
Nothing works unless you believe in it.
Like voodoo.
I believe in karma.
But i think that putting labels on actions can only lead to forming a regulated belief system.. and thats not what spirituality is about in my opinion.
Like if you do this.. then that will happen to you.
I dont think thats how it goes..
Basically the whole logic behind it is "dont do something you are doubting and feel you will regret later on "
Cause if you go against yourself , when you have a bad feeling about it.. karma is imo just a reminder of how you didnt trust your own intuition.
And intuition is doing from the heart , and having faith in something untouchable and unexplainable.
Cause and affect is a completely different thing.
It is simply a law of motion.
If you would concider that you never really left your primary position , the affect of that cause is to realize that there is no real motion actually , therefore the illusion of time that only serves as a naive explanation of change , also ceases to exist.
And change.. is motion.
:smile:
And i can go  on and on ..
We all believe in the same things ..
We just put different labels on them.
Buddhism has some very powerful and honest messages ..
But its still a system ya know..
Valery Uvalov said that there are many teachings on spirituality and consciousness .. but none of them will help you actually see the reality behind the "poetry".
And thats also OK.
But somehow.. all these things sort of imply that unification eliminates all the negative aspects of this mystery we are living and playing out.
If all people on the planet were to cooperate and contribute to the whole in their own way .. karma would then be applied not on an individual basis .. but for the whole complex. And then the whole story strives for a higher level.
The way i would explain karma is that we are this one whole.. even if we are not consciously aware of it.
Therefore doing something that you would interpret as negative towards another self is actually harming yourself in the end , being that you are and comprise  "the One".
All these teachings.. from whatever part of the planet or the galaxy they  may come from , seam to point out the same thing .. only in a different way.
And if you make a theory of your own it will be a modified replica with your personal distortions integrated through the message which in our case would be made of words , that are also ... just a product.
anybody see where im going with this ?
We are dealing with concepts.. made out of concepts..
If you trace them back .. you come to a single source that again used available information to make sense out of nonsense.
The valuable bits and pieces stay with the movement of stories along with the new propositions , thus we always tend to look back for the truth since additions just create unnecessary confusion.
You can try to abandon any possible logic , reasoning or emotion , by claiming it is also a product .. but that would be a product also.
Therefore.. the only assumption i can make without claiming absolute originality .. is that everything really is .. nothing more than a product.
Thus reality is not  absolute.
It is created and modified ..
And the modifiers are infinite.
Because we are the creation.
In the end.. (this time its really the end)..
Its a choice.
Help the plant grow..
Or kill it.
There are no mistakes. But you cant do both.
:crazy2:


:thumbup:


--------------------
"As we increasingly master our perceptions, beliefs, and thought/feeling patterns, we magnetically attract that which we most desire."
-Luanne Oakes

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: Indigenous]
    #9670631 -

"Do unto others as you would have done to yourself" -- the Golden rule

Now although I did read this somewhere it was not reading it that gave me morals because I also read many things to the contrary and had to decide for myself what was the truth. The argument that universal truth is a made up construct for some unknown reason is ludicrous. The truth was not sold to me as no one turned a profit when I believed in doing good things, although many have benefited from my moral fiber by not having to succumb to a friend who does not understand the difference between right and wrong.

Although my parents are for the most part good people, they have no real understanding of karma. I would say they have a pretty good understanding of the difference between right and wrong when it comes to violence or life and death but when it comes to honesty my parents cannot be trusted.

If our morals are learned then how did I learn of honesty when I was the only one of my family and friends who really understood its importance. Although I'm sure I was subjected to a lot of writing or movie plots teaching the importance of honesty I was also subjected to the exact opposite much like the points many of you are making here in this thread. Who was it that decided which philosophy is true? Well that's obvious, I did! It is impossible for you to say that I was subjected to more of one than the other as the reason for why I believe what I now believe because I was actually subjected to more on the subject that is far different from what I believe now.

Of course there are many arguments to support the idea that there is no difference between right and wrong because there are millions of people out there doing the wrong thing who are very creative with their justifications. We are all ingenious creatures and if we want to justify we can come up with many convincing arguments to suggest that what we are doing is okay or should be accepted, when in fact we are in the wrong and will eventually learn the hard way.

Honesty is the most important thing to remember when trying to live the good life. Those of us who have lived an honest life for some time become very aware that we are definitely on the right track. Honesty can be difficult because the immediate result can be unpleasant or with no reward when lack of honesty would make the moment easier and in some cases can be rewarding. We learn the truth only through the test of time. An honest move will in the long run prove more beneficial because although a dishonest approach provides immediate relief or satisfaction we suffer a great consequence at a later time. Although the honest approach was more difficult in the moment in the long run the benefits outweigh the difficulties.

If you were on the receiving end of whatever you're going to say or do how would you feel? If what you are doing or saying does not have any effect on anyone then there is no right or wrong. If what you are doing or saying has an effect on others or even yourself then there is a right and a wrong that will become obvious in the consequences if you are paying attention. It is actually very easy to foresee the consequences of an action before hand if you take the time to contemplate such things.

Morals are something we learn through our experience not through the teachings. Someone who learns that there is no difference between right and wrong through the teachings of others definitely has a right to believe in such a way but in time they will eventually learn how it was a mistake to believe such things as they experience the universal truth.

If we all live life as if this was our own little science experiment as we pay close attention to the consequences of our actions the world would be a better place. If nothing really matters and there is no point to any of this then we would never exist at all. Collectively, we have a life to create for ourselves, let's make the right choices and create a beautiful future.

Edited by zen buddy (01/24/09 04:32 PM)

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Re: Karma or cause/effect [Re: Indigenous]
    #9680819 -

Indigenous said:
I was listening to a lecture on Buddhism and the teacher gave a small sample of Karma. He said if you lie to get money it is not cause and effect because it is not repeatable. If every time you lied you got money it would be cause and effect. He said it is Karma, you got the money as repayment for a prior good deed and something such as being labeled a liar will be the resulting bad karma for lying.


first i must urge you to meditate on your actions and what occurs because of them. secondly i urge you to attempt to watch yourself expel energy, possiblely with the help of a fungus friend.

many people have a close minded approach to karma, i.e.
steal and something will be stolen from you.
this is not the case, because everytime you steal, something is not stolen from you.
when something is stolen from you, you often react in a negative way. you will be upset, maybe say something upsetting to someone else. what you perhaps said to someone else may cause them to say something negative to someone else.
karma is simply an energy, what you do affects something somewhere.
that something somewhere is affected by your energy.
it expells energy based upon the energy recieved.
it is a massive circle of energy being transferred.
an easier way to approach karma is to attempt to attract positive karma.
go out of your way to say something abnormally nice, and ACTUALLY MEAN IT. watch how they react, examine them throughout the day.
they will continue to expell more positive energy than before, no matter the faintest added amount, it will be there.

the approach this buddhist was taking is rather interesting, and to call him a douche is simply creating negative karma.

because lying does not always give you money, it is not cause and effect
what lying does cause is the negative energy you will harness, guilt, and how people will look at you, a liar.


OrgoneConclusion said:
Yeah, when the lion wrestles the zebra kill from the hyenas, I am sure it has trouble sleeping.



Indigenous said:
Maybe if you are raised by wolves. I think that all humans learn right from wrong. Right and wrong are variables that would depend on society.
Do you feel there is no right and wrong?


i urge you to watch an animal more closely. When do animals go out of their way to cause harm to another? Never. Survival my friends. SURVIVAL. of course they do not have trouble sleeping, they have a full stomach. did they kill for no reason? they killed to live to the next day. now do we see the lions beat their cubs like humans do? do we see violence between the lion and lioness? no. animals have a sense of energy that our base senses do not even compare to. animals do not expel negative energy. they simply be. they take no more than necessary to survive, and reproduce. things we could definitely learn from.

right and wrong are proven to be in the eye of the beholder. truth is only true when believed true. the idea of right and wrong is better placed as negative and positive energy. things you do will cause negative impact on others, in plain terms, WRONG. when you positively impact another, right.


--------------------
Rise from the murky water of negativity
Allow your petals to peel open and emit rays of love

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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