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OfflineCaptain Loafy McPoopdick
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Karma
    #3508921 - 12/16/04 03:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Can someone briefly explain karma please?
does it work like this?
This sounds childish but it's kind of my point because it seems to be the simplest way
Say if a hamster bit my finger causing me to bleed and in return I give it the beating of the little guys life time.
Would this be karma? did he get what he diserved?
Or
What if the hamster bit me making me bleed, I beat it. Then later I give someone something free even know I could have scammed them out of some easy money....Would that mean I redeemed myself of the bad karma if I was wrong to beat it?
I don't know if I explained that to well
But it's a true story and I feel terrible for beating the poor little thing :sad: and now I feel something horrible will happen to me. how long does karma take?


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Karma [Re: Captain Loafy McPoopdick]
    #3508999 - 12/16/04 04:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I don't have time to fully respond, but my simplest answer is that karma is cause and effect. The imprints you put on your mind create the way you experience the world. If you beat the hamster it probobly did something in the past to incur it, but you will also create the negative cause to also be beaten in the future. You can't really blame the hamster, or anyone for that matter. They don't understand and cannot remember their past actions and are caught in a vicious cycle.

You can purify your own negative karma by developing sincere regret for hurting the animal and feel empathy for it. Doing good things helps, but it seems that in order to correct karma for hurting an animal you would have to do something positive to counteract that SPECIFIC negativity. Being altruistic as a result will improve your karma in a general sense, but you still have account for the individual action.

BTW, karma can take seconds to lifetimes to effect you. Anyway, you should not worry about personal retribution. From a karmic point of view it is much better to be concerned about hurting the hamster instead of your own consequences. If you care only for others you won't have to worry about pain or suffering.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Karma [Re: Captain Loafy McPoopdick]
    #3509058 - 12/16/04 04:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I believe karma to be a metaphorical and abstracted explanation for guilt.

Basically it works like this... hamster bites you for undetermined reasons (probably because he was afraid of you) and you react out of anger.

Part of you realizes this reaction was inappropriate (or else you wouldn't be here posting right now, I'd wager) and that part of you inflicts guilt upon yourself for what you've done.

Think about it.. you beat the hamster, and now you're beating yourself up over it. That's not just a convenient play on words, it's a diagram of what karma means.

In order to remove this manifestation of negative karma (aka, guilt) you must make amends with yourself.

This means that you'd a) Accept your actions and the responsibility for those actions, and b) Realize your own true disagreement with those actions and in turn make it a point not to react in such a way again.

Just my 2 cents...


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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Re: Karma [Re: Captain Loafy McPoopdick]
    #3509121 - 12/16/04 04:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If you're nice, helpful, and do what you think is best for everyone/thing, and then something you think is unfair or bad happens to you, you can whine about it with out feeling any guilt.

That's what I've picked up from hearing people talk about their "karma".


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Karma [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3509314 - 12/16/04 05:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well said Jacques!

I like how you equated karma with GUILT and how the punishment of the guilty just perpetuates itself. First the hamster was guilty of wrong doing so it got punished, then the punisher felt guilty for judging and punishing and it started to punish itself with guilt. Acting from a place of guilt and self punishment sets one up to create more experiences to feel guilty and punished for.

Living in forgiveness cancels out the karmic effect of judgment, guilt and punishment for yourself. Wahtever it was you are being in forgiveness of it may still have its own karma to deal with and that is its problem-no longer yours.

Had you forgiven the hamster for what it did not do in malice, but out of fear and moved to feel compassion and understanding for the natural fears of the animal, it would've ended right there with compassion being the energy left for you to dwell in...ahhhhhhhhhhh

Or one step further, had you forgiven yourself for acting in anger as a natural responce to being in pain, you would have been showing yourself compassion and understanding and in turn would've dwelled in that with your hamster.

Compassion , understanding and forgiveness cancels it all out.

However, it's great that divided sky brought up karma in the cause and effect sense.

Realizing that every causative thought , feeling, word and action will have an effect puts you in the place of being responsible and accountable for the effects you cause in your life. You can use this to your well-being by watching out for and taking care in the effects you create with what you cause in thought, feeling, word and action.

Effects like consequences can be GOOD. cause is a creative tool. use it responsibly and if you fuck up, look to understand with compassion and forgiveness and from there make new causative choices so you don't repeat creating the same negative effects or consequences.

Thinking bad thoughts=feeling bad=speaking or acting badly=doing something you end up feeling guilty for and then punishing yourself and others for.

Thinking good thoughts=feeling good=speaking or acting good=feeling good about yourself and others=self reward

Pretty simple tool for creating an ideal life with. Cause and effect acts as a SELF corrective devise in this way. Guilt karma is punishment stuff that goes in hand with duality consciousness that makes judgments of bad and wrong. The bad and wrong are guilty of something and must be punished to learn from their mistakes. this is when a outside force plays god.

Usually, the force doing the judging and punishing, ends of feeling guilty and ends up punishing itself OR another external force to that judges it for wrong doing and sets out to punish it. It's a vicious cycle, sort of like a back up system when people are not working with simple cause and effect to self correct moving towards good will for the self and all in a place of forgiveness which comes from compassion and understanding- the ideal.

I think the ability to allow the freedom for one to learn from the natural consequence of cause and effect combined with compassion, forgiveness and understanding leads to the ability to self correct to better create the experiences of good will for the self and all.

I've raised my daughter in this freedom and it seems to be working quite well. She has never done a thing in need of punishing and she is 8. No teacher or care giver has had any experience close to warranting some sort of discipline or time out. to the contrary, they find her to be a joy and easy to be in the care of.

Self love and respect and a love and respect for others is its own discipline and it works when applied consistently and constantly.

Of course, babes are easier then applying this to an old dog reared in the ways of the old world caught up intensivley in the cycle. Non the less, where there is a will there is a way to cancel out negative guilt karma.

That sums up my understanding of it all.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineBanJankri
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Re: Karma [Re: Captain Loafy McPoopdick]
    #3509453 - 12/16/04 05:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

so dont beat your hamster :smile:


--------------------
Just let everything flow, just flow right to the center of everything. You gotta turn off your mind and relax, and then just float downstream...


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Karma [Re: Captain Loafy McPoopdick]
    #3509472 - 12/16/04 05:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

karma is the spiritual worlds reflection back upon yourself, of the things you relected to others in the pysical world around you.

I think :wink:


Anyways, be nice, and nice things will come to you...

that is karma in a quick glance.


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Karma [Re: Captain Loafy McPoopdick]
    #3509510 - 12/16/04 05:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i beleive there are big misconceptions about karma, especially about good and bad karma, its not about tallying up marks on the board, but experiencing what you have to in this life time in order to learn and expand/open your consciousness/soul. sure we might have brought behaviours and the likes of from past lives but that doesn't mean that we bring in the bad or good that we experienced into this life from the past. at death we go over what we have learned, and if there are lessons that we did not learn this time might get carried over into the next if you choose so, and at the start of the next life/birth all good and bad deeds that you experienced from that past life is cleaned from the slate.

life is about experience and learning, you can either choose to learn from your lessons and experiences or not but sooner or later you are going to have to learn that lesson, choose to push yourself to learn or not doesn't really matter for we have all eternity to learn.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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Invisibleninjapixie
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Re: Karma [Re: Captain Loafy McPoopdick]
    #3509913 - 12/16/04 07:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I heard in an Alan Watts lecture that karma in sanskrit means 'you're doing', and that's all it means.

Like the way you have been raised and conditioned, causes you to act the way you do.

For example, you've been raised in our society to finish school and get a job. This karma, this need to fulfill these obligations weighs you down, preventing you from doing other things to help liberate yourself.


--------------------
Put that monkey back in the oven.


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OfflineKenny7822
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Re: Karma [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3509921 - 12/16/04 07:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This is a little off topic but are there such things as wild hampsters? I asked some people in school that question today and no one could come up with an answer haha.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Karma [Re: Kenny7822]
    #3511096 - 12/16/04 10:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

very few mind states are without karma, but apparently after illumination, the buddhists abide in akusala or inoperative mind moments. (nonresultant with pleasure or neutral feeling)
all other mind moments are either resultant or causative.
for causitive:
the good karma mind moments have love clarity and generosity
the bad karma mind moments have hatred greed and delusion.
for resultant:
bad karma has feeling of pain
good karma has feeling of pleasure.
Pretty simple huh?


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OfflineCaptain Loafy McPoopdick
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Re: Karma [Re: Kenny7822]
    #3511169 - 12/16/04 11:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kenny7822 said:
This is a little off topic but are there such things as wild hampsters? I asked some people in school that question today and no one could come up with an answer haha.



lmfao but I don't know hahahaha :lol: but that son'a bitch hurt...


and thanks to everyone who has helped...I mean it :smile:


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OfflinePed
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Re: Karma [Re: Captain Loafy McPoopdick]
    #3511209 - 12/16/04 11:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Karma is a special instance of cause and effect whereby our actions are the cause and our experiences are the effect. Every action that we commit is coloured by our intention. Every experience that we encounter is coloured by the intent behind our past actions. If our past actions have been mostly negative, then our our experiences shall be mostly negative. If our past actions have been mostly positive, then our experiences shall be mostly positive.

The theory has it's basis on the idea that there is no ultimate distinction between the mind and the world perceived by mind. It's because there is no ultimate distinction between these two most basic elements of our experience that the climate of one has such influence on the other. It is like shouting in a gymnasium. If you shout hateful words, you will experience hateful words echoing back to your ears. If you shout loving words, you will experience loving words echoing back to your ears.

Karma is closely related to the reincarnation idea. In the confines of a single, finite existence, it's difficult to accept Karma as an aspect of our existence, because there are many discrepancies between what people do and what they experience. There is the expression "Nice guys finish last", for example. Some people commit very many negative actions, yet live in opulence and appear quite blissful. By the same token, some are inclined toward more positive actions, yet live in poverty and hunger. It's necessary to accept the idea of past lives, and the karma of our past lives, to explain how the actions of this life have no immediately observable rammifications in this life.

To properly understand karma, it must be conceived of as an ocean of cause and effect as complex and diverse as that of an entire universe.


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Anonymous

Re: Karma [Re: Captain Loafy McPoopdick]
    #3511997 - 12/17/04 02:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Much of what can be said on this subject has already been said, but let me just add this analogy.

Karma is like a pendulum. The pendulum must start swinging with a single action. Let's say that you are the one who set the pendulum in motion. The effect is that it'll first swing toward a particular person, and then swing back toward you. When the pendulum reaches either of you, you each have the choice of pushing it to add momentum, or not touching it and allow it to lose momentum. The karmic cycle can only end when you both make the choice not to add to the momentum of the pendulum, and it finally slows to a stop in the center. Balance.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Karma [Re: ]
    #3512010 - 12/17/04 02:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Max,

I liked that analogy and it did give a different angle on karmic energy between people or even ones own inner struggles between the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other.

Pictures are worth 1,000 words.

What if two people are pushing love and understanding even harder?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Anonymous

Re: Karma [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3512027 - 12/17/04 02:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What if two people are pushing love and understanding even harder?

Then keep it going for as long as possible. :smile:

The problem is when one's ego can't handle the momentum, the intensity of emotion. At that point the love is transmuted into something else, like hate or anger, which often causes the other person to stop pushing.


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