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InvisibleLanaM
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Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer * 1
    #896363 - 09/21/02 12:11 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Hi everyone,
Here's a post by a lawyer which I thought was pretty good. It's from www.overgrow.com. Enjoy.

Lana


http://www.overgrow.com/edge/showthread.php?s=b95232d660a7fda114aa8c3e3dddd774&threadid=179738

The care and feeding of your lawyer
Hi OGers:

I'm in my early thirties and was a criminal defense lawyer in a large state in the USA until recently switching to an all civil caseload (more money, less stress). I discovered Overgrow about two years ago and have very rarely posted on other topics under my usual nom de guerre. I do not grow but am a true "friend of the herb". I am posting under this name just once for general privacy reasons as well as because I do not wish to be contacted in any way for legal advice. However, if you have specific questions on the topics covered after reading this, I will try to answer to the best of my ability.
I've seen many posts on how to react, what to do etc. when pulled over by Leo, search situations, and how not to get caught in the first place. But I have yet to see a post on the basics of what to do after one has just been arrested beyond "Keep your mouth shut." Good advice, but there is much more you will have to do immediately. With that in mind I wrote out some of my thoughts.
OK, so you've been busted, now what? First, face reality. What you've done is illegal and you can't count on anything turning out as you may have imagined it. As the Led Zeppelin song says, "Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good." Second, hold your head up high. What you've done is illegal, but should not be. You are now a casualty in an unjust and corrupt war and history will vindicate you. Cold comfort, but I do believe it is true. Third, get busy! You have embarked upon a very dark period in your life and will need maturity and a clear head to get you through it. Good looks and charm and your pimpin' way with the ladies will not be enough.
Research a good criminal defense lawyer. You should have already done this (more on that later). But, if you didn't, ask around. Most lawyers will do a free consultation with you. Beware the attorney who immediately after talking with you promises that he can get a specific deal for you. Promises of this nature are unethical, and an unethical lawyer is more likely to screw you than be so brilliant he can hoodwink the state and a judge. Drug case are very specialized and technical undertakings. In my lawyer, I would want at least 5 years criminal defense experience and the more drug cases the better. The better he (or she) knows your prosecutor and judge, the better off you will be. So get one who is making regular trips to the courthouse and has practiced in the jurisdiction where your case will be adjudicated. Each state, county and even the particular judge will have different rules about pretrial and trial procedure. Your lawyer must at the very least be aware of these and if need be to check further. Missed filing or appearance dates can be extremely damaging. Your lawyer should be familiar with various bail bondsman and direct you to one who is honest (but then the only way this will help is if you know what lawyer you will call BEFORE an emergency). If you had the foresight to have the name and number of your lawyer in your wallet when arrested, he can usually be instrumental in easing you through the process. This way you may not have to get to know your new cellmate Bubba at the county jail.
With the exception of the public defender, you will be paying much of your hard earned (grown?) cash to your lawyer for his wise counsel. You may see your lawyer on the free and easy, tooling around in his new Mercedes and alligator shoes, but it was not always this way. No! He toiled like a stepchild all the way through high school, college, and most of all law school working long hours under pressure you can only imagine. He crammed his head with knowledge to the point of bursting while foregoing the ordinary pleasures of mortal life all to help you get out of the mess you are in. So, after you find a lawyer you feel comfortable with, give him some credit, he's one smart motherfucker and you should LISTEN TO HIM!!!
Something nobody ever mentions on OG when talking about a personal or commercial grow is how much a lawyer is going to cost if you get busted. Depending on your area, his skill, experience ect., anywhere from $130 (very small town) to $350 per HOUR (US). So he is going to sit down and figure out how much time it will probably take for an investigation, preparing papers to file, going to pre-trial hearings, either a plea or a trial ect. and come up with a figure. So you need to be ready to be honest with yourself about how strong the evidence is against you and be thinking about whether you want to accept a plea bargain or roll the dice with either a bench or jury trial. Now, if your lawyer is smart (and he is) he is going to demand the full amount up front. Like, before he even gets out of bed. There is no such thing as a contingency fee in criminal law; they are illegal. If the lawyer gets the person off he's likely to never see the person again; if the person goes to prison - well convicts aren't known for punctually paying bills. These fees are on top of the weekly payments to your bondsman, and all the ordinary expenses of daily life before you got busted - save up accordingly. A colleague of mine had a client who actually socked away 10% of what he made on his illegal activities. When he was arrested he had about $70,000 to hire my friend and his paralegals, investigators etc. You know this already but I'll say it here - the more money you have the less likely you will see the inside of a prison cell. Not because the system is inherently corrupt or you can bribe anyone (bad idea), but because a large legal support team simply costs money. So, all heavy duty growers - please be kind to your lawyer and to yourself and set aside a sizeable amount (more than you think you would ever possibly need) somewhere that is UNTRACEABLE TO YOU AND YOUR NEFARIOUS ACTIVITIES. This usually means trusting somebody else implicitly to hold money for you or have an account in their name. This is already a security breach; if you can think of something better, great. If the cops can trace it to you and your "drug dealing" they will seize it and you can't use it to pay your new best friend.
Buck up, lil camper! You and your new best friend have something in common. You are both social misfits! The vast majority of criminal defense lawyers choose that field because, like you, they have a genuine love for the ideals this country was founded on as embodied in the Constitution and Bill of Rights (no matter how diminished these rights have become in the drug war). Nothing makes the defense lawyer's heart sing more than putting the prosecutor (and sometimes the judge) in a constitutional headlock and forcing him to recognize your rights and follow the law. They love the work and have the best stories ( I represented a transvestite shaman - DWI, and once had a client who full on crapped his pants right there at the defense table in the courtroom, among others.) But you have to listen to him and trust him. You may as well go it alone if you're not going to listen to him.
If you haven't followed any of this advice so far, all is not lost! If your indictment is felony grade, the 6th Amendment entitles you to a lawyer paid for by the state, otherwise known as the public defender or a court appointed lawyer, if you can't afford to pay for one yourself. Expect to have a short hearing on what assets you own that may be converted into cash to pay for your own lawyer. Judges don't like defendants suckling from the public teat if its avoidable. (Whether it is a public defender or appointed varies by jurisdiction, I'll just call all of them "public defenders"). Public defenders get a bad rap. I've never understood why. You may not feel like they have enough time for your super special and legally unique case. But often they are the most experienced criminal lawyers around with skills honed by use every day. What I said earlier about knowing the players in the jurisdiction goes double for these folks. Likely, they'll know everyone. They may even know the sheriff's deputies and probation officers and can be instrumental in easing you over any rough patches. And if your lawyer is appointed by the court, you may get a $300 per hour lawyer for free.
You can make yourself stand out to your lawyer by appearing interested in your own case, appearing like you are in touch with reality, and being polite. Venting your rage at society to your lawyer won't help anything, neither will explaining your vast knowledge of the law. In my experience, prisoners who find their way to the law library invariably misinterpret much of what they read. Certainly ask any questions you may have, but let your lawyer do his job.
One last thing. The 6th Amendment has been interpreted to not only provide you with counsel when charged, but also with a lawyer you can SPEAK TO within a REASONABLE time. What is reasonable varies by jurisdiction anywhere from 2 days to a month. However, and most importantly, your 5th Amendment right to remain silent is able to be invoked (by YOU, Bozo!, no cop is going to do it for you!) immediately upon your arrest. You know where I'm going with this. Have you ever seen an old west movie where a bear steps in one of those steel jaw traps and KA-CHANK!!! he's stuck until the trapper comes and blows his head off? When you are busted you need to keep your mouth shut as tight as that trap! SHUT YOUR TRAP! No matter what. Except for 7 words - "I want to SPEAK to my lawyer." Say it out loud three times right now! I said out LOUD, NOW!! And you will be able to remember it when it is important, like when the cops kick in your door right after you've smoked 4 fat bowls of AK-47.

That's it for now. This took about 1 hr. to write, so each of you owe me $225.00! Kidding, but if you feel led, please contribute to the anti-drug war organization of your choice.
Be safe,

Blue Law


--------------------
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InvisibleLanaM
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Registered: 10/28/99
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Re: Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer [Re: Lana]
    #898370 - 09/21/02 10:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Cool :smile:  I'm wondering who gave this a 5 star review :smile:

Lana


--------------------
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http://www.MycoSupply.com

The Premiere Source for Mushroom Growing Supplies.
Visit us online or call us toll free


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InvisibleFd3000
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Registered: 05/14/02
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Re: Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer [Re: Lana]
    #902023 - 09/23/02 05:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

5 for you and 5 for the thead!
Fd


--------------------
___________________________________________________________________
Fd3000 is really a brown dancing monster. He uses the info he gets from his crazy dreams to help those in need. Too bad he doesn't really exist...

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InvisiblereshroomED
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Re: Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer [Re: Fd3000]
    #936114 - 10/06/02 09:49 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Good post.
You can't emphasise the value of a good representative in court enough. I've tried legal aid, cheap lawyers etc, now I get the most well-known/best looked upon Co to front for me. It costs, but no-where near as much, especially if you value your freedom.


--------------------
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OfflineSirEHShackleton
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Re: Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer [Re: Lana]
    #980007 - 10/21/02 04:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So true...
I know of a guy who was selling pounds of mushrooms, pounds of really good pot (the stuff they're always saying is X number of times more potent than 30 years ago), and vile after vile of acid. Well, as it usually happens he got busted. But he gave his lawyer $60,000 he had earned that the cops didn't take and he got off with something like 6 months of house arrest. By all accounts he should have been doing some serious time. He got busted again when his PO came to his house for a surprise visit and found like 6 vials of acid, a few pounds of weed and like $20,000 cash in small bills. Right now as you might have guessed he's in prison. The reason why is basically because he didn't have another $60,000 for a lawyer.
Moral of the story is money can buy justice. Look at OJ, he dropped a couple mill and got off despite some pretty damning evidence.


--------------------
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Invisibleflavoraid
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Re: Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer [Re: Lana]
    #8412888 - 05/17/08 03:37 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I'm bumping this because of our new found friend who was just busted.

I'd like to add a free lawyer appointed by the court will not dedicated time to you at least not in Canada. They will do their job and get a good nights sleep or work hard on some one who is paying top dollar for the case.

It is also very very unlikely to get a 300$ an hour lawyer for free.

It is however very likely that that lawyer would deal with a lot of criminal drug related cases because of the nature of how he's hired.

95% of the time you would be better off paying for a lawyer.


--------------------
coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer [Re: flavoraid]
    #8414258 - 05/17/08 10:07 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

flavoraid said:
I'd like to add a free lawyer appointed by the court will not dedicated time to you

It is also very very unlikely to get a 300$ an hour lawyer for free.

95% of the time you would be better off paying for a lawyer.




normally I would agree but it does depend on the jurisdiction
and how the particular system works, I moved from a county that
required all criminal attorneys to dedicate one day each week to
the public defenders office in order to practice in the county.
with that you had good lawyers and shitty ones, most would try
and plead you out but one in particular stood out, he defended 3
friends and got the charges against each dropped, one sold acid
to an undercover cop


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Invisibleflavoraid
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Re: Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8414674 - 05/17/08 11:42 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

even if the 300$ an hour lawyer is hired by the state/country/province/w.e he's not going to do the same job he would if he were being hired by someone under normal circumstances.

of course there are exceptions.. I'm talking generally speaking. if say frank lucas caps someone on the street like he did in american gangster you would be like shit niggaz going to jail *generally speaking* you can get away with just about anything if your lucky.


--------------------
coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer [Re: flavoraid]
    #8414998 - 05/18/08 01:36 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

the problem is people expect the lawyer to do it all, you need to
nudge him or he's gonna plea you out, I've seen the $300/hr
lawyers do the same after collecting $2500 retainers, it's up to
the defendant to make the defense do the work, if your court
appointed attorney isnt doing his job, fire him in court and
request new council...


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Invisibleflavoraid
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Re: Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8415074 - 05/18/08 01:55 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

well if your lawyer is appointed by the court you can't really push him to do a lot for you because he won't prioritize your case.

it is true that a lot of people expect there lawyers to bend over for them but they're human and it's a business arrangement between client and lawyer. it's like if you hire someone to do labour and they don't work hard you tell them to work harder or you'll pay someone else to do whatever it is.

I never read or learned about firing your lawyer in court. I'm assuming your entiled to defense and you can't be tried without a lawyer present?

It would seem unfair otherwise, even considering it's your choice to fire your lawyer.


--------------------
coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer [Re: flavoraid]
    #8417495 - 05/18/08 08:14 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

flavoraid said:
well if your lawyer is appointed by the court you can't really push him to do a lot for you because he won't prioritize your case.




incorrect, he's paid to represent you, when your objections are
noted in open court we start down the path of mistrial, if you
want a not guilty plea and he's trying to plead you as a nolo,
guilty or anything but your intent... mistrial.

if you have no contact with your appointed attorney prior to
your court date which is often the case, it was your own
failings, not his. the lawyer will not know your intent and will
assume you're guilty and wish to enter you plea in such a manor
and work on plea bargains with the prosecution



Quote:

I never read or learned about firing your lawyer in court. I'm assuming your entiled to defense and you can't be tried without a lawyer present?




it happens all the time, again, you need to be in touch with
that attorney in order for him to know your wishes

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1188550945612
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4179/is_20041218/ai_n11822605
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070710210138AAa8qFW
http://www.news.com/2100-1001-821367.html


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8417616 - 05/18/08 08:45 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Prisoner is right, you can pretty much always fire your lawyer, but you'll need some reason if its a public defender and the court wants a reason and you want a new lawyer appointed.

Another trap is that you can't fire a lawyer for purpose of delay. As a practical matter this means the court may deny your request if you bring it up the week before trial or you've not talked to the guy and suddenly claim he doesn't represent your interests.

So if your on the eve of trial and suddenly don't want him, you may be stuck unless you wan to go pro se or the lawyer is plainly not representing you (pleading you contrary to your wishes et cet).

Pris is right, its your job to talk to your attorney. If he's not doing shit, you have to let the court know. If you try and fire him the day of trial, even though you have no idea what the procedure is, you may be stuck w/ him or nothing.

So stay on the bastards.


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OfflineChemy
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Re: Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer [Re: johnm214]
    #8419005 - 05/19/08 03:50 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

If you fire 3 public defenders with reason or COI, the courts here in Florida will pay for a private attorney to represent you. I've seen it happen.

Judges will allow you to fire an attorney or they risk mistrial or grounds for appeal (ineffective assistance of counsel).

I've also seen a Judge not allow a defendant to fire an attorney, because the case was already 18 months old, and the defendant was trying to buy time since a new attorney would afford the defendant another 3 continuances, and the guy was going up the road he knew he was done with the amount of evidence and confession that gave the SA a slam dunk case.

Also, if you're in custody it is hard as hell to get a hold of your PD, either they're in court or out to lunch, or it's their day off I've heard it all.

An attorney can not plea anything except "not guilty" with appearance waived for the defendant. When a plea deal is accepted the defendant alone pleas no contest or guilty, the attorney never enters a plea of guilt or no contest, the Judge also goes on a tangent for about 10 minutes asking questions about mental state, coercion to plea or whether the plea is voluntary, constitutional rights that are revoked as a result of guilty plea to a felony if you aren't a citizen you may be deported upon the completion of sentence. I've been through it too many times got it memorized.


--------------------
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God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin.

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Edited by Chemy (05/19/08 04:00 AM)


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Invisibleflavoraid
now with twicethe ketamine andopiates!
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Re: Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer [Re: Chemy]
    #8419147 - 05/19/08 05:55 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

hmm

i just want to clarify im from canada so things work differently

here... ive had lawyers flat out say they can't have their clients that are appointed by the province expect the same devotion as they're paid clients... my class had a few of the successful local lawyers do presentations and what not a few times last year.

im really drunk so i might not be thinking at the best of my ability ... I believe lawyers don't make the same amount of money with the court appointed clients... either because they work on quoted number of hours or because there actual hourly fee is lower.

I could find out for sure I just spoke with my law teacher today I could ask him if anyone is curious I don't really care... I don't think I'll be taking law classes any further and I think I'll either presue microbiology, chemistry or computer sciences.


--------------------
coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer [Re: flavoraid]
    #8420974 - 05/19/08 07:33 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

It's pretty easy to fire PDs usually. Even on trial day you can usually show up and just tell the judge that the PD didn't return your phone calls, didn't set up a meeting, didn't get the needed paperwork, etc. and they will be dismissed and a new one will be appointed.

Lawyers usually take their jobs pretty seriously and try to provide the best defence possible. For PDs that often means the best defence possible without doing much work though. But it's all in your hands, you basically have to figure out your own defence, do the research, and then convince the lawyer to really fight it out.


-FF


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Got Busted? Here's what to look for in a lawyer [Re: fastfred]
    #8421388 - 05/19/08 09:18 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:

Lawyers usually take their jobs pretty seriously and try to provide the best defence possible. For PDs that often means the best defence possible without doing much work though. But it's all in your hands, you basically have to figure out your own defence, do the research, and then convince the lawyer to really fight it out.


-FF




Yeah, I think people rag on public defenders too much though. I think they're basically as good as an average local criminal defense lawyer. Most likely that guy will simply take your money and file discovery requests and do shit you could do yourself if you weren't brain dead.

The local private attorney probably has the advantage of having some incentive to do well, get a good reputation, and demonstrating to the judge and prosecutor that the defendant is serious about the defense and may take it to trial.

The well-known good local attorney has the advantage of demonstrating to the prosecution that the client likely has decent money to afford to throw everything at the case, and is serious about the defense. Also the well-known attorney likely has a better raport, sometimes, with the judge and prosecutor, and finally, I think the judge and prosecutor are biased to his clients.

The prosecutor and judge think "this guy isn't some bum, he or his family have some cash and he's not some low life". I don't have any empiracle evidence, but I've seen good well-known local attorneys get judges put a defendant into an intervention program illegally, then dismissing the charges. Maybe it would have happened w/ the public defender, but I doubt it. When the judge and the prosecutor agrees to break the law for the client, I kinda think there's something else going on there, and court seldom has anything to do w/ justice.


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