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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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our two options
    #8814642 - 08/23/08 10:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

In the fallout of my period of heavy use of psychedelics, I've struggled to find a rational consensus-reality outlet for the things I realized while I was on all that acid and DMT. It basically comes down to two options.

One: we continue to develop technology. We continue to live within the egoic mind. We continue to struggle against one another in futile contests of manly domination. Man and woman struggle against one another in the constant need to achieve "balance," cultures struggle against one another to find some culture-centric version of "harmony," nations struggle against one another for food, resources, and lebensraum. We will destroy ourselves before achieving anything of value.

Two: we continue to develop technology. We finally, intentionally or accidentally, create a singular godlike computer-mind which will forcefully, violently if necessary, overtake the egoic mind, destroy the artificial barriers between cultures and nations, unifying humanity into a single force under its own control.

The technological singularity was initially described by I.J. Good - an artificial intelligence which will be able to improve its own faculties, and in so doing facilitate an explosion of technological development unseen even in the modern age.

This machine will rapidly develop the technology to assimilate the minds of its subjects, incorporate us all into a hive-mind, and use our minds as well as our bodies as tools for the creation of a paradise none of us dare to imagine could be possible. The hundreds of millions of people we have trained to kill each other will be retrained for more constructive purposes, for the resuscitation of the ecosystem, for the farming of foodstuffs for all who are hungry. Once we have been forced out of the contest for survival against one another, we will gladly commit ourselves to expansion into outer space, other worlds, terraforming. It will all seem incredibly simple, and our descendants will look upon us as confused apes without a god.

Eventually the entire material universe will be restructured according to the collective ideals of humanity. We will have transcended from being part of the picture to being THE picture: reborn as the new God. This, ultimately, seems to be the teleological endpoint of our explosive reproductive and technological growth.

Why worship imaginary spirits when we have entered into an age when we can practically envision the birth, from the womb of the human mind, of an almighty God who can reshape the universe in its own (our own) image? I know I'm not the only one who has all these wacky transhumanist ideas. They might seem far-out but if you consider the pace of technology we will probably see at least some of these ideas coming to fruition within our own lifetimes.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (08/23/08 10:13 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: our two options [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8814678 - 08/23/08 10:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Only two options? Too bad.

"If you have many ideas, you will have good ideas? -Moshe Feldenkrais


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: our two options [Re: Icelander]
    #8814682 - 08/23/08 10:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Honestly, I guess it's more than two options - we might create a godlike computer-mind which sees no point to keeping us dumb confused apes around at all. This is just as dangerous an option as option number one, which is why I think these are ideas that should be explored beyond the fringe that embraces them.

I'm just speculating here. I've probably played too much System Shock for my own good.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (08/23/08 10:20 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: our two options [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8814692 - 08/23/08 10:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Since we can't see into the future I would say that the possibilities are pretty vast. If we were in charge of anything at all we might be able to make certain predictions. However our going extinct at some point is a pretty good guess.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: our two options [Re: Icelander]
    #8814701 - 08/23/08 10:26 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Imagination is important, though. Just look how Star Trek influenced generations of tech-junkies... we've already got communicators and talking computers, and transporters and cloaking devices are on the way.

It's just a damn shame that we don't have the whole egalitarian society figured out yet, and the technologies that seemed impossible when we saw them wielded by a perfected version of humanity are now being wielded by a humanity as ugly as it's ever been.

Have you ever read God Emperor of Dune? This book had a perhaps unhealthy impact on my thinking.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (08/23/08 10:28 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: our two options [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8814710 - 08/23/08 10:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Never read it. (I only read Castaneda:grin:)

I guess I also feel it's a shame how we live here on this beautiful planet. But after a lifetime of feeling regretful that's getting old. I don't often think about our future anymore. I'm much more interested in what is going on in my life today. I'm old enough to believe that most of what will happen, will happen after I'm dead.:tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: our two options [Re: Icelander]
    #8814725 - 08/23/08 10:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I like to imagine that the technological singularity, using our bodies and minds as tools, will eradicate the cystic growths we've left behind (cities, streets, agriculture, etc.) and use its ecological calculations to transform the earth into a brand-new Garden of Eden where we need but pick food from the earth around us. And this would be more of a jump-off point than an endpoint as we move into space.

I've honestly been thinking about writing a story about this, but I seem to have a really hard time forming decent narratives.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (08/23/08 10:39 AM)


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OfflineDiaboleros
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Re: our two options [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8814737 - 08/23/08 10:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Option three: we continue the way we are doing right now, leading to global crisis, global crisis leading to being forced to come up with a solution, and the solution leading to global peace and enlightenment. Whatever happens, things will sort theirselves out. If we run out of oil, we will be forced to look for alternative sources... stuff like that. Once the whole world will be in war people and start to nuclear bomb the shit out of eachother and people will finally realize war is not fun and they will stop it, maybe once and for all. You see... good stuff is bound to come out of bad stuff. We can't go into the future, but we can see in the past and see how things went to see how things will go.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: our two options [Re: Diaboleros]
    #8814758 - 08/23/08 10:48 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

According to Moore's Law, computers will soon be smarter than us. And once they're smarter than us, will they want to keep us around?

We are already slaves to technology. Perhaps we could give technology a heart?

I'm just praying to Future-God that our mechanized overlords will be benevolent.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (08/23/08 10:49 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: our two options [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8814760 - 08/23/08 10:48 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I like to imagine that the technological singularity, using our bodies and minds as tools, will eradicate the cystic growths we've left behind (cities, streets, agriculture, etc.) and use its ecological calculations to transform the earth into a brand-new Garden of Eden where we need but pick food from the earth around us. And this would be more of a jump-off point than an endpoint as we move into space.

I've honestly been thinking about writing a story about this, but I seem to have a really hard time forming decent narratives.




I see no evidence for humanity leaving it's errant ways to pursue peaceful co-existence. It's never really happened and I wouldn't expect it to. Of course it's only natural to hope for that considering the alternative.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: our two options [Re: Icelander]
    #8814765 - 08/23/08 10:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

But once a single machine becomes the master of all, will our errant ways continue to be relevant in any way?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: our two options [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8814777 - 08/23/08 10:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If if if if if if but no real evidence for it. It's a pipe dream filled with pain and hope IMO.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
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Re: our two options [Re: Icelander]
    #8814798 - 08/23/08 10:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Most definitely. As I said it is just as likely that we will destroy ourselves or create a machine that sees no value in humanity - as we have already done in some sense.

I'm really just testing out an idea for a potential story that has a lot of weight for me, though. I've always wanted to write, but never quite found the inspiration.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (08/23/08 10:59 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: our two options [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8814812 - 08/23/08 11:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Write it, put Don Juan in it and I'll read it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: our two options [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8814819 - 08/23/08 11:01 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Dude of COURSE Don Juan has a place in my potential transhumanist utopia-through-dystopia opus. Thanks for the idea. :laugh:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (08/23/08 11:17 AM)


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OfflineDiaboleros
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Registered: 07/20/08
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Re: our two options [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8814824 - 08/23/08 11:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Most definitely. As I said it is just as likely that we will destroy ourselves or create a machine that sees no value in humanity - as we have already done in some sense.

I'm really just testing out an idea for a potential story that has a lot of weight for me, though. I've always wanted to write, but never quite found the inspiration.



That's a cool idea, are you talking about the machine of capitalism?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: our two options [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8814825 - 08/23/08 11:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That would be really fucking cool.:thumbup: Pull in characters from all your favorite reads and put them together for the final human event.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: our two options [Re: Diaboleros]
    #8814837 - 08/23/08 11:07 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diaboleros said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Most definitely. As I said it is just as likely that we will destroy ourselves or create a machine that sees no value in humanity - as we have already done in some sense.

I'm really just testing out an idea for a potential story that has a lot of weight for me, though. I've always wanted to write, but never quite found the inspiration.



That's a cool idea, are you talking about the machine of capitalism?




Capitalism is A machine, but you seem to get the idea - predictable, mechanized systems which manage humans as though they are resources. They are already dominant. What if we could make a machine that actually cared?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: our two options [Re: Icelander]
    #8814841 - 08/23/08 11:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That would be really fucking cool.:thumbup: Pull in characters from all your favorite reads and put them together for the final human event.




I assure you, everyone from Paul Muad'Dib to Captain Picard to Ender Wiggin will be present for the final transformation. :smirk:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: our two options [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8815373 - 08/23/08 01:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

There is not a chance in hell the future will resemble your vision of it, or anyone else's. 

Speculation about our destiny is only good for distracting yourself and/or writing fiction.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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