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In his State of the Union Address last Tuesday, President Bush warned that if the U.S. fails in Iraq, al Qaeda will gain a safe haven from which to launch attacks against America.

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Senator Chuck Hagel, a Republican of Nebraska, has it right. "I have never been persuaded to believe that whether we stay there six months, a year, or two years, that if we would leave, that somehow Iraq would turn into a haven for terrorists."

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And a full 80% believe the US should continue to fight Al Qaeda and foreign jihadis in Iraq.

Some of these findings appear contradictory. But Professor Toby Dodge of Queen Mary College, London, says they suggest an increased pragmatism.

"The big counterintuitive finding is that even though many indicators show Iraqis opposed to the United States, there seems to be a growing awareness of what might happen if the US pulls out," he says.

One way to read these numbers, he says, is that Iraqis have "looked into the abyss" of all-out civil war, and taken a step back.

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klimt said:

When you put down the kool-aide, I'll be happy to discuss more with you, but so long as you continue to drink it... I am not going to waste my time from someone who refuses to contemplate consequences (or worse, thinks there are none). Enjoy your drinks!

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I asked you for some substantiation regarding your views on Obama's foreign policy in regards to Iraq; specifically, what is his plan, as he has expressed it. Let me go one step further now and ask you how this plan would turn Iraq over to the worst-case scenario you outlined earlier. Anything I've gathered suggests that he is advocating shifting our role to one that incrementally brings Iraq to have greater responsibility in their own security, which is something that has been occurring with marked success. If anything, it seems that Obama would be a much more strategic and intelligent commander-in-chief than someone like Bush or McCain.

Please provide something substance to the viewpoint that we need large amounts of ground troops in Iraq, as we have now, for Iraq to be stable and secure. Clearly pulling the rug out from under them by evacuating all troops out at once would accomplish the worst-case scenario you outlined, yet.... Obama hasn't advocated that. The decrease in violence and instability has much less to do with the fact we have more ground troops with the surge and much more to do with the fact that Iraqis have played an expanded role in securing themselves, coupled with the fact that now the military has targeted and eliminated the makers of road-side bombs, which is something that was not done in the beginning.

By all means, enlighten us as to Obama's expressed plans and their inherent flaws. Also, I'd like for someone to outline why exactly McCain would make a good commander-in-chief. I honestly don't see it.

zappaisgod said:

And fireworks_god you said you'd drop a tenner on the Shroomery.  Well?  It's been awhile.

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That depends on your definition of the word awhile. Its only been two weeks since McCain took the nomination. Furthermore, that time scale is relative. While it is certainly enough of a time scale for someone who is in the midst of working a full-time job and receiving regular paychecks, that sense of ample time is not equivalent to someone who quit their full-time job two weeks prior to that, spent the first week of that two week period traveling across a few states to visit family, and then the last week spending twenty hours between airplanes and airports, moving to a new country. When I receive my bonus check towards the end of the month, I will be sending a donation to the Shroomery, as was already planned.

I apologize if this life situation does not fufill your expectations, yet you never made the bet with me in the first place.

Quote:

welcher

noun
someone who swindles you by not repaying a debt or wager

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