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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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LSD and it's completely different nature
    #8088777 -

Most people are still on the rails about wether or not Acid is different then Mushrooms much at all I dont understand how one can have tripped enough on both and not see or feel the difference? I find them completely utterly divergently different... welll, other then the fact that they can both put you in ultra powerful headspaces, mindsets, or trips or whatever you wanna call it.

Ok, well no Ill admit... they have a very similar backbone on how either substance (Or whatever)works in the brain, but other then just the general backbone of psychedelia and mind manefesting effects, nothing.

For example on Acid, I can come to a reasonable conclusion on why and how Im feeling what euphoria Im feeling or whatever dread Im feeling, or confusion or anything for that matter... On Mushrooms for example, I cant; nothing makes sense and its all immaterial and commming from external source... which is extremely evident and cosmically tangible on high enough doses with right setting and set.

Yet the same can be said for both substances, funnily enough... Like with Acid some people and me on occasion can some times get more confused and uncomfortable on acid then on Mushrooms because of commpletely tangible and naturally... totally relevent circumstances and/or thoughts; because of the specific (imo) LSDès time dilation effects... less casacading and more tension and release having be on edge... a different kind... mmhhhm yeess... but that is irrelevant; anyway... I need some imput on specifically why people connote these two very different psychededlics to something other then two completely different tools; thus not be fully able (possiblly and I hope not) to be perceived the same way, thus making each type of whatever trip you are gonna have on either substance compleltely lacking in the true substance of each different LSD and Psilocybin experience.

Like jeez... Mushrooms equals (IMHO only) the more enthenogenic spiritual and over all more hard to explain substance of the two, even though Acid has (IMHO again) more of scope or range of effects, even though Acid seems to be less differential between trips then Mushrooms, which almost gives a completely different outlook on a trip with each new one... but subtly so the same goes for LSD.

I would also like to see some opinions maybe on what some of the differences are in time dilation and other cognative effects (which is almost entirely what Acid about and what Mushrooms isnèt... subtly though of course sharing some mediocrely similar cues of ones cognitive awareness and actions, only IMHO though) and also other effects like visuals (which are deep rooted in the trip, imo)and sensory perception andéor awareness (again importent).

Sorry for the rambling post but I am high at 7:10 in the morning the day after a very minor one hit acid trip. My brain is swelling and my chest and head are congested sadly.

Dang, it did not seem so big in this little box we use here.


--------------------
Guess what?; You...


A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.

Edited by allisthesame (03/01/08 05:14 AM)

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: allisthesame]
    #8088786 -

That was a good way of putting it. I would agree that mushrooms are much more organic and natural where as acid feels like "electricity".

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: Hotsauce72]
    #8088790 -

Wierd metally electricity that is tangble and yet completely immaterial at the same time... and I do not know if I might even be contradicting myself by saying that...

oops even though I already did and my stupid brain is trying to put the words in a different context.

You gotta give a little love for those who love to live... and take down the hate. :cool: Ahhh


--------------------
Guess what?; You...


A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.

Edited by allisthesame (03/01/08 05:36 AM)

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: allisthesame]
    #8089357 -

Acid to me is more "graspable"; It is like a computer program to me. Acid is not quite generic. I ALMOST don't even consider it tripping. Mushrooms, for me, now they are a trip.

Kind of like, one teaches you by submission, and the other by action. Polar opposites on certain things for me, yet closely related. Extroverted and introverted as I read some where on this site.

There is really a lot to say about this, :lol:

I'm sure the others will fill in the gaps, as there is always gaps to be filled in, it seems. I will probably chime in later, my grandma is here though.


--------------------

"I'm looking at you looking at it"

SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion



Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #8089370 -

For me mushrooms are more of an internal change, acid an external.

They have similarities, but are completely distinguishable on their own, so i would agree that it's rather difficult to say they are the same. It's simply not true.

What you said about acid,

Quote:
on Acid, I can come to a reasonable conclusion on why and how Im feeling what euphoria Im feeling or whatever dread Im feeling


Is very true. I constantly realize that i am tripping balls, and this realization is the anti-mindfuck. It's somewhat difficult on mushrooms to achieve such a circumstance.


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for all y’all niggaz out there that be puffin shit
when the music go on, y’all listen to this alright

Edited by (03/01/08 11:11 AM)

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: anyone420]
    #8089544 -

there are various kinds of alcohol on the shelves ranging in price and smootheness and "subtle" aspects.
gin is so different from beer, but both are alcohol.
arguably the same effect with obvious differences.

I think the effect with acid and mushroom is best seen with acid. acid with a teensy amount of material elicits a continuous ramped curve of psychedelic effects (frame stacking, tracers, layers etc.etc). ramp is single and fast.

Mushrooms elicit the same effect but the ramp is not smooth, as the unconcentrated material enters the blood from gut in stages. multiple ramps occur with mushroom due to unconcentrated material. especially if chewed and swallowed.

however if you drink a mushroom tea quickly you will get a faster more singular ramp. (more like lsd, but still a different flavor, literally - as between vodka & whisky.

the psychedelic effect of frame stacking or time stalling or time gelling or dimensional layering, is pretty discombobulating while the ramping takes place. when it steadies you can ride it with a kind of confidence.

if it keeps shifting density from lesser and greater time stalling or layering, then you may have less confidence about the process. Mushroom is like that. but the effect is the same, just the staging and delivery or nuance is different.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8090120 -

LSD takes you farther easier

Shrooms can take you far out there, as well, but they are not an easy trip.

As long as you have the proper set and setting, LSD is usually very kind....

On shrooms, you can have a difficult time for no observable reason at all.

Time moves slowly on Mushrooms and much faster on LSD for me

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: Phish20]
    #8090429 -

I agree, LSD and psilocybin are very different drugs. I think these differences stand out a lot more in psychedelics compared to other drugs (stimulants, opiates, benzos) because they are so complex and whole.


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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: allisthesame]
    #8090465 -

allisthesame said:
For example on Acid, I can come to a reasonable conclusion on why and how Im feeling what euphoria Im feeling or whatever dread Im feeling, or confusion or anything for that matter... On Mushrooms for example, I cant; nothing makes sense and its all immaterial and commming from external source... which is extremely evident and cosmically tangible on high enough doses with right setting and set.


Well said.

Yea for me the two drugs are about as different as mushrooms and ecstasy, ecstasy and acid, mesclaline and mushrooms... they are two very different drugs.

I could never pick a favorite. Acid, for me, is the ultimate "zone." Just put a couple hits on my tongue and I start flowing. I am alive, the world is alive, the energy is all around, fear is left behind, I can groove and live in the eternal moment--it is a PARTY. Its active, powerful, energetic yoga.

Mushrooms, on the other hand, are spell-binding, sacred, eternal, magical. They show me that I don't exist. They show me that the zen lunatics are right--that we have a clusterfuck of angels and demons swiriling around in our head, that identification with that mind is an error of judgment. Mushrooms also tell me that we have a whole universe inside us, every breath is a gift of unimaginable proportions.

Acid is a party, mushrooms are an ecstatic spiritual dissolution. Not to say that acid is all fun and games, and I've never gone TOO far out in acid world, but mushrooms, low dose or high, are always more serious, to me.


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_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
_________________________________________________________________

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: Phish20]
    #8090485 -

as for the mobility of time -
normally time moves at one constant
(when emotional it goes faster or slower)

on LSD it moves both fast and slow at the same time which is uncanny but you can get used to it

on Mushroom it moves both fast and slow at the same time as well but the limits keep shifting, so it is hard to get used to it.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8090897 -

I like what your saying Noviseer, and allisthesame....

I feel that it is all really in your mind...Mushrooms does offer a more tangible experience I would have to say as well..the picture I always had in my head to describe the LSD was like a child in a room full of helium filled balloons of different thoughts and emotions...and you are trying to grasp this rushing sensation and it isn't very easy to grab these thoughts and hold on to them very long it's more like a roller coaster ride and you are just going from turn to turn...

ill add more later im tired


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Behind Closed Eyelids

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: Bend the Bong]
    #8092611 -

What exactly is the nature of this board? To keep making new threads? Sorry but, wtf happened? Let me see what happened...

Well, maybe it's been a slow day?

Ok, fine... which is more condusive for what and how does it work different for whichever?


--------------------
Guess what?; You...


A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.

Edited by allisthesame (03/02/08 04:55 AM)

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8092723 -

redgreenvines said:
there are various kinds of alcohol on the shelves ranging in price and smootheness and "subtle" aspects.
gin is so different from beer, but both are alcohol.
arguably the same effect with obvious differences.


With the same outcome though... and beginning and so on.

Quote:
I think the effect with acid and mushroom is best seen with acid. acid with a teensy amount of material elicits a continuous ramped curve of psychedelic effects (frame stacking, tracers, layers etc.etc). ramp is single and fast.


Different doses do different things... Mushrooms, Azureacens(spelling?) 5 grams... about as strong as low level "Saturation" dose for LSD... and LSD stops getting stronger... Psilocybin can go on and on from my experience. But LSD naturally goes on and on as well... and literally.

Quote:
Mushrooms elicit the same effect but the ramp is not smooth, as the unconcentrated material enters the blood from gut in stages. multiple ramps occur with mushroom due to unconcentrated material. especially if chewed and swallowed.


True indeed, but you don't think that it could differ more then just that? Could it be so dependant on ones psyche that, even though each substances effects from the outcome to the actual "Trip" (from my experience),that the difference of Mushroom trip and an LSD trip is mearly imagined and I am simply experiencing the same experience only through a different time signature if you will? It could be that simple, but if so it's still produces a markedly different effect...

Quote:
however if you drink a mushroom tea quickly you will get a faster more singular ramp. (more like lsd, but still a different flavor, literally - as between vodka & whisky.


Again true but what you're getting still isn't an LSD like trip at all just a more similar ramp, right? Don't you still trip for basically 5-6 hours less anyway drinking tea, why? because it's Psilocybin.

Quote:
the psychedelic effect of frame stacking or time stalling or time gelling or dimensional layering, is pretty discombobulating while the ramping takes place. when it steadies you can ride it with a kind of confidence.


Like Salvia, eh? Well, I wouldn't lump Salvia with anything else, cause not only does it have a completely radical layering effect with time but it has completely radical perspective shift too, not to mention the effects you could consider recreational (if at all anything importent in most cases) like the visions and tactile, olfactory(whatever) and taste senses. Same with LSD and Psilocybin and same with PROLLY any other entheogenIC substance... unfortunatly no Mescaline or DMT for me yet. Oh yeah and not to mention that when you see through the death and\or taming of your ego on LSD you see a very different effect on your over all perspective and perception then on anything else, including very much so underappreciated Mushroom.

Quote:
if it keeps shifting density from lesser and greater time stalling or layering, then you may have less confidence about the process. Mushroom is like that. but the effect is the same, just the staging and delivery or nuance is different.


Not everything is layers... it's not just the mechanism, it's also how you're brain is for one, functioning, and 2: realizing and 3: well, making you feel.

-|-|-|-|-|-_\-|-|-|-|-|-\\\()-|-|-|-|-|-_\-|-|-|-|-|-\\\()-|-|-|-|-|-_\-|-|-|-|-|-\\\()
turn this into a fractal expanding in all directions and fracturing radically into different ones with different faults and noticable perfections/imperfections you have ACID

------\_||||------\_||||()------\_||||------\_||||()------\_||||------\_||||()
Turn this into a perfect sine wave of a spiral undulating unto itself like if all it's composed of surrounds your perception and you've got Mushrooms

Although it's a very bad comparison...

I hope this post gets to you.

Edited by allisthesame (03/02/08 05:37 AM)

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: allisthesame]
    #8092738 -

LSD seems to be very theme based, for example.. aliens..
The music will sound alien, the people will seem to be aliens, the place your in is alien, and then it shifts when you start thinking about another thought.
You can also get multiple themes going at the same time, and these start to slowly evolve during the trip.


Mushrooms seems to be emotionally based, and for me, they seem to affect my emotions, which is very hard to control, so I can feel dread and happiness at the same time.
It seems to be very confusing.

Also LSD comes in waves, where as mushrooms come in one large wave.

LSD also seems to focus not so much on details, but on the whole, like a large painting will come to life. The characters will move slightly, the scenery will look real and stretch outside of the painting.

Now on mushrooms, you will seek out details in that painting, which turn into overlayed images, for example eyes/pyramids will start to form from the painting, but the painting itself will not come alive.

This is my experience of these drugs.


--------------------
uarewotueat - "Libs are messy as hell, I don't know whether to take a shit or get a haircut when I'm on them!"

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: blacksun]
    #8092758 -

blacksun said:
LSD seems to be very theme based, for example.. aliens..
The music will sound alien, the people will seem to be aliens, the place your in is alien, and then it shifts when you start thinking about another thought.
You can also get multiple themes going at the same time, and these start to slowly evolve during the trip.


Yes, exactly... but I feel a theme with the emotional aspect of Mushrooms as well. And also the over all theme of the scope of effects unfolded to be of a different nature. Like for example, Acid builds on subtleties for me that like you said, create themes and in some cases multiple ones for that matter to show the over all scope of the trip. The outcome always is different and the subtleties can range from completely benign to too radical and too far out to expand on. And with Mushrooms the theme is always the same the outcome is always the same, everything is the same exept for how you percieve it.

Radically different for me.


Quote:
Mushrooms seems to be emotionally based, and for me, they seem to affect my emotions, which is very hard to control, so I can feel dread and happiness at the same time.
It seems to be very confusing.


It's because you are all, schizophrenic on some finite level and Mushrooms makes light of that by making you see true aspects and not make believe come through things and your perception.

Quote:
Also LSD comes in waves, where as mushrooms come in one large wave.


Almost exactly different then what usually happens to me.

Quote:
Now on mushrooms, you will seek out details in that painting, which turn into overlayed images, for example eyes/pyramids will start to form from the painting, but the painting itself will not come alive.


I think to feel it come alive under the stimulation of Psilocybin you have to stay in the moment in question but not question it and yet not vehemently prove or deny it.

Quote:
LSD also seems to focus not so much on details, but on the whole, like a large painting will come to life. The characters will move slightly, the scenery will look real and stretch outside of the painting.


And I think that to see the sterility of LSD you have to see the delirium and delusion of the pattern of cognition and time experienced on it. In fact I'll admit now that I think LSD is much more of a scary drug then any Mushroom... and it makes me more cynical of this whole Acid culture.

Quote:
This is my experience of these drugs.


Awesome, thanks for sharing man.

Edited by allisthesame (03/02/08 05:57 AM)

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: allisthesame]
    #8092856 -

Its strange, a few people experience the same trip that I get from mushrooms, on LSD, and vice versa.

I think its all to do with how your mind is hardwired, the set and setting.

LSD, for me, it's not as big a deal with set & setting as with psilocybin.

The actual trip of each of these drugs can be different every time, but with similar set & settings, similar themes are worked upon.

With LSD i also feel like there is a personality behind everything, sort of cloaked somehow by the trip.

With mushrooms I don't get that, everything is one and the same, right in my face. Its just that we sculpt the energy around us in to varyingly different forms, and the borders between these are destroyed on mushrooms.
LSD seems to accentuate these borders somewhat, but mold them into different forms all together, as if trying to convey that everything is different, but can be experienced completely differently with different perceptions.

It does seem to be that everything is one on LSD, but because we experience reality the way we do, it mixes up the themes, personalities, genres, philosophies, and quantum mechanics of each "thing".


--------------------
uarewotueat - "Libs are messy as hell, I don't know whether to take a shit or get a haircut when I'm on them!"

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: allisthesame]
    #8092926 -

allisthesame said:
......
Like Salvia, eh? Well, I wouldn't lump Salvia with anything else, cause not only does it have a completely radical layering effect with time but it has completely radical perspective shift too, not to mention the effects you could consider recreational (if at all anything importent in most cases) like the visions and tactile, olfactory(whatever) and taste senses. Same with LSD and Psilocybin and same with PROLLY any other entheogenIC substance... unfortunatly no Mescaline or DMT for me yet. Oh yeah and not to mention that when you see through the death and\or taming of your ego on LSD you see a very different effect on your over all perspective and perception then on anything else, including very much so underappreciated Mushroom.

Quote:
if it keeps shifting density from lesser and greater time stalling or layering, then you may have less confidence about the process. Mushroom is like that. but the effect is the same, just the staging and delivery or nuance is different.


Not everything is layers... it's not just the mechanism, it's also how you're brain is for one, functioning, and 2: realizing and 3: well, making you feel.

-|-|-|-|-|-_\-|-|-|-|-|-\\\()-|-|-|-|-|-_\-|-|-|-|-|-\\\()-|-|-|-|-|-_\-|-|-|-|-|-\\\()
turn this into a fractal expanding in all directions and fracturing radically into different ones with different faults and noticable perfections/imperfections you have ACID

------\_||||------\_||||()------\_||||------\_||||()------\_||||------\_||||()
Turn this into a perfect sine wave of a spiral undulating unto itself like if all it's composed of surrounds your perception and you've got Mushrooms

Although it's a very bad comparison...

I hope this post gets to you.


I think your response hs been very considered and I know it is weird trying to understand this business of frame layering as the constant between all psychedelics unless you are looking at the way brain makes memory by letting the cells that are reverberantly stimulated become the unit of momentary memory.
reverberant stimulation is the required feedback for memory formation.
psychedelic manages using one method or another (chemically) to extend the reverberant period of each stimulus.

It is smart to bring Salvia into this analysis, especially since the difference in character between the lsd and mushroom is in the variance of degree of layering.

Why i think it is smart is because salvia (to level 3 light visual) goes through the whole sequence of 2-layers up to 8 or 10-layers in a matter of 90 seconds and then coasts back down to about 4 or 5 layers within 10 minutes hitting baseline the next day or so (afterglow).

Acid (for entertainment purposes ~1 tab more or less) will also go to the same place in about 120 minutes or so and stay there more or less for 5 hours coasting to baseline of 2 or 3 layers in 12 hours.

comparing the scale of effects on these timelines gives you a way to see how the biophysical part of psychedelic is a simple and dependable thing, but can be staged differently and can seem to be very different things.

why they are different is because of shockingly different timelines in which the consciousness goes from ordinary to very reverberant and elasticaly buoyant among a multitude of more slowly passing moments - and then back again.

during 5 minutes it is very hard to come to grips with anything, but during 5 hours you can really get involved with things.

the layering effect is also natural in dreams and emotional states. so when we are overcome with the suddenness of the salvia change we can greatly increase the chemically induced layering by reacting.

I think this happens on acid too but only a little bit, unless the dose was taken in more than one 10 minute period - i.e. redosing during come up (which makes it more mushroom-ish).

I think this happens (emotionally induced additional frame stacking)on mushroom a few times as additional psychedelic enters the blood from digestion, all the way until it is eliminated. This gives a slower ramp for a shorter ride with a kind of maintenance trickle during come down, except with tea in which case it hits more like acid except a bit shorter overall.

of course add to all of that the flavors
and the environments and the expectations and beliefs etc. etc.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8093484 -

i think the LSD depends on the vibes it has following it


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: thedudenj]
    #8093506 -

I think redgreenvines is one smart dude.


--------------------
Bufotenine Yopo/Cebil Info | Guide to Hunting/Using Fly Agarics
Good Drug Books
PCPiHKAL|Rhodium

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Re: LSD and it's completely different nature [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8093692 -

blah blah blah, just going to back up what some people said

i agree with the themes thing, acid for me was like an adventure or story with a clear beginning middle and end each time. Mushrooms feels like its always at the middle of the story... never progresses and it doesn't have an introduction where i learn all the characters.

that being said mushrooms is far more fun for me. I don't think i've ever had a "fun" acid trip, It forces me through a process, which always seems to be spiritual or learning based, and the enjoyment i get from it is the enjoyment of growing and learning, but its definitely not without its pain.

for me mushrooms is just like "here you go, now you're high, go experience things and see what happens" I like the emotional nature of it, because it enhances normal situations into something new and different.

acid does the same thing, but by forcing me to observe minute details and calculate the theoretical ramifications of every single muscle twitch and word and interpretation

also on acid i feel like myself, i feel like i normally feel, just in a very strange and pressureful circumstance. All my emotions thoughts and feelings are the same ones i normally feel, only greatly magnified in my perception.

on mushrooms i actually feel like a different person, or rather like i'm the same person but looking at myself from a another (unknown) person's viewpoint. For me its more pleasurable to take a break from all the parts of myself i already know... it feels like a vacation while acid feels like an ordeal.

visually for me acid feels like my eyes just handed over all the keys to the kingdom to my brain. my eyes just decide to just let my brain see whatever it wants to see.
so if i was looking at a picture of a ship for instance, my brain says "hey yeah! i know what thats supposed to be, its a ship, its on water, water moves, wind moves the sails, birds fly around, ect" and then all that stuff happens. so its very detailed, but often completely based on whats going on in my head.

mushrooms the visuals often seem random to me and are made up almost entirely of abstract patterns.


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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