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a dead gnome

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 430
Last seen: 21 years, 7 months
"Natural" vs. "Synthetic" Drugs
    #823026 - 08/17/02 07:11 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

An interesting forum was created here discussing what "drugs" some people would never allow to enter their bodies. Many of the "drugs" listed I can agree with, yet some posts were insightful into some peoples biases.

Okay, so what?s the difference?

Psilocybe mushrooms are well documented to grow "naturally" in the wild. Once some scientist was able to isolate the psychoactives psilocin and/or psilocybin from these mushrooms. Another name for psilocin is 4-HO-DMT. Notice the acronym "DMT." 4-HO-DMT can be isolated in laboratory conditions; a compound isolated from a "naturally" growing fungus.

Ayahuasca brews have been made in the Southern regions of South America for thousands of years. Chemical analysis on the active ingredients of the brews found N,N-dimethyltriptamine (DMT) and and an monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOI?s). Now people all over the world are extracting N,N-dimethyltriptamine from many readily available sources into fine crystals that can be smoked.

There are many more examples of compounds that have had similar histories. Many are of course first found in nature, and then brought to the laboratory for further investigation/isolation.

Now we can shift attention on those compounds that have been created or "synthesized" by humans. Such compounds as 2C-B, 2C-T-7, LSD-25, DPT, 5-MeO-DIPT, 5-MeO-AMT, and the list continues on.

I find it troubling that some people are a bit "prejudice" about laboratory isolated compounds. And, I find it troubling that some are "prejudice" of laboratory synthesized compounds. Of course with the latter we need to be extremely careful with what we are doing; any other way would be simply careless. These "new" compounds may be the keys to new mental dimensions, much like how the "natural" compounds have been allowing humans to enter new mental dimensions for thousands of years.

My Goal
For this forum I would like people to contribute their thoughts on the polarity we often engage in with respects to "natural" and "synthetic" drugs. I hope to gain a consensus of what people think about this polarity. Your opinions are very welcome, and any stories you wish to share are also very welcome. I would also appreciate suggestions on modifying this forum if one sees a need to.

If you would like, please place a vote on this polarity in question. Perhaps it can shed some more light.

"Natural" vs. "Synthetic"
Yes. There is a difference between the two.
No. There is no difference between the two.

~~~peace and love

Votes accepted from (12/31/69 05:00 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll

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Mushroom Farmer

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 178
Last seen: 20 years, 10 months
Re: "Natural" vs. "Synthetic" Drugs [Re: Brukan]
    #823221 - 08/17/02 08:42 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

I agree with you on this post. Yes, there are dangerous synthetic drugs, but there are natural drugs that are dangerous as well. To me they?re all compounds just with different packages. You just have to know what ones not to use.
Good post Brukan!!


Remember, Every thing I say or write is not based on facts or reality

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Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 219
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
Re: "Natural" vs. "Synthetic" Drugs [Re: PoolShark]
    #823396 - 08/17/02 10:10 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Agreed. Refusing to take synthetic drugs is lame. I'm tired of hearing that.

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Pod King

Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 638
Loc: Pod Nightmare
Re: "Natural" vs. "Synthetic" Drugs [Re: MechanicalMan]
    #823611 - 08/17/02 12:30 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Marijuana is a plant naturally containing the chemical THC.
There is also synthetic THC, put into pill form (Marinol/Dronabinol)

Magic Mushrooms grow in the wild, but so do poisonous mushrooms and edible mushrooms. Peyote grows in the wild, but LSD is synthetic. They are all hallucinogens with no physical effects, and you have to take a lot to overdose.

Datura is a plant which naturally contains deleriants, anti-cholinergics (sp?) atropine, scopolomine, and hyoscyamine. There are also synthetic deleriants too, diphenhydramine (Benadryl), dimenhydrinate (Dramamine). So you would take datura, but not benadryl?

Chemicals are chemicals, whether they are man-made or natural.

You have to trust a person to make LSD correctly, but you also have to trust that a person picked the right kind of shrooms (if they didn't grow them, or if you didn't). If you did get an impure sample of LSD, it probably wouldn't be as dangerous as poisonous mushrooms.

"Hey daddy, president Bush tried marijuana, I think I will."

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Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: "Natural" vs. "Synthetic" Drugs [Re: Brukan]
    #823831 - 08/17/02 02:12 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

WEll the mushroom pictured above is panaeolus antillarum an non-psychoactive species of mushrooms.

Now if you have peyote which contains mescaline and other alkaloides there is basically no difference between the actual chemical whether extrated from peyote or manufatured in a laboratory. the molecule is the same, mescaline so there is no difference.

mj That is natural and the other is synthetic or it can be extracted it is stillthe same.

Still and overall this is a good post. thanks.


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off the deep end
Registered: 05/14/01
Posts: 93
Re: "Natural" vs. "Synthetic" Drugs [Re: Brukan]
    #824350 - 08/17/02 05:51 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

The difference is in the extra alkaloids that are in certain "natural" drugs as compared to "synthetic". Yes, synthetic mescaline will make you trip, but it will be a diferent trip from peyote due to all the other alkaloids. Same thing goes for marijuana and synthetic thc, and mush and synthetic psylocin etc etc.... Its the extra stuff that can make a drug feel different/ better/ worse.
As for people not using certain chemicals because they are "manmade" well, some people just put up walls in thier lives for strange reasons. Kinda like some bikers who only ride the brand name "Harley Davidson". Its more about the brand and not the feeling of riding a bike. or those little stickers on the trucks with a guy pissing on a Ford emblem/ Chevy emblem. Or how bout the rivalry between skiers and snowboarders. The list goes on and on. The biases people put on themselves are just a result of narrowmindedness. However there are those that have had experiences with certain drugs and choose not to use them anymore. But thats different from someone saying they wont use a drug because so and so said it would make thier brain bleed or damage thier chromasomes. I personally won't do meth ever again because having a racing heart for 30+ hours and not being able to sleep isn't fun for me. I only tried it twice but that was enough for me. I hear a lot of people around here talking about how evil mdma is. They didn't use it wisely and now they can't touch it anymore. I love the stuff but I only do it once or if I'm lucky twice a year. There is definately a price for feeling that good and I'm not talking 30 bucks.
For the people that won't use synthetics just because they are synthetic I say: tell that to the dentist or the doctor who needs to sedate you, and good luck with the operation.

Edited by doozer (08/17/02 06:33 PM)

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Shaman I am

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/11/02
Posts: 3,125
Loc: Falling into place
Re: "Natural" vs. "Synthetic" Drugs [Re: mjshroomer]
    #824829 - 08/18/02 02:19 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Good post Brukan

>Now if you have peyote which contains mescaline and other alkaloides there is basically no difference between the actual chemical whether extrated from peyote or manufatured in a laboratory. the molecule is the same, mescaline so there is no difference.

Good point, didn't Wasson take synthesised psilocybin to Maria Sabina? She tried it, and said it contained the 'spirit' of the mushroom.

Good luck


"We are the one's we have been waiting for" - Hopi saying

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Slow Learner

Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 578
Loc: New Zealand
Re: "Natural" vs. "Synthetic" Drugs [Re: Brukan]
    #824833 - 08/18/02 02:30 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

There's a difference in a pragmatic sense -- naturally occurring drugs usually have a much longer history of use and therefore a more reliable track record of safety (or lack of)...and not everyone can be a chemist, but anyone can be a gardener...

But I agree that people who make a distinction between, say, synthetic mescaline and extracted mescaline are misguided (are there really people who feel that way?). Not to mention the fact that any "synthetic" drug can only be so-called provisionally...DMT, diazepam and possibly even dirty old methamphetamine are examples that come to mind; all were believed to be synthetic until they were found in nature (bit of controversy about the meth tho...maybe someone forgot to wash up a beaker or something )...nature was after all the original synthesist...

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Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: "Natural" vs. "Synthetic" Drugs [Re: Pynchon]
    #824865 - 08/18/02 03:13 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Hy Pynchon,

I should mention that the chemical substance DMT was synthesized in a laboratory in the 1950's long before man found out that it occurs naturally on more than 400 plants.

It has also been found in 3 varieties of edible seaweed off odf the coast of Madagascar/

And again the molecule is the same.

in fat 95 percent of all DMT avaialble is sybntetic, created in a laboratory.

Yet many people smoke it and say it is natural wothout knowing that it was chemically made in a lab.



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Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: "Natural" vs. "Synthetic" Drugs [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #824872 - 08/18/02 03:27 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

No DreaMTrix,

It was actually Albert Hofmann who brought the 5 milligram tablets of Psilocine to Mar?a Sabina while he himself and his wife consume the leaves of Salvia during that velada.

Here below are Albert Hofmann's own words about his experience and the mushroom pills. On that particular ocassion this is what occurred.


After the fall of darkness, we all proceeded into the room in which the ceremony would take place. It was then locked up-that is, the door was obstructed with the only bed available. Only an emergency exit into the back garden remained unlatched for absolute necessity. It was nearly midnight when the ceremony began. Until that time the whole party lay, in darkness sleeping or awaiting the night's events, on the bast mats spread on the floor. Maria Sabina threw a piece of copal on the embers of a brazier from time to time, whereby the stuffy air in the crowded room became somewhat bearable. I had explained to the curandera through Herlinda, who was again with the party as interpreter, that one pill contained the spirit of two pairs of mushrooms. (The pills contained 5.0 mg synthetic psilocybin apiece.)

When all was ready, Maria Sabina apportioned the pills in pairs among the grown-ups present. After solemn smoking, she herself took two pairs (corresponding to 20 mg psilocybin). She gave the same dose to Don Aurelio and her daughter Apolonia, who would also serve as curandera. Aurora received one pair, as did Gordon, while my wife and Irmgard got only one pill each.

One of the children, a girl of about ten, under the guidance of Maria Sabina, had prepared for me the juice of five pairs of fresh leaves of hojas de la Pastora. I wanted to experience this drug that I had been unable to try in San Jose Tenango. The potion was said to be especially active when prepared by an innocent child. The cup with the expressed juice was likewise incensed and conjured by Maria Sabina and Don Aurelio, before it was delivered to me.

All of these preparations and the following ceremony progressed in much the same way as the consultation with the curandera Consuela Garcia in San Jose Tenango.

After the drug was apportioned and the candle on the "altar" was extinguished, we awaited the effects in the darkness.

Before a half hour had elapsed, the curandera murmured something; her daughter and Don Aurelio also became restless. Herlinda translated and explained to us what was wrong. Maria Sabina had said that the pills lacked the spirit of the mushrooms. I discussed the situation with Gordon, who lay beside me. For us it was clear that absorption of the active principle from the pills, which must first dissolve in the stomach, occurs more slowly than from the mushrooms, in which some of the active principle already becomes absorbed through the mucous membranes during chewing. But how could we give a scientific explanation under such conditions? Rather than try to explain, we decided to act. We distributed more pills. Both curanderas and the curandero each received another pair. They had now each taken a total dosage of 30 mg psilocybin.

After about another quarter of an hour, the spirit of the pills did begin to yield its effects, which lasted until the crack of dawn. The daughters, and Don Aurelio with his deep bass voice, fervently answered the prayers and singing of the curandera. Blissful, yearning moans of Apolonia and Aurora, between singing and prayer, gave the impression that the religious experience of the young women in the drug inebriation was combined with sensual-sexual feelings.

In the middle of the ceremony Maria Sabina asked for our request. Gordon inquired again after the health of his daughter and grandchild. He received the same good information as from the curandera Consuela. Mother and child were in fact well when he returned home to New York. Obviously, however, this still represents no proof of the prophetic abilities of both curanderas.

Evidently as an effect of the hojas, I found myself for some time in a state of mental sensitivity and intense experience, which, however, was not accompanied by hallucinations. Anita, Irmgard, and Gordon experienced a euphoric condition of inebriation that was influenced by tke strange, mystical atmosphere. My wife was impressed by the vision of very distinct strange line patterns.

She was astonished and perplexed, later, on discovering precisely the same images in the rich ornamentation over the altar in an old church near Puebla. That was on the return trip to Mexico City, when we visited churches from colonial times. These admirable churches offer great cultural and historical interest because the Indian artists and workmen who assisted in their construction smuggled in elements of Indian style. Klaus Thomas, in his book Die kunstlich gesteuerte Seele [The artificially steered mind] (Ferdinand Enke Verlag, Stuttgart, 1970), writes about the possible influence of visions from psilocybin inebriation on Meso-American Indian art: "Surely a culturalhistorical comparison of the old and new creations of Indian art . . . must convince the unbiased spectator of the harmony with the images, forms and colors of a psilocybin inebriation." The Mexican character of the visions seen in my first experience with dried Psilocybe mexicana mushrooms and the drawing of Li Gelpke after a psilocybin inebriation could also point to such an association.

As we took leave of Maria Sabina and her clan at the crack of dawn, the curandera said that the pills had the same power as the mushrooms, that there was no difference. This was a confirmation from the most competent authority, that the synthetic psilocybin is identical with the natural product. As a parting gift I let Maria Sabina have a vial of psilocybin pills. She radiantly explained to our interpreter Herlinda that she could now give consultations even in the season when no mushrooms grow.


AS an afterthought to Hofmann's gift to Maria Sabina, She never again was given any more tablets of psilocine.


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Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 4,475
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: "Natural" vs. "Synthetic" Drugs [Re: mjshroomer]
    #825106 - 08/18/02 07:31 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

there is a difference
an example is that when you ingest shrooms youve hunted you know what you take
when you take an X you dont
at least BG synthetics suck hard
Id do shrooms 10000 more times but LSD never
Ive just got a feeling that tells me Do Natural
Or its just cause I love Her

Cuba Libre

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Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: "Natural" vs. "Synthetic" Drugs [Re: T0aD]
    #825239 - 08/18/02 08:24 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Over the last thirty years I have had the pleasure of knowing who all of my x and MDA and 2-ct-7 and other chemicval compounds came from and they were given tome by the very people who manufactured them over the years.

As for the pills of x, the ISraelis make shit x. And the pills are not cool.

I have also had pharmaceutical vials of 1 gram mescaline in the past and others which I know what they were. However, not everyone out there has been as fortunate as I went it came to trying something new.

Still, I have not had but one bad trip ever in my life and that was stp. The reason for that is the doasage is 4 milligrams and the tablets they handed out to weeveryone in the Haight were 20 milligram tablet. Me and my first wife spent the night and half o a 2nd day at the Haight-Ashbury free clinic getting out minds repaired.


Oh Yes, one time I bought four doses of LSD on the street in the Haight and my wife and I went to see John Lennon's movie how I stoped the War and we never got off. I took then sent the remaining two to Pharm Chem Labs for analyzation and it turned out that they were birth control pills.

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