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OfflineFrank_Loyd_Wrong
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Mother Nature or Labratory?
    #1929001 - 09/18/03 02:59 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Just curious as to weather you guys perfer the mind altering substances that come from the ground or ones that are made in a lab.
The only lab related drug I've done is LSD. It was sure a fascinating time but I think I could live the rest of my life just fine with what is growing here on earth. To me shrooms have a better feeling of well being and complete bliss and one with nature. I also think they form a very special bond with people when you do them, lsd didn't really give me that feeling.
(also I'm not limiting this to lsd and shrooms. any natural and man made/altered drug)


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InvisibleHelp on the Way
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: Frank_Loyd_Wrong]
    #1929026 - 09/18/03 03:04 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I am one of the few who prefer the lab drugs
I love acid much much more than mushrooms
And i think Ecstasy is amazing (But i have kept it to once a year or less)
Although really natural vs unnatural doesnt make much a difference to me...i dont get any better feelings from something thats natural just because its natural..its all just chemicals in the end


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:shocked: *Divine Moments of Truth* :shocked:


"Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon

"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead

"Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter


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OfflineInfrared
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: Help on the Way]
    #1929096 - 09/18/03 03:26 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

yea i agree, either way your consuming chemicals.


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When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry:rainbowdrink:


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OfflineSummerBreeze
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: Infrared]
    #1929116 - 09/18/03 03:33 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

To put another tilt on the question what about synthetic drugs. Like factory produce mescalin for example. Its the same chemical build up as would be found in nature so is there a difference?


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"Must'nt Grumble!".


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OfflineFaaip_De_Oiad
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: SummerBreeze]
    #1929175 - 09/18/03 03:43 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

and where did those chemicals come from? outer space? I dont think so, they all came from stuff on the earth, so, a chemical is a chemical, but I don't really have enough experience to say anything about this :P


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: Faaip_De_Oiad]
    #1929207 - 09/18/03 03:50 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

> Just curious as to weather you guys perfer the mind altering substances that come from the ground or ones that are made in a lab.

They are all the same in my book. _Everything_ should be legal from drano to heroin.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlineevlovevlove
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: Faaip_De_Oiad]
    #1929227 - 09/18/03 03:53 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)



Edited by evlovevlove (09/18/03 03:55 PM)


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InvisibleLazerouth
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: evlovevlove]
    #1929289 - 09/18/03 04:09 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i prefer natural substances. i hated acid. mdma can be nice but its so rare to find it pure.

but yeah nature is just one big laboratory. does that make god a scientist?


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InvisibleXochitl
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: Lazerouth]
    #1929441 - 09/18/03 04:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I prefer plant-based entheogens personally, especially those that have been utilized for hundreds, if not thousands of years by shamanic cultures. I appreciate that generational connection.

Here are Terrence McKenna's thoughts on the matter:

High Times Interview April 1992

HT: How do you view the increasing waves of designer psychedelics and brain enhancement machines in the context of Rupert Sheldrake's theory of morphogenetic fields?

TM: Well I'm hopeful, but somewhat suspicious. I think drugs should come from the natural world, and be use-tested by shamanically-oriented cultures, then they have a very deep morphogenetic field, because they've been used for thousands and thousands of years in magical contexts. A drug produced in the laboratory, and suddenly distributed worldwide simply amplifies the global noise present in the historical crisis. And then there's the very practical consideration that one cannot predict the long term effects of a drug produced in a laboratory. Something like peyote, or morning glories, or mushrooms have been used for vast stretches of time without detrimental social consequences. We know that. As far as the technological question isu concerned -- brain machines and all -- I wish them luck. I'm willing to test anything that somebody will send me, but I'm skeptical. I think it's somehow like the speech-operated typewriter. It will recede ahead of us. The problems will be found to have been far more complex than first supposed.

HT: Don't you think it's true that the designer psychedelics and the brain machines don't have any morphogenetic field, so in a sense one is carving a new morphogenetic field with their use. Consequently, there would be more possibilities for new things to happen -- unlike the psychoactive substances which you speak of that have ancient morphogenetic fields, and are much more entrenched in predictability and pattern -- and therefore not as free for new types of expression?

TM: Possibly, although I don't know how you grab the morphogenetic field of a new designer drug. For instance, I'll speak of my own experience, which is ketamine. My impression of ketamine was -- it's like a brand new skyscraper, all the walls, all the floors are carpeted in white, all the drinking fountains work, the elevators run smoothly, the fluorescent lights recede endlessly in all directions down the hallways. It's just that there's nobody there. There's no office machinery, there's no hurrying secretaries, there's no telephones -- it's just this immense empty structure waiting. Well I can't move into a 60-story office building. I have only enought stuff to fill a few small rooms, so it gives me a slightly spooked-out feeling to enter into these empty morphogenetic fields. If you take mushrooms, you know, you're climbing on board a starship manned by every shaman who ever did it in front of you, and this is quite a crew, and they've really pulled some stunts over the millenia, and it's all there, the tapes, to be played, but the designer things should be very cautiously dealt with.


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As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: Xochitl]
    #1929456 - 09/18/03 05:00 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

The thing about human made drugs is that you never know everything that is in them. Some people have a horrible habit of mixing other chemicals in when cutting drugs. On the other hand, some plants of the same species can be more potent than others. But I'd still rather trust what God made than what man made.


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OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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OfflineLittleHippy
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: Funguy]
    #1929677 - 09/18/03 05:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I Recently Took acid. Until then i had only taken mushrooms as a trippy drug, and found them to be the best thing on the planet so calming and spiritual, they changed me into a better man. Unfortunately with the acid, I really hated it, it seemed too wild and random for me i also lost control of my trip. Ever since I've worried about taking mushrooms again what if i dont have my usual good trips what if its like the acid.

if anyone could help me out alittle could you please email me
neoz__@hotmail.com (its x2 _'s) thanks



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Ooo! look! a Tree! oh, and theres another one! and another!

Wow! theres a whole hurd of them! I've never seen so many trees!


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? *DELETED* [Re: LittleHippy]
    #1929758 - 09/18/03 06:25 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

Reason for deletion: x



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InvisibleXochitl
synchronicitycircuit
Registered: 07/15/03
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: poke smot!]
    #1929975 - 09/18/03 07:24 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

good points poke.

Another reason for my preference for the plant-based entheogens is autonomy. In order to synthesize many of the chemicals described in tikhal and pihkal, one will need a fairly fancy setup of glassware and precursors, not to mention a decent background in organic chemistry. While on the other hand, plants such as b. caapi or salvia divinorum only really need proper soil and lighting conditions. This allows self-reliance and a higher level of privacy than what is possible when you do a nearly-global search for precursors (especially important during this era of the Drug War). The reason why LSD is not so readily available anymore is because the resources and means to create and distribute the substance are in the hands of small amount of individuals whose numbers seem to dwindle as time passes.

I respect the synthetic, but I need "company" so to speak during the experience. McKenna addresses the issue in the interview above.

Many of the plant entheogens have a long and deep history, but similiarly, a few of the synthetics do as well. LSD and MDMA, in my opinion, are the tried and true and have my highest respect. It is just unfortunate that these substances can only be created by an underground and distant chemist rather than with a well-cared for garden.


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As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon


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OfflineHarvestTheBrain
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: Xochitl]
    #1930097 - 09/18/03 08:04 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i consume what the earth provides, yes, everything has chemicals in them, but i dont trust man enough to produce something has those kind of effects on my brain. It's all preference in the end.


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: Frank_Loyd_Wrong]
    #1931937 - 09/19/03 11:22 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i prefer Mother Nature. :smile: 


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Offlineevlovevlove
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: Xochitl]
    #1932022 - 09/19/03 12:10 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Xochitl said:
Another reason for my preference for the plant-based entheogens is autonomy. In order to synthesize many of the chemicals described in tikhal and pihkal, one will need a fairly fancy setup of glassware and precursors, not to mention a decent background in organic chemistry. While on the other hand, plants such as b. caapi or salvia divinorum only really need proper soil and lighting conditions. This allows self-reliance and a higher level of privacy than what is possible when you do a nearly-global search for precursors (especially important during this era of the Drug War)...




That is a very good point!!!

While I do not feel attached to the natural or "unnatural" distinction in terms of experience or philosophical implications, I do like the fact that you can grow the natural ones yourself. I like that a lot.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: evlovevlove]
    #1936263 - 09/20/03 09:20 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

No one can out do Mother Nature.
She has had alot more practice at it.  :wink:
Man made drugs are dangerous.


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineDasKomet
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: niteowl]
    #1936319 - 09/20/03 10:02 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I've always figured that the chemist was holding space for creation to work through... "Chemistry is applied theology"-TL
All technology is organic... we use nature as the basis for construction. Man works for chemicals as the wasp works for the flower. Chemists are just more Hu-man than human.


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The Woven World is all I see.
Put cloves in your weed and tell them its for the LSD.
.oO0 Listen to White Zombie 0Oo.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: DasKomet]
    #1938659 - 09/21/03 09:18 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Man makes drugs that are not found in nature. They are all made by "natural" processes. But you arent EVER going to find a bottle of whisky growing on ANY plant. Alcohol is found in nature but not in the proportions nor the potency that can be brewed up in a distillery. Man distorts what nature made. He tries to make it better, purer, stronger and usually doesnt do any better than Mother Nature.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Mother Nature or Labratory? [Re: niteowl]
    #4372401 - 07/05/05 03:49 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Mother nature takes fire and kills and creates volcanos and mountain which then feed millions of beings. Man takes fire and creates nuclear bombs which then kill millions and nothing will grow there ever again and the beings genetically mutate for millions of years.

Manmade dopes have waste and bad connotations and serious bad karma attached to them, like soul slavery to heroin and crack, which is one reason why they will never be as pure as mother nature.

In all of history there was no record of addiction to opium until the British produced it and pushed it on the Chinese. And then blam, karma blowback. Heroin. Throughout the West. Thanks GB.

Natures plants have balancing counter chems. Imagine the amazing nook of intelligence for sentient matter to develop DMT and a MAOI right alongside each other in the forest.

Without the presence of the Mother as a guiding hand humankind would never have figured this out for themselves.

And weed. That should be the final word altogether. Man will never create something like weed.

That said, some man made chems are very valuable for the specifically human niche problems and it's entirely possible that some chems will address more specific roles. I am all for ibuprofen and the antiacid drugs. They suit me fine. But do I want to trust my mind to people who have to experiment on it to figure it out? No, I want my being to be suffused by nature, not someone's flight of fancy.

Ever had inspiring conversations with people on Prozac, Paxil, Halcion, Xanax, Lithium, Thorazine?


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...or something







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