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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Why fear having your ideas examined?
    #7872381 -

If they have merit, no amount of scrutiny or counterpoint will undermine them.

If they have no merit, they will be easily deconstructed and then they can be discarded in favor of ideas with more substance.


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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7872388 -

That's exactally right, lots of people refuse to even examine objectively them in their own minds let alone let others check their worth.


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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. - marianne williamson

What I do nobody notices... Till it stops - Garry Talent on the Bass.

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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7872699 -

Being a zealot can go both ways and are both based in fear.


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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7872950 -

For me personally, I'm often afraid to express my ideas because I have a false sense of self tied up in them, and I am afraid that judgment of my ideas = judgment of my self. This premise is flawed and I am working on developing better concepts and discarding premises which are egocentric.


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: Lion]
    #7873221 -

Right on Lion, it's awesome that you've been able to identify and face up to that! :thumbup:

Criticism of an idea does not equal criticism of the idea holder as a person. Hell, half my family are JW's and I still love them. Thier bad ideas do not detract from thier kindness, sincerity and honesty. Any reasonable person is willing to accept that great people can have weak/poor ideas. One is not a reflecton of the other.

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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7873558 -

Dems iz sum gud replize!


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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7873628 -

No idea can escape Pyrrhonian skepticism, not logic, or math, nor even observation sentences like "red here now!" It is impossible to 'prove' anything in the strongest sense of the word, so the choice to call a statement true always involves some guess work.

Some, like Pyrrho, try to believe nothing at all in order to avoid being duped into believing something false, but this exercise in radical intellectual honesty is soon scuttled by the pragmatic need to believe things like where the toilet is.

For others, the chance to be right about big important beliefs, is more important than the chance of being duped into false belief. They make a decision to stop questioning certain things, call them either true or false, and get on with life. Basic beliefs like the reliability of the senses, trust in logics, or trust in a loving God form the anchor points for a persons web of belief.

Nobody likes to question their anchor beliefs, because a person's entire mode of life depends on them. Loose too many anchors, and the entire web of belief collapses in on itself, leading one back into a state of Pyrrhonian skepticism, which is untenable. The believer is aware that some of his anchors might be sunk into rotten wood or brittle shale, but a handful of possibly good anchors is better than no anchor at all.


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come together

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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #7874197 -

This is easy:

You have opinions. It took you some time to form them, and they make you happy. Further research is not a priority, because you know you already like those opinions, so why challenge them?

It's complacency and arrogance.


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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #7874320 -

There are more reasons than complacency and arrogance for leaving a belief unchallenged. An accountant would be foolish to question his belief that zero is a real number.

edit

Or that 1/(1/2) = 2

Edited by AnastomosisJihad (01/13/08 05:13 PM)

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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7874511 -

Theres a difference between having your idea's examined and a constant bitter attack of idea's.

I don't think anyone here fears having there idea's examined. What they dislike is people persistently telling them they are wrong instead of engaging in a progressive philosophical discussion.

Philosophy is not a hate campaign. Its a discussion of ideas.

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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: Ego Death]
    #7875054 -

Incorrect.
Philosophy is "the love of knowledge" and it is intrinsically related to making use or reason and logic.
That being said, if the ideas presented have logical inadequacies, the other is free to point them out. This is imperative to happen if one's pursue is to make the conversation fruitful and meaningful.

Also I would like to point out to you that it's incorrect to say "your idea's" "there idea's".


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:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7875080 -

Actually, philosophy is "the love of wisdom." Might seem like a nitpick but I think it's clear that knowledge and wisdom are two different things.
The two root words are "philo" meaning love and "sophia" meaning wisdom. If I didn't point this out, I would make a bad philosophy major :yesnod:


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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7875127 -

Quote:
wis·dom (wĭz'dəm) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. The ability to discern or judge what is true, right, or lasting; insight.
2. Common sense; good judgment: "It is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things" (Henry David Thoreau).
3.
1. The sum of learning through the ages; knowledge: "In those homely sayings was couched the collective wisdom of generations" (Maya Angelou).
2. Wise teachings of the ancient sages.



--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7875158 -

That is indeed the definition of wisdom :tongue:

Just sharing a little knowledge as to the real meaning of the word philosophy.


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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7875182 -

I perfectly understood and I appreciate that. :smile:
The reason why I gave the definition of wisdom is because I wanted to keep things clear for everybody regarding the meaning of this word. :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7875197 -

Ah, I see :strokebeard:


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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: Lion]
    #7875941 -

Lion said:
For me personally, I'm often afraid to express my ideas because I have a false sense of self tied up in them, and I am afraid that judgment of my ideas = judgment of my self. This premise is flawed and I am working on developing better concepts and discarding premises which are egocentric.


The same not only goes for my views and opinions, but also my experiences...

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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7877204 -

Quote:
Incorrect.
Philosophy is "the love of knowledge" and it is intrinsically related to making use or reason and logic.


Of course,
I was talking about philosophy in the context we have here. Here we share and debate our "wisdom". If we didn't not talk here then there would be no wisdom to love.

Obviously I didn't make that clear enough for you.

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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7880521 -

Sometimes it just isn't easy to express ideas. Especially ideas about the "big" questions in life.

Also some of (my beliefs at least) the beliefs a person has are due to experiences in their lives that maybe the person they are having the discussion with has never experienced.

It can make a difference. It would be like explaining algebra to a first grader. There's a few things that need to be learned before it would make sense. So how fruitful would that conversation be?

I swear I am not implying anyone here is less than intelligent. THat's the best analogy I could come up with.


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Edited by mushbaby (01/14/08 09:20 PM)

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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: mushbaby]
    #7881324 -

Right on mushbaby, I think the major difference between materialists and mystics is simply what we have experienced, which only we ourselves can examine.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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