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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: Middleman]
    #7882530 - 01/15/08 10:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Or how you have interpreted your experiences. From the conversations I have had with both "materialists" and "mystics," I have gathered that their experiences were actually quite similar. What varies appears to be the meaning or explanation they assign to their experiences, as well as the level of critical thinking applied to understanding and integrating what they interpret.

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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: Veritas]
    #7882814 - 01/15/08 11:15 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think that 'materialists' and 'mystics' should open up and find the similarities between the ideas, like you are saying! I think the more balance we have between the two, we'd of more understanding of it all. Do you consider your experiences real? If so, you can't prove them, but that doesn't make them not real does it? That's the problem with expressing your ideas and having them examined, because not everyone has had the same experience. But I think experience is just as real and what we see as 'reality'.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: Love Cap]
    #7882897 - 01/15/08 11:25 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Well, the only reason that having your interpretations of your experiences examined would be a problem is if you are certain that your interpretation is representative of factual reality.  :shrug:

If one is able to say "I definitely experienced something, but I'm not certain of the factual nature of this event.  My BEST GUESS is __________," then there would be no need to take offense at the challenges of others to one's best guess.

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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: Veritas]
    #7883009 - 01/15/08 11:45 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

No shit, but does anyone else in here think that those out of body experiences are just as real and this reality?!

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: Love Cap]
    #7883037 - 01/15/08 11:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, some people probably do think so. What I am proposing is that an insistence that they KNOW so is counterproductive to discussion. There is nothing to fear from examination of one's ideas. The philosophical challenges offered by others cannot harm you, and engaging in an active discussion might even aid you in refining your interpretation of your experiences.

The aspects of reality which can be repeatably verified can be tentatively called "real." Everything else is "best guess."

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Invisiblemushbaby
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: Veritas]
    #7887394 - 01/16/08 06:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Or how you have interpreted your experiences. From the conversations I have had with both "materialists" and "mystics," I have gathered that their experiences were actually quite similar. What varies appears to be the meaning or explanation they assign to their experiences, as well as the level of critical thinking applied to understanding and integrating what they interpret.




I can agree with this. Maybe this is why we should allow people to walk their own path. I feel we are here to learn something. I believe there is a bigger picture. So of course people at different levels can go through the same exact experience and get something different out of it.

While I don't object to people asking questions and do my best to answer I don't think anyone can deny that sometimes in this forum the Q&A can feel a little like gang rape.

When there are 5 people doggedly attacking the ideas of 1 person it can feel a little overwhelming. Sometimes a person is ready to face it and sometimes they aren't.


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Offlinedruglord
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7887499 - 01/16/08 07:52 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

...because even if they have merit, they are inevitably simplifications that will prove inadequate to the enlightened mind.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: mushbaby]
    #7887659 - 01/16/08 09:33 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sometimes a person is ready to face it and sometimes they aren't.





This is why we have TWO forums which cover the same subjects. If someone is truly not ready to face the experience of rigorous debate, they can post the same ideas/experiences/interpretations in M&P.

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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7887675 - 01/16/08 09:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The question is, why fear having your ideas garnered from experiences examined and scrutinized if they are nothing more then an arrangement and grouping of neurons that may or may not follow a mathmatical equation.

It's like having an emotinal attachment to a grain of sand! Sand exists and the Atoms that compose your neurology (and sand) exists. Why have attachments to Atoms? They create everything else! It is like having an emotinal attachment to an emotional attachment. Could you detach yourself from the neurological arrangment that attaches you to certain things? But wouldn't that idea come from an idea, thus coninuing the loop of a near limitless possiblity of infinitley connecting neuropathways?

The most important neurological arrangements I would like to identify would be that of: Prasing what I have to say, Mocking what I have to say.

Wouldn't that be cool? Conversation merely just evolves into literal representations of the neurons, putting all your feelings, thoughts, and experiences on display, to be objectivly scrutinized?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: Veritas]
    #7887684 - 01/16/08 09:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I can handle rigorous debate, but not this: :razz:


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7887693 - 01/16/08 09:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

What do you mean? Didn't mean to offend, if I did!

There is only a few emoticons which I am sure of there context within this site:blush:


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Invisiblemushbaby
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: Veritas]
    #7887864 - 01/16/08 11:08 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

Sometimes a person is ready to face it and sometimes they aren't.





This is why we have TWO forums which cover the same subjects. If someone is truly not ready to face the experience of rigorous debate, they can post the same ideas/experiences/interpretations in M&P.




You are right. I post in both.


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Invisiblemushbaby
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7887871 - 01/16/08 11:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I can handle rigorous debate, but not this: :razz:




Too funny.  I don't think I've used it solely as a response to someone in this forum, but I actually love that one.

(might be the tongue)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: mushbaby]
    #7888050 - 01/16/08 12:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

You are right. I post in both.




I long suspected you went both ways. :yesnod:


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Invisiblemushbaby
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7888074 - 01/16/08 12:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:biggrin:

Aw but I'm very selective.


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Offlinecrumblebum
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Registered: 04/24/07
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: mushbaby]
    #7888130 - 01/16/08 12:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

People don't like to have their ideas examined because they build their lives on those ideas, and they build their identities on those ideas. Once you get too far invested into an idea, you can't really change your mind on it without a slurry of negative effects.

It would seem ultimately rational to change your mind about something when new or better information is arrived at, but this isn't really how any public person can operate. Philosophers (the paid ones who write books) rarely, if ever, change their minds about something, because it then invalidates their previous writings. No one wants a politician who changes his mind, as anyone who's heard the context around the words "Waffling" and "Flip-Flopping" over the last decade or so.

If you give any stock to Jungian psychology or personality types, I think this relates the the Percieving/Judging function, and which is stronger within a person. P personality types make good thinkers and experimenters, but suck at sitting down and actually making a choice or a qualitative judgement. J types can make decisions and stick to them, which is handy in a number of arenas, but have difficulty seeing viewpoints outside the one they've settled on.


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Invisiblemushbaby
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: crumblebum]
    #7888150 - 01/16/08 12:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

But part of life is growing and maturing. No one is right all the time.

And I think you can change your mind without too many problems.

Guess you can tell I am a perceiver.


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: mushbaby]
    #7888260 - 01/16/08 01:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I agree mushbaby, I think I'm a perceiver too... one thing, it's a lot easier to be persuaded or have your mind changed when the person makes their points clearly and respectively, if not, they're hard to listen to.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: Love Cap]
    #7888280 - 01/16/08 01:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

'Respectively' as in precisely the order given? What does that mean?


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: Why fear having your ideas examined? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7888285 - 01/16/08 01:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

pretty much like 'i see what you're sayin, but what about this...' instead of just being a bitch about it trying to make you sound dumb or something! you know what i mean? I can respect one's opinions more if they seem respectable!

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