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Dunno, but you're blind hatred of the symbol is the same as the blind hatred of the Jews by the nazis.

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The american flag can be seen as an insult to natives, and the star of david can be seen as an insult to Palestinans, no one seems to care about that.

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People are free to express their opinions no matter how much it bothers others.

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Wiccan_Seeker said:

The time is not ripe. I live in Holland. For us the war started with one of our major cities (Rotterdam, to our nation then more important than New York City is to the USA) being leveled by the Luftwaffe. Then we were occupied for years, and on a population of a few million, well over a hundred thousand people were deported and killed in the concentration camps. Our workers were deported to Germany to be used as slave labor for the war industry. Now, over 60 years on, swastikas are still very much frowned upon and near-universally associated with Nazism.

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I'm curious if you have any Indian immigrants in your country. I think they might have a different perspective on the swastika.

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Of course, on both counts

But, to drive it into extremes, it matters whether you see an Indian guy wearing a gold ring with a swastika symbol, or a white guy with a swastika on his shirt.

Of course! It shouldn't matter! But on the reality level, with people being people, it does matter. The Indian guy's discrete swastika, and his appearance, won't as readily be associated with Nazism like the white guy with the t shirt will.

Look at the picture posted some posts up. The guy with the shirt elicits a WTF response in the western world. There's a good chance he's not a Nazi, so WTF. Had he been a white guy however, you'd immediately suspect the guy of having Nazi sympathies. OMG! Thats racist! Yes it is, but it is how the world works.

A shirt like his (the Swastika in Nazi configuration) would in fact be illegal to wear on the streets of Holland. We in Holland have great freedoms, like buying weed in coffeeshops and the right to die a dignified death, but we set clear limits on when those freedoms start to infringe on the well-being of others.

In the ideal world the Swastika would be seen as a spiritual symbol, like it has been for millennia. But we don't live in an ideal world, Hitler saw to that, and it will take at least another sixty or so years before the wounds can be reasonably healed by the passing of time.

dshroom said:

of course it should not be "brought back". it has become and remains a potent symbol of evil and needs to remain as such so that people never forget what it stands for: The systematic genocide of gypsys, catholics, russians, poles, homosexuals and jews. does anyone here stand for that? gosh i hope not.

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It is a much more ancient symbol than that, and its original meaning is much too sacred to forever relegate it to such a repulsive status.

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dshroom said:

what is its sacred meaning?

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In Hinduism, the two symbols represent the two forms of the creator god Brahma: facing right it represents the evolution of the universe (Pravritti), facing left it represents the involution of the universe (Nivritti). It is also seen as pointing in all four directions (north, east, south and west) and thus signifies stability and groundedness. Its use as a sun symbol can first be seen in its representation of the god Surya. The swastika is considered extremely holy and auspicious by all Hindus, and is regularly used to decorate items related to Hindu culture. It is used in all Hindu yantras and religious designs. Throughout the subcontinent of India, it can be seen on the sides of temples, religious scriptures, gift items, and letterheads. The Hindu god Ganesh is often shown sitting on a lotus flower on a bed of swastikas.

The swastika is found all over Hindu temples, signs, altars, pictures and iconography where it is sacred. It is used in Hindu weddings, festivals, ceremonies, houses and doorways, clothing and jewelry, motor transport and even decorations on food items such as cakes and pastries. Among the Hindus of Bengal, it is common to see the name "swastika" (Bengali: স্বস09;তিক sbastik) applied to a slightly different symbol, which has the same significance as the common swastika, and both symbols are used as auspicious signs. This symbol looks something like a stick figure of a human being. "Swastika" (স্বস509;তিক Sbastik) is a common given name amongst Bengalis and a prominent literary magazine in Kolkata (Calcutta) is called the Swastika.

The Aum symbol is also sacred in Hinduism. While Aum is representative of a single primordial tone of creation, the Swastika is a pure geometrical mark and has no syllabic tone associated with it. The Swastika is one of the 108 symbols of Lord Vishnu and represents the sun's rays, without which there would be no life.

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The symbol as it is used in Buddhist art and scripture is known in Japanese as a manji (literally, "the character for eternality" 萬字), and represents Dharma, universal harmony, and the balance of opposites. When facing left, it is the omote (front) manji, representing love and mercy. Facing right, it represents strength and intelligence, and is called the ura (rear) manji. Balanced manji are often found at the beginning and end of Buddhist scriptures (outside India).
On maps in the Taipei subway system a swastika is employed to indicate a temple, next to a cross indicating a Christian church.
On maps in the Taipei subway system a swastika is employed to indicate a temple, next to a cross indicating a Christian church.

Buddhism originated in the Indian subcontinent in the 5th century BC and inherited the manji. These two symbols are included, at least since the Liao Dynasty, as part of the Chinese language, the symbolic sign for the character 萬 or 万 (wàn in Chinese, man in Korean/Japanese, vạn in Vietnamese) meaning "all" or "eternality" (lit. myriad) and as 卐, which is seldom used. A manji marks the beginning of many Buddhist scriptures. The manji (in either orientation) appears on the chest of some statues of Gautama Buddha and is often incised on the soles of the feet of the Buddha in statuary. Because of the association with the right-facing swastika associated with Nazism, Buddhist manji (outside India only) after the mid-20th century are almost universally left-facing: 卍. This form of the manji is often found on Chinese food packaging to signify that the product is vegetarian and can be consumed by strict Buddhists. It is often sewn into the collars of Chinese children's clothing to protect them from evil spirits.

In 1922, the Chinese Syncretist movement Daoyuan founded the philanthropic association Red Swastika Society in imitation of the Red Cross. The association was very active in China during the 1920s and the 1930s.

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Jainism gives even more prominence to the swastika than does Hinduism. It is a symbol of the seventh Jina (Saint), the Tirthankara Suparsva. In the Svetambar Jain tradition, it is also one of the symbols of the ashta-mangalas. It is considered to be one of the 24 auspicious marks and the emblem of the seventh arhat of the present age. All Jain temples and holy books must contain the swastika and ceremonies typically begin and end with creating a swastika mark several times with rice around the altar.

Jains use rice to make a swastika (also known as "Sathiyo" in the state of Gujarat, India) in front of idols in a temple. Jains then put an offering on this swastika, usually a ripe or dried fruit, a sweet (mithai), or a coin or currency note. In 2001, India issued a 100-rupee coin to commemorate the 2600th anniversary of the birth of Mahavir, the 24th and last Jainist Tirthankara; the design includes a swastika.

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Wiccan_Seeker said:

This is emphasized too much in recent times, and theres a large group of people, especially on the Internet, who use this as an excuse to look for stuff that offends the most and then bash people over the head with it whom they know will take offense. Freedom of speech wasn't intended to entertain the antisocial, it was intended so people could voice their sincere beliefs. When freedom of speech eventually will be gagged, which is a loss, it will be done to limit the damage done by the abusers of free speech who are in it for their personal offending game, not because of people who voice their sincere beliefs.

People can have the most extremist views, yet be civil about it. There's a difference between voicing your opinion, and setting out on a campaign to offend people. Lately there's less and less of the former and more and more of the latter.

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