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Compass
Ancient Light

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Taking back the swastika
#7680470 - 11/26/07 02:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Wondering what people here think about a movement to bring back the swastika as an honorable symbol in Western culture.
Besides the cross, it offers an interesting and powerful design, simply and symmetrically.
The Nazi's use of the symbol has stereotypically been the tilted, right-facing black swatika on a white/red background.
Not being anti-semitic at all, but the Jewish community is often quick to attack the uses of the symbol and call being critical of Israel possibly anti-semitic.
Now obviously Jews, in general, have a much more powerful conception of the meaning of the swastika, whereas other groups would not be as offended and some even use it in their religion.
So is it inconsiderate to display the swastika, given that it is far removed from the Nazi symbol by using opposite orientation and different colors? Surely at first glance, the resemblance of the symbol to the Nazi one, would be a reminder to atrocities that we are very familiar with for some people and especially Jews. But anyone with half a brain and a knowledge of history would discern its use here to be benign.
So is it rude to bring these memories to people, even though it's not the intention? Or is it a noble and controversial use of free spreech?
Also, being super white doesn't help. What are the chances of someone reacting violently?
It's nearly impossible to find items adorned with the Swastika these days that don't either deal with racism or anti-racism.
-------------------- nystagmus dopamine guru inverted pop culture love scars of sorrow fleshy synesthesia hippie farts perpetual tinnitus Reclaim the Swastika!
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kake
The answer to1984 is 1776.




Registered: 05/06/99
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7680471 - 11/26/07 02:31 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Is the symbol that important? I mean really... cant you just use another symbol? "Bringing it back" wreaks of unnecessary instigation.
-------------------- The answer to 1984 is 1776.
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7680484 - 11/26/07 02:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's all over the place in India. In Japan and Korea it's only used in the opposite direction as the Nazi symbol but it's still all over temples and stuff. In India it's just like it was always our symbol. It is and always was a Buddhist symbol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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Compass
Ancient Light

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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: kake]
#7680487 - 11/26/07 02:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sure there are other great symbols: the peace symbol, the pentagram, the taijitsu, the sun cross, the omkar.
But, besides the cross, none are as easy to depict/draw. And they don't carry the meaning they do in Hinduism and Buddhism.
In a broader sense, it is because it represents the Past oppressing the Now, that it might hint of new thought and change. Or a reconnecting to the ancient past because of its great history.
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elcharrosays
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7680532 - 11/26/07 03:45 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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The christian cross used to be something a little nicer too but I sure as hell don't want that back after what they've done with it.
Besides, wouldn't this make the skinheads go ape shit?
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MOTH
Wild Woman


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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7680557 - 11/26/07 04:18 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I totally agree. Let's take it back.
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: MOTH]
#7680562 - 11/26/07 04:25 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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yeah, why should anti semites own the symbol...didn't it mean peace?
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.



Registered: 12/08/02
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thats weird, i had this idea 2 days ago also.
on further reflection i'm going to have to agree though, unneccassary instigation.
its not like its a circle or something i care about.
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igwna
The Cap'n


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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: truekimbo2]
#7680585 - 11/26/07 04:36 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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it'd be lovely to have it back and debase anything it meant to the nazi's.. like spitting in their face.. however i don't see it as something that will happen...
but hell, i'd certainly support such a thing if it came into effect. i'd much rather it as a sign of honor than hatred.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7680609 - 11/26/07 04:57 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
the taijitsu
What's that?
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: truekimbo2]
#7680619 - 11/26/07 05:12 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
truekimbo2 said: thats weird, i had this idea 2 days ago also.
on further reflection i'm going to have to agree though, unneccassary instigation.
its not like its a circle or something i care about.
unnecessary instigation, what a bullshit phrase for this topic.
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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UnholyChild666
I'M GOD


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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7680697 - 11/26/07 06:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'd like the same to happen with being a skinhead, there are people that are clueless that the Jamaicans started the whole skinhead groups in Britain with ska. This is why people need to turn off their TV, fucking networks would rather do a segment on neo-nazis than they would about the original skinheads.
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EllisDSox
King Hella!

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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7680730 - 11/26/07 06:57 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Swastikas don't have any negative connotations for me, unless it's the Nazi version- black with a white circle and red all around it. Looks seriously menacing. A version with dots around it, in a more benign colour, just looks like an ancient Hindu and Buddhist symbol, to me, though I know very little about the origins of the Swastika.
Don't let a group of angry, scared, violent little boys with big guns from the past ruin a holy symbol.
-------------------- Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.
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CosmicFool
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7680761 - 11/26/07 07:16 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Compass said: the taijitsu, the sun cross, the omkar.
I don't think I'm familiar w/ any of these
I was thinking about this topic the other day as well. Really though most people just don't know anything about it and simply associate it w/ the nazis and it kind of sad.
I don't see it coming back as long as people still use it as a sign of hate and/or ignorant of it's roots like the postage stamp mustache.
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kidaihuan
First Growery Ban



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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: CosmicFool]
#7680860 - 11/26/07 08:12 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah... I see it a lot here in China.
Often on the windows of buildings, on a in the temples, etc.
I even saw one right beside a marijuana leaf in a temple. Took a picture, but I can't find it right now (because I'm too lazy to get the camera out).
It's actually backwards, though, I mean, the Nazi Swastika is the mirror image of the Buddhist one.
But more importantly, we need to take back Porch Monkey.
 Sign the Petition Today!
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Clean
the lense


Registered: 05/11/03
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7681273 - 11/26/07 10:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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in my eyes it is a beautiful symbol. if you are still bothered by residual nazi programming it helps to flip it so the top arm points left
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7681348 - 11/26/07 10:58 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
So is it rude to bring these memories to people, even though it's not the intention?
I would say it is insensitive.
Quote:
Or is it a noble and controversial use of free spreech?
No, it is not noble.
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Compass
Ancient Light

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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: EllisDSox]
#7682169 - 11/26/07 03:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm finding quite a large network of people for this cause online.
Read more about ManWoman, who covered his body with swastika tatoos (interview) - http://dreamflesh.com/interviews/manwoman/
Website "Reclaim the Swastika" - http://reclaimtheswastika.com/
A little article - http://www.manwoman.net/article1.html
The Swastika Declaration of Independence (by the Friends of the Swastika) - http://www.manwoman.net/swastika/fots3.html
-------------------- nystagmus dopamine guru inverted pop culture love scars of sorrow fleshy synesthesia hippie farts perpetual tinnitus Reclaim the Swastika!
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7682685 - 11/26/07 05:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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You have to recognize that you can not take back this image for a long, long, long time. It can be taken back way after you're dead, dude. Seriously, forget it. I know it's a cool looking symbol but you're not going to reverse the meaning that it has for most people. Unless you become more famous than Hitler.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday
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Minstrel
Man of Science


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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Learyfan] 1
#7682869 - 11/26/07 06:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learyfan said: You have to recognize that you can not take back this image for a long, long, long time. It can be taken back way after you're dead, dude. Seriously, forget it. I know it's a cool looking symbol but you're not going to reverse the meaning that it has for most people. Unless you become more famous than Hitler.
I will become more famous than Hitler, and I will bring back the Swastika.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Minstrel]
#7682887 - 11/26/07 06:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Good luck bro.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday
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Compass
Ancient Light

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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Learyfan]
#7683078 - 11/26/07 07:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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kake
The answer to1984 is 1776.




Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 2,782
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7688342 - 11/27/07 09:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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well while we're at it...
can we take back the rainbow from the gays?
i mean seriously... come on... rainbows were cool. they shouldnt represent butt secks??
-------------------- The answer to 1984 is 1776.
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Tangerines




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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: kake]
#7688345 - 11/27/07 09:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I want to take back the 'hitler mustache' as well.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: kake]
#7688348 - 11/27/07 09:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
kake said: can we take back the rainbow from the gays?
Meanwhile, can we also take back the word "gay"? It used to mean happy.
Quote:
Tangerines said: I want to take back the 'hitler mustache' as well.
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Tangerines




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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Silversoul]
#7688369 - 11/27/07 09:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Fred Flintsone was always having a 'gay old time' and now kids hear that and are like 'OMG fred and barney are totally homosexuals with each other!!!!!'
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DirtMcgirt
in a pinch



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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Tangerines]
#7688376 - 11/27/07 09:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't think that has to do with the theme song
-------------------- "And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."
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Conservationist
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Minstrel]
#7689380 - 11/28/07 07:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's an ancient symbol of power and beauty. We should take it back from those idiot anti-racists.
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Adom
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BrandNoob
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7689658 - 11/28/07 09:36 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is something I've been thinking about a lot for the past several years, and again the past several months. Yes it should be taken back for religious and non-racist uses, and small steps and a lot of persecution is how we're gonna get there.
Did you ever see how the Raelians had to change their logo which was a unicursal Star of David/Swastika hybrid? It was awesome - even if they are nutty like a fruitcake. Now they've got the hexagram with a swirl in the middle. It's not nearly as cool looking.
-------------------- All posts were channeled through the user by typing the thoughts of telepathic beings. All photos are of paranormal origin and do not represent the physical world, as we know it. BrandNoob shall not be held accountable for the actions of deceased or hyperdimensional individuals.
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: BrandNoob]
#7737694 - 12/09/07 06:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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people will always speak their opinions, people shall use whatever symbols they fell they must. As long as they can reason use of such symbol
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: EllisDSox]
#7738275 - 12/09/07 08:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
EllisDSox said: Swastikas don't have any negative connotations for me, unless it's the Nazi version- black with a white circle and red all around it. Looks seriously menacing. A version with dots around it, in a more benign colour, just looks like an ancient Hindu and Buddhist symbol, to me, though I know very little about the origins of the Swastika.
Don't let a group of angry, scared, violent little boys with big guns from the past ruin a holy symbol.
I feel the same. I use this as a spiritual symbol (although, in private practice) so the issue IS important to me.
The nazis and skinheads STOLE a legitimate religious symbol and used it to represent their hatred. Fuck them.
People have been serious fuckwads to each other under the sign of the cross, but I view that as a symbol of a religion that does teach love, as opposed to most of its hypocrite followers.
Fuck it. I won't let anyone's bullshit opinion, based in ignorance, keep me from using the symbols I choose to use.
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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CidneyIndole
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: BrandNoob]
#7738286 - 12/09/07 08:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
BrandNoob said: This is something I've been thinking about a lot for the past several years, and again the past several months. Yes it should be taken back for religious and non-racist uses, and small steps and a lot of persecution is how we're gonna get there.
Did you ever see how the Raelians had to change their logo which was a unicursal Star of David/Swastika hybrid? It was awesome - even if they are nutty like a fruitcake. Now they've got the hexagram with a swirl in the middle. It's not nearly as cool looking.
Oh...haha... and I know a girl who has that second symbol tattooed on her back. NO, she's not a Raelien. It's just a really fucking cool symbol. Actually, she's a member here.
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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BrandNoob
The REALAmerican Hero!



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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: CidneyIndole]
#7738760 - 12/09/07 10:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Looking at them today, I see that the star of david is the Earth (two points at the poles, four points at the tropic lines) and the swirl and swastika both symbolize the sun.
This is an image of a hollow earth surrounding (and intertwined with) an internal sun. It is also a nucleus surrounded by protons.
It's an extremely positively charged image in my mind in both forms. Our minds are the place that these symbols have the most power, of course.
-------------------- All posts were channeled through the user by typing the thoughts of telepathic beings. All photos are of paranormal origin and do not represent the physical world, as we know it. BrandNoob shall not be held accountable for the actions of deceased or hyperdimensional individuals.
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Asante
Mage


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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7739456 - 12/10/07 06:58 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Whats this talk of "taking back" the Swastika from people who have no history with the symbol, and probably themselves got to know it as a Nazi symbol in the first place?
Quote:
So is it rude to bring these memories to people, even though it's not the intention?
You're a white guy in western culture and want to display a symbol that almost everyone in western culture associates with a world war, attempted genocide on several groups of people, and you're wondering if its rude to offend people with it. Your reason: it looks pretty.
I think it looks good to you because its controversial and you're justifying it like we humans can do so well.\
Quote:
is it a noble and controversial use of free spreech?
Its a time-honored American hobby and passtime to set out to hurt and offend people in the name of freedom of speech. There is nothing noble about that whatsoever, it's just antisocial.
Don't be one of those. The swastika is associated with so much misery in the western world, and all you're really saying is "war genocide atrocity holocaust-survivors yes I know, but I think it looks pretty".
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fapjack
Title



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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Asante]
#7739519 - 12/10/07 07:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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You are a total buzzkill.
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SheerTerror
ST


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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7739768 - 12/10/07 09:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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its just a simple symbol, i know it was used in other cultures like Egypt way back but I don't see how the swastika could not be associated with antisemitism by everyone since what happened in world war 1 were the most significant events related to the symbol. So why not just leave it with all that, and its still being used today as a symbol by racists all over the world so it will continue to be embraced by them. so there really is no "taking back the symbol" or "corrupting history to wash away what happened". unless you just want to be a douche, then roll into Compton or Oakland like that
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Asante
Mage


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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: fapjack]
#7739837 - 12/10/07 10:13 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
You are a total buzzkill.
Why?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Asante]
#7739882 - 12/10/07 10:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wouldn't display it openly outside of a religious/mystical context, but it is very meaningful, and I don't think the Nazis should have a monopoly on it. It's not just a matter of it "looking pretty" and I don't like it just because people find it offensive. It's actually a powerful symbol with lots of history behind it.
Some tastefully decorated swastikas:



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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Silversoul]
#7739977 - 12/10/07 10:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
It's not just a matter of it "looking pretty" and I don't like it just because people find it offensive.
To some extent that seemed the case with the threadstarter though.
If you have spiritual use for the swastika then use it, but like you say it would be good form to keep it to yourself and informed people.
The time is not ripe. I live in Holland. For us the war started with one of our major cities (Rotterdam, to our nation then more important than New York City is to the USA) being leveled by the Luftwaffe. Then we were occupied for years, and on a population of a few million, well over a hundred thousand people were deported and killed in the concentration camps. Our workers were deported to Germany to be used as slave labor for the war industry. Now, over 60 years on, swastikas are still very much frowned upon and near-universally associated with Nazism.
The Swastika has quite a stigma. No religion etc requires that it is to be worn visibly etc, so why needlessly offend many people, with the added risk of drawing negative attention to yourself? Many people will think less of you and treat you accordingly and neonazis might raise their arm and start race war chitchat with you.
Why have all that to begin with
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fapjack
Title



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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Asante]
#7739994 - 12/10/07 10:59 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Dunno, but you're blind hatred of the symbol is the same as the blind hatred of the Jews by the nazis. The american flag can be seen as an insult to natives, and the star of david can be seen as an insult to Palestinans, no one seems to care about that. I say people should just mind their own business, some people find the word fuck offensive, well fuck them. People are free to express their opinions no matter how much it bothers others.
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Asante
Mage


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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: fapjack]
#7740102 - 12/10/07 11:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Dunno, but you're blind hatred of the symbol is the same as the blind hatred of the Jews by the nazis.
I don't hate the Swastika. At all. But in western society it does cause offense, quite some in fact with quite some people.
Quote:
The american flag can be seen as an insult to natives, and the star of david can be seen as an insult to Palestinans, no one seems to care about that.
Plenty of people care about that.
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People are free to express their opinions no matter how much it bothers others.
This is emphasized too much in recent times, and theres a large group of people, especially on the Internet, who use this as an excuse to look for stuff that offends the most and then bash people over the head with it whom they know will take offense. Freedom of speech wasn't intended to entertain the antisocial, it was intended so people could voice their sincere beliefs. When freedom of speech eventually will be gagged, which is a loss, it will be done to limit the damage done by the abusers of free speech who are in it for their personal offending game, not because of people who voice their sincere beliefs.
People can have the most extremist views, yet be civil about it. There's a difference between voicing your opinion, and setting out on a campaign to offend people. Lately there's less and less of the former and more and more of the latter.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Asante]
#7740115 - 12/10/07 11:34 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wiccan_Seeker said: The time is not ripe. I live in Holland. For us the war started with one of our major cities (Rotterdam, to our nation then more important than New York City is to the USA) being leveled by the Luftwaffe. Then we were occupied for years, and on a population of a few million, well over a hundred thousand people were deported and killed in the concentration camps. Our workers were deported to Germany to be used as slave labor for the war industry. Now, over 60 years on, swastikas are still very much frowned upon and near-universally associated with Nazism.
I'm curious if you have any Indian immigrants in your country. I think they might have a different perspective on the swastika.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Silversoul]
#7740379 - 12/10/07 12:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm curious if you have any Indian immigrants in your country. I think they might have a different perspective on the swastika.
Of course, on both counts 
But, to drive it into extremes, it matters whether you see an Indian guy wearing a gold ring with a swastika symbol, or a white guy with a swastika on his shirt.
Of course! It shouldn't matter! But on the reality level, with people being people, it does matter. The Indian guy's discrete swastika, and his appearance, won't as readily be associated with Nazism like the white guy with the t shirt will.
Look at the picture posted some posts up. The guy with the shirt elicits a WTF response in the western world. There's a good chance he's not a Nazi, so WTF. Had he been a white guy however, you'd immediately suspect the guy of having Nazi sympathies. OMG! Thats racist! Yes it is, but it is how the world works.
A shirt like his (the Swastika in Nazi configuration) would in fact be illegal to wear on the streets of Holland. We in Holland have great freedoms, like buying weed in coffeeshops and the right to die a dignified death, but we set clear limits on when those freedoms start to infringe on the well-being of others.
In the ideal world the Swastika would be seen as a spiritual symbol, like it has been for millennia. But we don't live in an ideal world, Hitler saw to that, and it will take at least another sixty or so years before the wounds can be reasonably healed by the passing of time.
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dshroom
balshem

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 174
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Minstrel]
#7740421 - 12/10/07 12:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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of course it should not be "brought back". it has become and remains a potent symbol of evil and needs to remain as such so that people never forget what it stands for: The systematic genocide of gypsys, catholics, russians, poles, homosexuals and jews. does anyone here stand for that? gosh i hope not.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: dshroom] 1
#7740432 - 12/10/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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dshroom said: of course it should not be "brought back". it has become and remains a potent symbol of evil and needs to remain as such so that people never forget what it stands for: The systematic genocide of gypsys, catholics, russians, poles, homosexuals and jews. does anyone here stand for that? gosh i hope not.
It is a much more ancient symbol than that, and its original meaning is much too sacred to forever relegate it to such a repulsive status.
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dshroom
balshem

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 174
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Asante]
#7740436 - 12/10/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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god blesses Holland and all of those that protect the innocent from the killers on this planet.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Silversoul]
#7740508 - 12/10/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is a much more ancient symbol than that, and its original meaning is much too sacred to forever relegate it to such a repulsive status.
The Swastika exists as a sacred symbol for many millennia, it can stand a century or two of obscurity in the western world. In time, people will gaze at the Nazi flag as a symbol of our violent unenlightened past, and the Swastika will be known mostly for what it ought to stand for, instead of what the Nazis used it for.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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dshroom
balshem

Registered: 08/30/06
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7740516 - 12/10/07 12:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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what is its sacred meaning?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: dshroom]
#7740601 - 12/10/07 01:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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dshroom said: what is its sacred meaning?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
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In Hinduism, the two symbols represent the two forms of the creator god Brahma: facing right it represents the evolution of the universe (Pravritti), facing left it represents the involution of the universe (Nivritti). It is also seen as pointing in all four directions (north, east, south and west) and thus signifies stability and groundedness. Its use as a sun symbol can first be seen in its representation of the god Surya. The swastika is considered extremely holy and auspicious by all Hindus, and is regularly used to decorate items related to Hindu culture. It is used in all Hindu yantras and religious designs. Throughout the subcontinent of India, it can be seen on the sides of temples, religious scriptures, gift items, and letterheads. The Hindu god Ganesh is often shown sitting on a lotus flower on a bed of swastikas.
The swastika is found all over Hindu temples, signs, altars, pictures and iconography where it is sacred. It is used in Hindu weddings, festivals, ceremonies, houses and doorways, clothing and jewelry, motor transport and even decorations on food items such as cakes and pastries. Among the Hindus of Bengal, it is common to see the name "swastika" (Bengali: স্বস09;তিক sbastik) applied to a slightly different symbol, which has the same significance as the common swastika, and both symbols are used as auspicious signs. This symbol looks something like a stick figure of a human being. "Swastika" (স্বস509;তিক Sbastik) is a common given name amongst Bengalis and a prominent literary magazine in Kolkata (Calcutta) is called the Swastika.
The Aum symbol is also sacred in Hinduism. While Aum is representative of a single primordial tone of creation, the Swastika is a pure geometrical mark and has no syllabic tone associated with it. The Swastika is one of the 108 symbols of Lord Vishnu and represents the sun's rays, without which there would be no life.
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The symbol as it is used in Buddhist art and scripture is known in Japanese as a manji (literally, "the character for eternality" 萬字), and represents Dharma, universal harmony, and the balance of opposites. When facing left, it is the omote (front) manji, representing love and mercy. Facing right, it represents strength and intelligence, and is called the ura (rear) manji. Balanced manji are often found at the beginning and end of Buddhist scriptures (outside India). On maps in the Taipei subway system a swastika is employed to indicate a temple, next to a cross indicating a Christian church. On maps in the Taipei subway system a swastika is employed to indicate a temple, next to a cross indicating a Christian church.
Buddhism originated in the Indian subcontinent in the 5th century BC and inherited the manji. These two symbols are included, at least since the Liao Dynasty, as part of the Chinese language, the symbolic sign for the character 萬 or 万 (wà n in Chinese, man in Korean/Japanese, vạn in Vietnamese) meaning "all" or "eternality" (lit. myriad) and as 卐, which is seldom used. A manji marks the beginning of many Buddhist scriptures. The manji (in either orientation) appears on the chest of some statues of Gautama Buddha and is often incised on the soles of the feet of the Buddha in statuary. Because of the association with the right-facing swastika associated with Nazism, Buddhist manji (outside India only) after the mid-20th century are almost universally left-facing: 卍. This form of the manji is often found on Chinese food packaging to signify that the product is vegetarian and can be consumed by strict Buddhists. It is often sewn into the collars of Chinese children's clothing to protect them from evil spirits.
In 1922, the Chinese Syncretist movement Daoyuan founded the philanthropic association Red Swastika Society in imitation of the Red Cross. The association was very active in China during the 1920s and the 1930s.
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Jainism gives even more prominence to the swastika than does Hinduism. It is a symbol of the seventh Jina (Saint), the Tirthankara Suparsva. In the Svetambar Jain tradition, it is also one of the symbols of the ashta-mangalas. It is considered to be one of the 24 auspicious marks and the emblem of the seventh arhat of the present age. All Jain temples and holy books must contain the swastika and ceremonies typically begin and end with creating a swastika mark several times with rice around the altar.
Jains use rice to make a swastika (also known as "Sathiyo" in the state of Gujarat, India) in front of idols in a temple. Jains then put an offering on this swastika, usually a ripe or dried fruit, a sweet (mithai), or a coin or currency note. In 2001, India issued a 100-rupee coin to commemorate the 2600th anniversary of the birth of Mahavir, the 24th and last Jainist Tirthankara; the design includes a swastika.
If you hate Hindus, Buddhists, and Jains, then by all means denigrate the swastika. I'm sure that the dogmatically non-violent Jains would love to hear how their most sacred symbol is a symbol of hate and genocide.
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dshroom
balshem

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 174
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7741002 - 12/10/07 02:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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i am sure the jains know it already. i denigrate noting by the way, it was not i who used it on my uniform as the children were butchered by the nazi monsters. this is a sad reflection on our planet that a symbol of creation can be corrupted by monsters. i hate nothing, in fact quite the opposite.
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Compass
Ancient Light

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 1,149
Loc: The Border of Reality
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7741497 - 12/10/07 04:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sweet. Google "taking back the swastika."
Found a better article: http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A10101/manwoman/
Check this guy out.
-------------------- nystagmus dopamine guru inverted pop culture love scars of sorrow fleshy synesthesia hippie farts perpetual tinnitus Reclaim the Swastika!
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BrAiN
Art Fag


Registered: 03/01/01
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7741507 - 12/10/07 04:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'd like to bring back the CONFEDERATE FLAG because it really is a symbol os the rights of the states over the federal gov't
But it'll never happen. If I fly that sucker here in DC I'll get shot.
Some symbols are worth just letting go.
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mrsautoman
Don't DriveAngry



Registered: 06/15/05
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7741968 - 12/10/07 06:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_swastika

These were a bunch of deciduous trees planted in a pine forest to show up in the fall as a swastika.
Silly Germans cut it down. Now why would you destroy a piece of history like that? Symbols don't hurt people, people hurt people.
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~I was born of a voice untimely, the so-called echo of a man's ordure~
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adrian7812
Stranger



Registered: 09/26/07
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: mrsautoman]
#7742036 - 12/10/07 06:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't have anything against the swastika. It's just what society sees it as. We can't really help that and I think it's ok to just accept and respect the general populace's opinions and beliefs and if we want to have a swastika flag in our house... so be it. Though, if you were going to go parading around the street with one draped over your back, expect to face consequences from people who think you are a neo nazi.
It's really a personal choice as to whether you like it or not, because I don't think that any time soon, people as a nation will accept it.
-------------------- Nothing I say is true. It is entirely fictional. In fact, my life is entirely fictional. I do not exist.
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fapjack
Title



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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Asante]
#7742581 - 12/10/07 08:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wiccan_Seeker said: This is emphasized too much in recent times, and theres a large group of people, especially on the Internet, who use this as an excuse to look for stuff that offends the most and then bash people over the head with it whom they know will take offense. Freedom of speech wasn't intended to entertain the antisocial, it was intended so people could voice their sincere beliefs. When freedom of speech eventually will be gagged, which is a loss, it will be done to limit the damage done by the abusers of free speech who are in it for their personal offending game, not because of people who voice their sincere beliefs.
People can have the most extremist views, yet be civil about it. There's a difference between voicing your opinion, and setting out on a campaign to offend people. Lately there's less and less of the former and more and more of the latter.
There aren't that many irl trolls, it might go on the internet, but the internet is big and open, if you don't like someone's opinion don't read it. Anyone that is wearing a swastika around, probably believes in it more likely then they are just trolling people. You can get beat up for that shit, as some people are more closed minded then the idiot wearing the swastika.
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Compass
Ancient Light

Registered: 10/17/06
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Asante]
#7747992 - 12/12/07 03:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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So what measures must I take, short of converting to one of those religions, to insure that my use of the symbol is genuine and tied to my personal/spiritual beliefs?
But you are smart enough to know part of its allure and power is its controversial nature.
How to be unique and positive in this culture...
Maybe it's my way of saying, "Let the past be the past. Learn from it, but don't let it control the present." Is that a worthy enough message to display the symbol?
-------------------- nystagmus dopamine guru inverted pop culture love scars of sorrow fleshy synesthesia hippie farts perpetual tinnitus Reclaim the Swastika!
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ivi


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,089
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7781038 - 12/20/07 10:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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haha, sorry, off-topic 
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: ivi]
#7781125 - 12/20/07 10:57 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thats in terribly bad taste ivi.
This (warning - graphic) is what I think of when I think of Nazism:
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TheravadaDreams
Cosmic Voyager



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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Compass]
#7781190 - 12/20/07 11:16 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I see the swastika everytime I visit my local Zendo. It's imprinted on every Buddha in the place. No problem with it whatsoever, as long as the Nazi's arn't using it.
-------------------- "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." -Siddhartha Guatama a.k.a Buddha. MonsterMitch Mono-Tub.
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kidaihuan
First Growery Ban



Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 3,173
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Notice that it is the mirror image of the one the Nazis used.
It's not the exact same symbol... it's backwards.
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ivi


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,089
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: Asante]
#7782355 - 12/20/07 04:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wiccan_Seeker said: Thats in terribly bad taste ivi
You missed my point entirely.
As to the topic, I'd like to get the swastika back as well (it's richly represented in my coutry's folklore and traditional art), i just don't think it's going to happen during our lifetimes. Nazis fucked it up bad, and I mean - really bad.
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Compass
Ancient Light

Registered: 10/17/06
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: kidaihuan]
#7784062 - 12/20/07 11:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I believe they used to use the left-facing and the right-facing one in about equal proportions.
It's only recently they are more found of the left-facing one to not have the controversy in the west.
It's a common misconception that the left-facing one is the only one in those religions.
-------------------- nystagmus dopamine guru inverted pop culture love scars of sorrow fleshy synesthesia hippie farts perpetual tinnitus Reclaim the Swastika!
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Psilobuds
₪


Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 1,775
Loc:
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Re: Taking back the swastika [Re: BrandNoob]
#7985576 - 02/06/08 02:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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BrandNoob said: This is something I've been thinking about a lot for the past several years, and again the past several months. Yes it should be taken back for religious and non-racist uses, and small steps and a lot of persecution is how we're gonna get there.
Did you ever see how the Raelians had to change their logo which was a unicursal Star of David/Swastika hybrid? It was awesome - even if they are nutty like a fruitcake. Now they've got the hexagram with a swirl in the middle. It's not nearly as cool looking.
Raelians threw/funded a couple psytrance partys around here as an attempt to recruit all us freaks, were pretty deece partys
Edited by Psilobuds (02/06/08 02:57 AM)
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