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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7639525 -

Tchan909 said:
People assume scientists know these things. Constantly.

People say they don't believe in God or the afterlife because they believe in science. Science has never disproved either of these things, it just fails to address them because it has no means of doing so.



Well there's your problem, it's not science it's just people, people are stupid. All science is us recording what we've seen happen in our world so far. If you take the entire human race and personify it as a person, that person was just put in this place, not told how anything works, what he's supposed to, etc. All science is is that person jotting down notes about everything around him (i.e. "Ok, things fall down, not up." "Water turns to ice in cold"), we've just advanced on those immensly because there are so many people out there who have a thirst for knowledge.


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Let's get the fuck out of here.

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7639535 -

People assume scientists know these things. Constantly.


So what? Whos fault is that? Maybe people should learn to read and think critically and maybe even make thought out posts.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7639759 -

Quote:
If children sit down at a video game and play it for a long time, they will naturally come to the conclusion that they understand it once they have gotten good at it. However, chances are they have absolutely no understanding of how the console actually functions and why it produces the images and sounds that it does.

Scientists are like that. Just because you have treatments for ADD, depression, schizophrenia, etc. doesn't mean you know what those treatments actually do or how the brain works.

Stop worshiping science, people. It's a false idol. I want to be a scientist someday but I plan on keeping the place of my work in perspective. A lot of these people talk like they understand things much better than they do, and a lot of us just lap it all up.


I completely agree. Its a lot more than psychological disorders its everything. A lot of ignorant people take science as the absolute truth and dont realy question the mysteries of reality and the universe that science has never been able to unlock. It is very much like a kid playing a video game. One can make all sorts of interesting observations about our universe, but there will always be those underlying mysteries which scientists cant penetrate.

But I think all scientists, at least most acknowledge this. Many scientists are religious or spiritual because of their work. They have such an understanding of how incredibly mysterious our universe is and turn to spirituality as an answer. Einstein is a great example of this.

I just cant take complete atheists who dont know anything about science but take it as the answer for everything, then disregard anything unexplained because they dont want to open their minds. Even atheists who do know a lot about science, will do this. Its frustrating to try and have a philosophical discussion with someone like this.

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7639791 -

Scientists know a huge amount of information but you'll never hear them say they completely understand how something works. Especially the body or brain. People put faith in science because its an objective way of looking at things, I'd trust a scientists work and word long before I'd trust a fucking politician or priest. I mean at least scientists look at things that are real, not things that appear to be real. If anything is a false idol, its Christ, or money, not science. Case Closed.

If people lap up shit from science and don't research for themselves, and take anything they say for truth, BLAME THE PERSON, NOT SCIENCE.

All science does is objectively obtain information, different scientists come to different conclusions about that information, just as you should. Science is the ONE thing humans have created that can be pure.


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"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living."

General Omar N. Bradley

Edited by 2FiNiTe (11/15/07 03:28 PM)

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: Diploid]
    #7639803 -

But diploid, I think he is saying that there is often an unconscious assumption that it does, regaurdless of what science is "defined" as. His example of the whole pharm industry is a very good example of that.

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: daytripper23]
    #7639810 -

You have to remember, Scientific information is gathered, and worked on by scientists. It is then put into use by people who are NOT scientists. People who are worried about profit margins not people or good science. You can't blame science for the decisions of bureaucratic pigs.


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"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living."

General Omar N. Bradley

Edited by 2FiNiTe (11/15/07 03:32 PM)

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: 2FiNiTe]
    #7639813 -

Right, I am not blaming science.

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: daytripper23]
    #7639827 -

Although the pharm situation might basically come down to money, it is exploited through an assumption that science has thoroughly explored the connections between mind and body.

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: daytripper23]
    #7639844 -

Unfortunately your exactly right, the same people take something science has created. Market it as something that has been thoroughly researched and completely safe, by using scientific terms and whatnot. This is called Pseudo-Science. Its in use everywhere today.

25% less fat...25% less that what?
50% more shampoo...50% more than what?
All test subjects reported improved sleep cycles....how many test subjects? Over how much time? After how much use? Did they report side effects?


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"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living."

General Omar N. Bradley

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: daytripper23]
    #7639851 -

But diploid, I think he is saying that there is often an unconscious assumption that it does, regaurdless of what science is "defined" as.

I don't take issue with that. I agree with that.

What I take issue with is this:

Quote:
Science has never disproved either of these things
if you try to use science to disprove


Those two sentences make is crystal clear that he doesn't have even the most elementary conception of what science is, yet somehow he feels qualified to condemn it.

No research at all. Not even looking up the definition of the word or reading the Wiki articles, yet here's a whole thread dissing science based on his non-knowledge.

And then, AMAZINGLY, we get this gem:

Quote:
A lot of these people talk like they understand things much better than they do


The irony would be hilarious if it weren't so fucking sad. :sad:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: Diploid]
    #7639858 -

I have to agree with Diploid, anyone that knows the most basic part of science knows that science is:

UNBIASED AND COMPLETELY OBJECTIVE

It takes no side, it never seeks to prove or disprove. It only seeks to discover.


--------------------
"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living."

General Omar N. Bradley

Edited by 2FiNiTe (11/15/07 03:46 PM)

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: Diploid]
    #7639880 -

Quote:
Science has never disproved either of these things
if you try to use science to disprove



What? It is a valid statement, and one that is often overlooked. Clearly you don't make this false assumption and neither does he. No one is being sad or stupid IMO.

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: daytripper23]
    #7639896 -

It is a valid statement

It's as valid as "No one has ever pulled a watermellon out of their ass".

Only someone incapable of understanding that watermellon don't come out of people's ass would make such a moronic statement.

Science does not prove or disprove ANYTHING. That is at the foundation of science. Stating it with the smugness of an an authority only demonstrates ignorance.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: Diploid]
    #7639906 -

Really, I think alot of people think they can pull watermelons out of their asses :shrug:.

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: daytripper23]
    #7639940 -

perhaps little tiny ones

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: 2FiNiTe]
    #7640470 -

2FiNiTe said:
I have to agree with Diploid, anyone that knows the most basic part of science knows that science is:

UNBIASED AND COMPLETELY OBJECTIVE

It takes no side, it never seeks to prove or disprove. It only seeks to discover.


That describes the aims of science, but not necessarily scientists. Also, "completely objective" is a bit much to ask of it. If QM and relativity have taught us anything, it's that any observation you make is true only relative to the instrument used to make it, and relative the vantage point from which the observation is made. There is no privileged vantage point in the universe.


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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games *DELETED* [Re: Diploid]
    #7640870 -

Post deleted by Tchan909

Reason for deletion: pointless



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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (11/15/07 08:01 PM)

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7641012 -

Diploid, I think you misunderstood the entire point of my original post. I'm not talking about the scientists, or science as a body of knowledge. I'm talking about those people - and there are millions of them - who do not fully understand science, its methods, or its execution, yet allow it to dictate their beliefs about the universe at large, known and unknown. They use science as an excuse to deny God. These people are deluded and lost.

This is called scientism, and it is a fundamental problem in modern thought. Check it out on wiki.

I'll try to be clearer from now on.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (11/15/07 08:17 PM)

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7641063 -

My beef isn't with that. My beef is with your misunderstanding of science to such an extent that you are doing the very thing you're condemning.

Anyone who uses science to deny God is a fool. On this, we agree because while science has plenty to say about the things it can see and touch and experiment on, it as NOTHING AT ALL to say about the things that cannot be materially observed. Those things are outside the scope of science and science doesn't care about them and it has nothing to say about them one way or another.

But that said, I don't know anyone who uses science to deny God. No one in this forum anyway, and I think the main thrust of your opening post was in that direction. Correct me if I'm wrong.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: scientists are like kids playing video games [Re: Diploid]
    #7641080 -

Well hell's bell's, maybe I misunderstood something I read.

Like I said earlier, I was mainly responding to the conversation about chakras where their corporeality was coming into question. Somebody (I think it was you but I'm not sure) tried to conclusively deny it on the grounds that science has never confirmed them, and I took issue with that.

I've never had the impression that science, when applied correctly, has the authority to definitively prove or disprove anything. Most reasonably intelligent people can understand this. Unfortunately, not everyone does, and whether this post was created because of a misunderstanding or not my point stands.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (11/15/07 08:29 PM)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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