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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7412446 -


it seems that some of the truths we've been discussing in this thread and others in the same vein should be more liberating than horrifying. i understand this intellectually, but i myself am also horrified, and lost, and broken, in the face of the void. at least we're getting closer.

i think the remaining puzzle piece is complete acceptance of this infinite emptiness. if we could overcome our shock and disappointment without becoming bitter about all this, all that would remain would be liberation from the suffering creation has bound us to.

is it finally apathy that is required? lets call it distanced compassion instead.

Edited by Archemetis (09/15/07 10:55 AM)

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Windows]
    #7412688 -

Windows said:
Have you ever taken a philosophy class or even studied philosophy?

What you're talking about sounds pretty incoherent. I don't think you are even using an working definition of "known" and "unknown". I will present this thread to another forum for further criticism.


I have a degree in philosophy at Thomas Jefferson Collage in Michigan.(not) The fact that it sounds incoherent to you makes perfect sense to me.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Archemetis]
    #7412700 -

Quote:
If we could overcome our shock and disappointment without becoming bitter about all this, all that would remain would be liberation from the suffering creation has bound us to.


I agree, with one exception: we have bound ourselves to suffering. Being embodied has bound us to experiencing pain and pleasure, but suffering is entirely optional.

Edited by Veritas (09/15/07 12:53 PM)

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Veritas]
    #7412800 -

:thumbup: Right o


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Icelander]
    #7419015 -

aye, its a learning process i suppose

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Windows]
    #7420144 -

Scary, :whoa: a "formal" debate.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Icelander]
    #7420309 -

Descartes once undertook to explore what we ultimately can and cannot know. He reasoned that any given subject can be certain of only one thing: that he/she exists. The whole thing rests upon ultimate truth values. Descartes considered that something is true only when nothing conceivable is incompatible with the proposition's ramifications. So every proposition was battered by a series of "what if" scenarios: what if I'm just a brain in a vat, fed with electrical impulse, matrix style, could I ever tell reality from my electrically manifested world? Descartes' answer was no (he used a demon who was conjuring his sensual world around him instead of the brain in a vat scenario). He found he could answer only one question in the affirmative: Do I exist? Obviously the asking gave the answer.

His thoughts on this have come to be known as Cartesian Skepticism if anyone wants to check it out.

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Icelander]
    #7420423 -

Icelander said:
Scary, :whoa: a "formal" debate.


You'll have to rent a tux.  :wink:

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Veritas]
    #7421421 -

Cuz if he is going to be impotent, he should look impotent! :rofl2:


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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7423024 -

:albundy:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. *DELETED* [Re: Veritas]
    #7423309 -

Post deleted by dorkus

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: dorkus]
    #7423540 -

As I said: Being embodied has bound us to experiencing pain and pleasure.  :shrug:

Emotional suffering is the really nasty stuff, and it is rooted in neurosis, not in sensation.

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. *DELETED* [Re: Veritas]
    #7423621 -

Post deleted by dorkus

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: dorkus]
    #7423651 -

I have found over and over that my fear of pain is bound to make the experience of pain, more intense.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: dorkus]
    #7423673 -

The question which arises for me about physical pain is: do we allow ourselves to experience the pain as-is, or do we overlay suffering onto the sensation by resisting and refusing the experience itself?

I gave birth to both my sons without the use of pain medication, and I discovered an amazing difference between experiencing pain and fighting pain. When I accepted the painful nature of my physical experience, and ceased to demand an alternate version of reality, my perception of the pain itself was changed. I did everything I could to relax into the pain, which is the opposite of our reflexive reaction.

It seems to me that this is applicable to the experience of life in general--we know that there will be pain, we can accept that reality (though we may not like it), and we can cease to demand an alternate version. We can relax into the pain/pleasure aspects of our life experience, and reduce the emotional suffering created by neurosis.

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Veritas]
    #7423727 -

Awesome :heart:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7423734 -

MushroomTrip said:
Awesome :heart:


:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Veritas]
    #7423782 -

Acceptance of 'nescessary' pain has strong limits.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7424868 -

Could you elaborate?  :confused:  Are you saying that we should accept pain as being necessary on a limited basis, or that there are "strong" limits (??) to how much pain we can tolerate, or ???

I would classify necessary physical pain as that which is not self-inflicted nor avoidable at the time it occurs.  Illness, accidental injury not incurred during extreme sports, wear and tear due to aging, childbirth, etc...

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Veritas]
    #7426265 -

You are so silly. Extreme sports are very necessary. :yesnod:


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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