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Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology
    #7247129 -

On a recent episode, TV magician Cris Angel, recreates a decades old psychological experiment.

He has his team cut out random horoscopes from several newspapers and tapes the blurb to some Tarot cards.

He then sets up a tent (in the Luxor?) in Vegas and does tarot readings for $5 on five random people. He then procedes to do a 'reading' on the five clients that is EXACTLY THE SAME and written by different astrologers for different signs.

EVERYONE of the clients rated Angel as 90-100% accurate. Several of the women were in tears, they were so incredibly touched by the 'personal' reading. "I knew he was seeing deep into my soul, " sighs one woman. Another adds, "He knew things about me that not even my best friend knew."

Cris later gathers the five together and explains all about wishful thinking and confirmation bias much to their shock.


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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7247153 -

Deep, very deep inside, we are all ONE. :eek:


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So dreaming let's you know reality exists.



I don't belive. I fear.

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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7247207 -

they're tools for self-awareness, nothing more, nothing less.


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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7247209 -

Perhaps irrational wishful thinking has some kind of genetic survival value among humans? If one person in a group of stupid people can convince all of the others to behave erratically in a way that increases the survival rate for his genes (for example, they might give him food or money for occult readings), then perhaps the likelihood of the group gene pool's survival is increased?

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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: Rhizoid]
    #7247850 -

"Perhaps irrational wishful thinking has some kind of genetic survival value among humans?"

To the rulers of this planet!
I wonder who taught humans to think like that anyway.:banghead:


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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7248029 -

so long as the individuals felt inspired or gained some clearity of mind, i dont think thats de-bunking at all. if it feels good its good.

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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7248033 -

It doesn't matter what Tarot cards come up in a reading. It's that the use of them gets folk to focus and think about what is going on in their experience. Often people need these things because they are not ready to trust there own clear perception of what is. So they do have some value at times.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7248295 -

so orgone.... would we be able to debunk medical science if we took a person with a set of physical symptoms to 5 different doctors and got 5 different diagnosis?

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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7248385 -

1. Look up 'strawman' argument.

2. Look it up again. You have been here long enough to have mastered this basic. I have full confidence that you can understand the concept.

3. Point out anywhere in this thread where I mentioned doctor, patient, diagnosis or medicine. Oh, I didn't, did I?

Thanks for playing.


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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7250016 -

I was making the point that you are trying to debunk an entire field of interest through one situation and 5 or so people.

I think all too often you make great leaps and use some of your own debating fallacies to support your "witch trials", yet refuse to apply any of those thoughts towards your precious science.

If I were to make a thread that talked about a story involving a woman with some rare disease who was diagnosed differently by every single doctor she went to..... would that debunk all of medical science?
no, it debunks all those medical professionals involved....
just like how your story debunks tarot and astrology for all those people involved.
It doesn't debunk the entire field.

also, my previous argument wasn't a strawman. 1) I wasnt refuting what you had stated, I was asking you a question.
2) a strawman is like this: You state A. then I state B, and go on to show how B=A, and then refute B and say or infer that A is refuted if B is refuted.

I never refuted B.

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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7250426 -

I was making the point that you are trying to debunk an entire field of interest through one situation and 5 or so people.

This has been tried with more than 5 people over the years:



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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: Icelander]
    #7250655 -

Icelander said:
It doesn't matter what Tarot cards come up in a reading. It's that the use of them gets folk to focus and think about what is going on in their experience. Often people need these things because they are not ready to trust there own clear perception of what is. So they do have some value at times.


This is what I feel also. My sister wont accept much of my father advice for example, but she does believe that he does very good rune readings, and as such he has been able to direct her attention with the use of runes to certain aspects of her life that are in need of attention. Call it trickery, but it works, and my sister is very grateful for the readings.


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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7250875 -

Orgone, I think that you (i.e., Criss) are the ones employing a strawman argument. I agree he's debunked Tarot -- if we define "Tarot" as "a deck of cards predicting the first letter of the first name of the woman I'll marry." We could play this all day. Let's define "prayer" as "10 Hail Mary's gets you a raise." Let's define "karma" as "I punched a guy, and two years later someone punched me!" My point is that these are shallow and trite interpretations of deep spiritual concepts.

I am aware that many people do in fact hold such literal views, I just don't think there's much to be gained by "debunking." I suppose that's another debate though -- the usefulness and goals of debunking.

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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: Sinbad]
    #7250919 -

I thought Buddhism sought to look behind delusion.


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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: FollowTheMusic]
    #7250930 -

Understanding human psychology and self-deception is unimportant?

Exposing fakes, lies and deceit is unimportant?

Then you talk about truths...


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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7250966 -

Gullible people have always existed; their fears and anxieties exploited by con men. We can only hope to reduce the percentage through aggressive exposure of the lies and deceits.

James Randi is the foremost debunker of them all, and his website is an excellent source for skeptics.


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Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane

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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7250976 -

I think that's evasion.

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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7251070 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
I thought Buddhism sought to look behind delusion.


More like cut through, but yes it is. But It is your opinion that the rune readings are delusion. My father and my sister think otherwise while I'm more inclined to agree with you to some extent. This does not mean that I negate the benefit of such rituals, in fact there are many rituals that are steeped in myth that I think are most beneficial for some, as they relate specifically to aspects of our psyhe's that are usually more or less unaccessible in a usual setting.


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Edited by Sinbad (08/02/07 11:36 AM)

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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: Sinbad]
    #7251083 -

A con man is performing a 'ritual'?


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Re: Criss Angel debunks Tarot & Astrology [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7251113 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
A con man is performing a 'ritual'?


Not in this case, no!


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