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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7108317 -

I guess that's good enough reason to act out with arrogance towards the people that are still believing in things.

Debating is one thing. Getting smug and acting better than someone else is another.

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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: Spooge]
    #7108332 -

Quote:
I guess that's good enough reason to act out with arrogance towards the people that are still believing in things.



Glad you agree. :yesnod:


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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7108333 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
I guess that's good enough reason to act out with arrogance towards the people that are still believing in things.



Glad you agree. :yesnod:


:rolleyes:

"Debating is one thing. Getting smug and acting better than someone else is another."

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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: Spooge]
    #7108349 -

Oh, you were being saracastic, yet you detest certain debating techniques.



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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7108355 -

I detest getting personal. Keep reaching

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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: Spooge]
    #7108361 -

Quote:
ZoooftheMoon said:That's iexactly what I'm saying. You were the one proposing the bet of "nothing extraordinary" occuring in 2012...not him. Obviously in making such a bold statement, and a hefty bet, you must have a clear idea and definition in your head of what you personally constitute as "extraordinary"...or NOT extraordinary I guess.



The default situation is "nothing extraordinary" happening. Else, whatever it is would not be extraordinary. What is being claimed is that something spectacular, unusual, and notable will happen. Define what that something might be -- even vaguely define what it might be!


I mean, heck, I have a feeling something's going to happen TOMORROW.

But "something" is quite broad. I'll probably take a shit tomorrow, and if I were so inclined I could match that up with today's prediction that something is going to happen, and dance my happy little self into the land of self-delusion. Probably make a thread about how I'm a psychic and predict the future.

Good thing I won't do any of that.



Now, the ones claiming that something extraordinary will happen -- well, I certainly would guess they have some idea what the word "extraordinary means". I would certainly hope! So if they know what the word means, and use it to describe what they think will happen, why would it be up to those who do not prescribe any special mystical hoodoo to december of 2012 to define "extraordinary"?

It only leaves the door open for the believers to claim that what THEY were claiming to be "extraordinary" does not match what the skeptics are accepting as "extraordinary". That means they get to believe they are right, and are simply misunderstood.

Now if you have the believers define clearly what they mean by "extraordinary", you have them cornered. They are either right, or wrong. There's no dancing around after the fact.


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i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.

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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #7108378 -

Quote:
There's no dancing around after the fact.


EVEN when specific predictions fail; there is ALWAYS dancing around after the fact.

My all-time favorite is how telepathy (or dowsing or healing or...?)can easily be blocked by S-rays (skeptic radiation) even though belief is allegedly much more powerful than doubt.


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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #7108470 -

Quote:
Define what that something might be -- even vaguely define what it might be!


again, as the bet process works, I still feel when Diploid says, "put your money where your mouth is. I bet you. 10:1 odds that nothing extraordinary will happen", it seems he already has a clear definition of what "nothing extraordinary" is in his mind. I'd hope so anyway. And I feel it's his responsibility to define that when challenging with a bet.

I could definetely see that "cornering tactic" to be used when the "believer" says, "I KNOW something is going to happen. I know so much I'm willing to be that something is going to happen. Something extraordinary. Something extremely significant." Then it would be the job of the skeptic, the one willing to take the bet, to be "what are your terms of extraordinary?"

I just find it was all ass backwards and all of a sudden everyone was putting it on his shoulders and ganging up on him to define what he thinks is EXACTLY going to happen, when I think, if this was a honest bet, that process should of started with Diploid.

Of course I agree, if the topic at hand was to try and corner the "believers" with their opinions on 2012, by getting them to define exactly what they think was going to happen in 2012, most would definetely be cornered. Like you said, they'll either be right or wrong, no excuses when the event(or non-event) has passed.

I think it's pretty hard to know exactly, if you are a believer. I mean, most are going on just what they've read from mckenna or mayan history or something...which is a weak arguement from a skeptics point of view. But like I said, it's a lose lose bet for them I think.

I think if something significant DOES happen, the skeptics are going to have just as many excuses as the believers will/would if nothing does happen.

The skeptic made the bet. Just what does he classify as "nothing at all"

would a tsunami that wipes out half the worlds population count?

what about an earthquake that did the same?

what if an astroid hit and took out an entire continent...would that count?

what exactly would do it for you skeptics...in detail? multiple scenarios?

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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: Spooge]
    #7108772 -

An extraordinary claim demands extraordinary evidence. Barring that, it requires an extraordinary idiot's willingness to believe.


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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7109116 -

figgusfiddus said:
An extraordinary claim demands extraordinary evidence. Barring that, it requires an extraordinary idiot's willingness to believe.


I know...people that don't believe what you believe and with much conviction are idiots.

I've already pointed out your ridiculous faults in this thread. Just stop digging your hole deeper.

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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7109654 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
The most likely believer response will be:

1. To claim the event happened on the non-physical plane.

2. To point out some tragic, but relatively normal human event as evidence.

3. To quickly glom onto the next popular prediction.

4. To learn from the fantasy and become a more rational being.

5. Silence. *Crickets chirping*



That's amazing that you traveled to the future and saw the "non-event"!


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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: Pulsating]
    #7109727 -

Yeah, he used astral projection and a few other skills you guys picked up off Magic cards and reruns of Inuyasha.


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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: Spooge]
    #7109743 -

ZoooftheMoon said:
figgusfiddus said:
An extraordinary claim demands extraordinary evidence. Barring that, it requires an extraordinary idiot's willingness to believe.


I know...people that don't believe what you believe and with much conviction are idiots.


No. I don't believe--I observe, and judge. Idiots are people who believe without cause because it pleases them to make up the truth rather than to examine reality to discover it.

Saying something sarcastically doesn't make it descriptive of your opponent's point of view. Sarcasm is only useful when you have actually figured out what they are saying.

Quote:
I've already pointed out your ridiculous faults in this thread. Just stop digging your hole deeper.


No, you haven't--you've evaded every point made, and said almost nothing in the process. Apparently you think you can never be wrong so long as you plug your ears and repeat yourself as loudly as possible.


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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7109797 -

Do you wonder why there are so many "non-believers" in the world? Perhaps they care more about living life, a real life, than becoming engrossed in wishing that life were something it isn't, something full of magic spells, chakras and mystic prophecies. These things don't make life better, they don't make life more real. Your mind is not free until you learn how to use it.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7106073#Post7106073

Rather than say it all again, there you go. I don't expect to change any lives here. Have fun writing your X-Files fanfics and searching for new lies to live.

The world is not in your mind. There wouldn't be room. It's not subjective, and it's completely wild, outside of your control. You don't have magic powers, you don't command the world's respect. Isn't it better that way? Go, explore. Get out of your goddamned room and explore.

Fucking new-agers.


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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7109905 -

keep dodging the imporant points I've made about your useless tactics and comments

Your a ridiculous debator.

Just as you don't expect to change me, it's even more doubtful to change your ignorance.  That is the only thing apparent.

What's even more is that you've already labeled and judged me and put me into a category and I never even came into this topic with a true opinion and argument whether I believe or don't believe.  You don't even know me or what I'm about, but it seems your whole being is set around labelling and catergorziing people. :rolleyes:

Quote:
Idiots are people who believe without cause


so you automatically assume all of the believers in this situation have no cause?  generalizations are a weak.

I'll start using some of your tactics and jump right in here.  I'm going to make an ignorant assumption of you, only because it seems justified and deserved in my eyes.  What you probably meant to say was:

Quote:
Idiots are people who believe without proof


You haven't made any points to evade.

What's your point?  these?

Quote:
Actually, the matter originated when people started saying something to the effect of: "Something extraordinary will happen in 2012 due to this prophecy." All he's saying is, "No, it won't. Prove it. Or else bet with me."

He didn't originate this notion, so the burden of definition isn't on him


i've addressed this and you dodged it.  and then most of your other "points" in this thread are smug, sarcastic(most of them regurgitated) remarks.  I don't need to quote them since that has been done already and you've already tried to dodge them and everything else I've said.

Quote:
Until then, what's the point?


exactly.  So why do you continue to banter?  You've already started sucking me into your game of snide remarks and it stops here for me.

My main point I leave with is, middle man came into a topic, which already assumes in a sarcastic manner that there is absoulutely going to be no event mind you, to say he really thinks something extraordinary is going to happen.  A skeptic challeneged him to a bet and then all of you ganged up on him, making the terms his responsibility.  "the whole notion being made by them in the first place" is irregardless  Bad form as far as betting etiquette is concerned.  Then there was a smaller point I made that I feel some of you really need to learn...to keep the snide, smug, sarcastic, ignorant comments out of your conversation.  Also bad form when it comes to discussion.  With that smaller opinion I was making, I admit I was slightly derailing the thread. 

You continue to dodge and it's hopeless to think I can have an actual discussion with you.

Mushmonkey, props to you btw :thumbup:

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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: Spooge]
    #7110166 -

A skeptic challeneged him to a bet and then all of you ganged up on him, making the terms his responsibility.

No, someone claimed something ill-defined and a skeptic asked him to define it precisely enough for a bet to be placed.

Then there was a smaller point I made that I feel some of you really need to learn...to keep the snide, smug, sarcastic, ignorant comments out of your conversation.

If you don't like the post, don't read it. It's simple. :shrug:

By the way, we have a mumbo jumbo forum one isle over for people who like to say magic exists without anyone calling them on bullshit. It may be more to your liking than this one.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: Diploid]
    #7110868 -

Quote:
No, someone claimed something ill-defined and a skeptic asked him to define it precisely enough for a bet to be placed.


No. someone claimed something extraordinary to happen. The other claimed no and hastily proceeded to challenge him to a bet, thus it's assumed the bet maker already had a clear definition in his head of what extraordinary and non-extraordinary was. But then he, with the help of the gang, proceeded to gang up, and once again I say, make the terms his responsibility. Maybe next time don't be so quick to jump in and bet someone if the terms aren't discussed first. I guess that was your whole setup though :shrug

Quote:
By the way, we have a mumbo jumbo forum one isle over for people who like to say magic exists without anyone calling them on bullshit. It may be more to your liking than this one.


More to my liking? Don't tell me you are going to categorize me too? I didn't really see that being your style. I haven't come in here with an opinion on the matter, nor have I talked or defended any kind of "magic, prophecies" or "mumbo jumbo".

You can defend some of these people, but in the end you and I both know that the snide, smug, ignorant posts that people start making, especially to the boys from that "mumbo jumbo" forum, are unnecessary in discussion and debating. It's just not tactful discussion, something I thought this forum prides itself on.

Come on man, your argument is weak

Quote:
If you don't like the post, don't read it. It's simple.


Some of you are getting way to caught up in your opinions, whether they are right or wrong, and some of you take it to far with the ignorant attitude, chalking it up to "I'm just proving a point". There is better ways to go about proving your point.

I'm all for debating someones opinions...especially in this forum. If they come into this board claiming something and they have an argument for it, they better be ready to back it up.

But how about leaving those smug, snide remarks out of the debate/discussion? (i'm not really directing that at any one in particular, although a few names come to mind).

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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: Diploid]
    #7111198 -

Diploid said:
By the way, we have a mumbo jumbo forum one isle over for people who like to say magic exists without anyone calling them on bullshit. It may be more to your liking than this one.


FUCKIN' BINGO!

But apparently one forum isn't big enough to hold this much crazy.

Is there a sticky on this subject? Perhaps one is in order? I mean, this is entertaining and all, but if I'm going to have an intellectual debate with someone, I'd rather it were someone who could participate. The fingers-in-ears-screaming-La-La-La approach gets pretty old.


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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7111313 -

Quote:
but if I'm going to have an intellectual debate with someone, I'd rather it were someone who could participate


:rolleyes:

THAT was the most entertaining comment in this entire thread

You have made no solid points and dodged everything I've called you on.  When you do post, it's a failed attempt at trying to be clever, only succeeding in being more ignorant each and every time.

Your new to this though(being here since 2007 and all), so I guess it's somewhat understandable.

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Re: When the December 2012 'prophecy' becomes a non-event... [Re: Spooge]
    #7111328 -

Quote:
Your new to this though(being here since 2007 and all), so I guess it's somewhat understandable.


HAHA! Yes, I've only been engaging in discussions with other people since February 2007. Thanks, that's a good one. Clever boy. What is the point of that statement, anyway? Some kind of pathetic attempt to call seniority?

Anyway, please, recap what I've "dodged"; give me a digest to work with. I haven't really been talking to you for most of this thread, and you've apparently used my name interchangeably with Diploid, but please educate me as to what deep, important points I've evaded over the course of this discussion that I may quickly point out where I refuted them. If I neglected to do so thus far, I will quickly address them now.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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