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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Rebirthing experiences on psychedelics
    #668498 - 06/08/02 08:52 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I was wondering if anyone has had any experiences like the ones Stanislav Grof refers to in "human encounters with Death"(circa 1979), either with artificial stimulus or without. I had a profound experience many years back with MDMA that left a lasting impression as to the veracity of these sort of experiences.Some indications of these experiences would seem to be seeing internal white light, hearing a pure high sound that seems to french fry your ego "impurities", going through the ouspenskian -3(hell) and +3(nirvanic bliss)energy vibrational fields etc.Your input would be greatly appreciated, thanx


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Rebirthing experiences on psychedelics [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #668778 - 06/08/02 12:52 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I consider myself a 'Grofian,' if I must (I'm a psychotherapist for 20 years) despite having been analyzed by 3 Zurich-trained Jungians for 8+ years.
On Independence Day 1973, I intranasally absorbed two tabs of Berkeley-made LSD - I'd estimate 300 mcg each. When the experience reached psychic overload proportions, and everything was humming electrically and glowing ozone-blue, I began to vOMit, during which I experienced something of a 'white-out.' I continued to vOMit outside, then took myself indoors, pulled the shades, and prepared to die (some blood in my vomit). I remember attempting to masturbate, both for self-soothing and to bring energy into the lower chakras for grounding, and I also began to explore some otherwise forbidden and self-censured Oedipal fantasies. The result was a revivification of by biological birth. I do not believe it was Basic Perinatal Matrix III as much as a reliving of my actual birth. My observing ego completely vanished for the duration of the experience of delivery. There was the emotion of pure, non-linguistic mortal terror; crushing suffocation and pain, as well as complete polymorphous sexuality of orgasmic intensity to balance the terror factor; orange-pink light; sounds of muffled voices and cries....and then I was back in my bed, sobbing. I looked down to see my body - the body of a 19 year, 360 day [significant cyclic number] old man - instead of a neonate. I was utterly confused. I had memory of my name and identity. How could this be, I was just now born?!!! Shouldn't I be a squalling new-born?

It was 20 years before I found Grof's work, and workable theoretical explanations. I went through years of yoga, Hindu and Buddhist studies of reincarnation and rebirth doctrines; Western metempsychosis and transmigration. theories. My life in a nutshell is that this experience motivated me to leave pre-med, obtain degrees in philosophy, theology and a Ph.D. in human development and clinical psychology; become a psychotherapist/hypnotherapist/addictions counselor and a spiritual human being. All because of one trip, all alone, on a sunny 4th of July long ago. I happen to be reading Grof's 'LSD Psychotherapy' currently, but I haven't read the volume you mention. Happy, however, to share a life-altering event, for those who are interested.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: Rebirthing experiences on psychedelics [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #668790 - 06/08/02 01:17 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Thanx for sharing. I personally never doubted the validity of my experience and was quite happy with it as far as assimilitaing it into my life even without finding related reading matrials until a couple years of it happening.I think "centre of the Cyclone" by John C. Lilly was the first. I should mention that the book to which I refer was actually co-authored By Dr Grof and Joan Halifax. Funny how those major league catharcic events usually take place on a symbolic day. Mine occured on Easter Sunday although I wasn't conciously aware of this as I had stopped going to church. I was raised catholic and according to Grof this would explain why in my case I went through the "stations of the cross" during my rebirthing episode.As I could hear these pure sounds and see this white light(neither the light or the sounds were of this world) I was also going through the actual stations of the crucifixion and could feel the crown of thorns in my head. I wanted to mention that this was the middle of the afternoon when this was happening and that my experience was the same with eyes open or closed. Just before it started I went into the bathroom and looked in the mirror and saw Christ's head on my shoulders(no lie). I also took this opportunity to weigh myself and I was 142 lbs. Maybe 4 or 5 hours later after the rebirthing episode Iagain weighed myself and saw that I was 135 lbs. I realize the physiology of this would seem to illustrate that I am fabricating all of this but I can assure you I'm not. I guess my only dissapointment concerning this entire incident was that I didn't/wasn't able to use it as some sort of springboard to give my life more direction in the way that you did. Apparently(according to Grof) most people that have this type of life changing experience at LEAST become actively involved in eastern philosophy. For whatever reason I just did not seem so inclinated


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Rebirthing experiences on psychedelics [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #669751 - 06/09/02 10:38 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Well, when I left college, and life brought me to my knees (a philosophy degreed 21 year old emptying wastepaper cans and sweeping floors for a living), I began to pray. I was going through teacher training in Transendental Meditation, and reading the Bible. When I discovered the great deception about the inner meanings of the Sanskrit mantras and initiations that were leaked from a defecting TMer turned Christian, I began to receive catechism at the Catholic Church. I was baptised Catholic, but then entered a Methodist seminary. The Writungs of the Orthodox Hesychasts (Prayer of the Heart) provided a conceptual bridge from Eastern yogic practices to Western contemplation. I've been a Christian since 1976. Of course, with the same objections that orthodox Christians had in the 2nd century to Gnostic Christians (e.g., levels of understanding, recognition of the immediacy of Christ in one's very psyche without the mediation of clergy, sacraments, etc.), most exoteric, doctrine-parroting Christians have of me today - and you, if you value entheogenic experiences as conveying genuine religious experience).


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: Rebirthing experiences on psychedelics [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #669912 - 06/09/02 01:15 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks again for your generous response. The irony wasn't lost on me by any means, here I was an ATHEIEST of the highest order at 19 going through the most truly "religious" experience imaginable outside of the confines of orthodox christianity with it's rituals and ceremonies...literally going through the stations of the cross on Easter Sunday......I mean i went through the -3(hell) in the gurjieffian sense the night before. Grof used this analogy: the Hell phase of -3 or the rebirthing is an analogue of being in the womb and feeling the anxiety involved as the fetus knows something is about to happen, the "purgatory phase" (the purification with the attendant inner light/sound etc) is the actual moving up the birth canal.....and of course the rebirthing itelfs, +3 or satori is literally breaking forth into the light.........that didn't actually occur til about 2 days after the physical rebirthing session itself.....I remember being instructed from within to grab my "be here now" by Ram Dass and open it and as soon as I did I was no longer "me" but an embodiment of light/or the spirt I fused with the universe literally and became spatial and boundless......and I remained in that state for maybe 7 days, walking around in the real world, with no hunger, or fear and knowing everything that was going to happen around me but not in an ego sense or to "show off" in any capacity.There was the ultimate sense of sanctity in every fibre of creation, each single breath was holy......words truly do fail me now as the experience was ineffable and words are such clumsy purveyors of truth even in the hands of the most skilled artisan of which I am not even close.I would reccomen "pathways through to space" by Franklin merrell-wolff however for a much more comprehensive overview of this state of being. I'm REALLLY distilling this to make it fit conventional message board formating so pls bear with me if I seem to leave out things. Ultimately, after 7 days of bliss/satori/nirvana/heaven this voice that had been with me the entire time asked me if "I had seen enough" and perhaps because I was so immature and really had no precedent for the entire experience(unless you consider having read Siddartha and journey to the East as a precedent lol)I CHOSE to return to being ME again........BUT, and this is a very big but, the voice said that if I ever wanted to return, that it would always be there for me.......weird or what? I am just now getting that inward call again after several years, it's just amazing to think that this knowledge is already inside of us just waiting to be tapped into......I guess I'll leave it there for now..........



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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Rebirthing experiences on psychedelics [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #670211 - 06/09/02 05:28 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I think "centre of the Cyclone" by John C. Lilly was the first.

An interesting read; however, if he had really discovered something of substance, I doubt he would have become a Ketamine fiend.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Rebirthing experiences on psychedelics [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #670259 - 06/09/02 06:01 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Interesting, to say the least. I'm certain we could continue to add details to the compressed memory files of our transpersonal experiences, but I'll add only this: At one point before fetalizing in bed, the psychic overload, nausea and vomiting was such a hell state, that I considered killing myself. I had new camping gear all around my room because I was planning a road trip out west (I was from NJ). I contemplated opening my veins with a bone-handled Bowie knife. Then...that page20 of BE HERE NOW opened in my mind - the crucifixion picture with the word SURRENDER in large print. So I did. It occurred to me that killing the body might eternalize my hell state, landing me in Hell for eternity. At any rate, I thought I'd just ride out the storm of life 'cause it was gonna end anyway. I'm still here - 29 years later. What a long strange trip it's been.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Rebirthing experiences on psychedelics [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #673411 - 06/11/02 04:58 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: Rebirthing experiences on psychedelics [Re: World Spirit]
    #673431 - 06/11/02 05:07 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for sharing. As you can see by my account, I am the LAST person that could ever doubt another's experience, epspecially the way you have described yours.........the universe sure works in some peculiar ways, doesn't it?


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Re: Rebirthing experiences on psychedelics [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #673466 - 06/11/02 05:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: Rebirthing experiences on psychedelics [Re: World Spirit]
    #673467 - 06/11/02 05:32 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Hey Man, anytime


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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