dblaney said:

I like the idea of life being likened to a dance, as I agree with that to a very large extent.

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Shiva agrees as well.

dblaney said:

I like the idea of life being likened to a dance, as I agree with that to a very large extent. However, his suggestion that the highest goal in life is purely aesthetic I do not agree with. I take issue with this for several reasons.

Beauty is certainly nice and brings with it a certain sense of pleasure and well-being, but it is transient. Remove the beauty, and the sense of pleasure generally goes with it. This quote suggests that the highest goal in life is to strive for sense pleasure, unless his reference to "the dance" is far deeper than it appears out of context like this.

I mean no offense, but it is to some degree immature to live a life based on seeking sense pleasures. Not only is any pleasure derived from the senses inevitably and unavoidably transient, but it ignores the whole other side of life - that of pain, suffering, sorrow, grief, sadness, etc. Such a life is like trying to forget about the left by only going to the right. Of course, when you do this, you just end up going in circles. And indeed, such a life ultimately leads no where, and very often causes suffering and pain for others, and doesn't prepare you in the least for when you do eventually experience pain or loss of some kind, which is inevitable, even if it is only on your death bed (and if it is, just imagine how much worse it would be then). It is, in the end, a selfish life, simply perpetuating confusion and misunderstanding, and creating conditions that will most likely ripen into pain and suffering.

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No offense taken!

I agree you with, but it just frustrates the hell out of me!  I can't tell when I'm being selfish anymore!

It sounds preposterous to say, "I would like to seek liberation", but -- I would!  Recently I have just been experiencing all these synchronicities, imagined or not, that have led me to believe that there are certain paths I must walk, that I am bound to remain in a futile cycle.  My intellect fizzled on this dilemma awhile ago but it keeps trying to make the next step.

I feel that I'm walking on the brink of some amazing revelation and utter futility - and worse, I fear that the answer may be the brink itself, a thing with no self-consistency to speak of!

vigilant_mind said:

I consider a purely aesthetic life to be rather selfish and psychologically dangerous. If one spends an excessive amount of time hidden from the world-- secluded in sterile intellectualism-- one is risking their psychological and social welfare.

However, I'd say a life of about 60% aestheticism along with 40% social interaction would be fine. I definitely agree that a certain amount of aestheticism is paramount to developing one's own study/independent skills, but too much of anything can be bad (e.g. being 100% extroverted). Moderation is key.

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bug said:

vigilant_mind said:

I consider a purely aesthetic life to be rather selfish and psychologically dangerous. If one spends an excessive amount of time hidden from the world-- secluded in sterile intellectualism-- one is risking their psychological and social welfare.

However, I'd say a life of about 60% aestheticism along with 40% social interaction would be fine. I definitely agree that a certain amount of aestheticism is paramount to developing one's own study/independent skills, but too much of anything can be bad (e.g. being 100% extroverted). Moderation is key.

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I think Leary was considering social interaction a plane capable of aesthetic mastery in itself. I don't know if I agree.

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dblaney said:

You're not confusing asceticism and aestheticism are you?

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dblaney said:

I like the idea of life being likened to a dance, as I agree with that to a very large extent. However, his suggestion that the highest goal in life is purely aesthetic I do not agree with. I take issue with this for several reasons.

Beauty is certainly nice and brings with it a certain sense of pleasure and well-being, but it is transient. Remove the beauty, and the sense of pleasure generally goes with it. This quote suggests that the highest goal in life is to strive for sense pleasure, unless his reference to "the dance" is far deeper than it appears out of context like this.

I mean no offense, but it is to some degree immature to live a life based on seeking sense pleasures. Not only is any pleasure derived from the senses inevitably and unavoidably transient, but it ignores the whole other side of life - that of pain, suffering, sorrow, grief, sadness, etc. Such a life is like trying to forget about the left by only going to the right. Of course, when you do this, you just end up going in circles. And indeed, such a life ultimately leads no where, and very often causes suffering and pain for others, and doesn't prepare you in the least for when you do eventually experience pain or loss of some kind, which is inevitable, even if it is only on your death bed (and if it is, just imagine how much worse it would be then). It is, in the end, a selfish life, simply perpetuating confusion and misunderstanding, and creating conditions that will most likely ripen into pain and suffering.

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Quote:

what is this thing that removes beauty?

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Quote:

It's all very conditional.

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Hah, that pretty much sums it all up, doesn't it?  I'm not sure how I feel about it - not that my feelings 'matter', so to speak.