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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics
    #2215939 - 01/03/04 12:58 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

On the way home tonight, I was thinking about something that I study on a regular basis, namely, individuals' personal paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics.

This is different than simple stereotyping.
It's based solely on each individual.

For instance, a few months ago I was sitting at a traffic light...
A minivan pulls up next to me. The driver is wearing a hawaiian print shirt, a trucker cap, Oakley sunglasses from the late 80s, and a cop-style mustache. He was singing along to old, twangy country music; he also did not have a southern accent, which is a tad peculiar. I turned to my friend, free of judgement, and said "that's an interesting aesthetic."

After moments like this, I try to piece it all together... how did he form this aesthetic? What is his lifestyle like when he's not driving around town? What kinds of things does this man believe in? What is his concept of himself?

In my experience, people rarely fit into neat little categories and stereotypes unless they WANT to. And even if they seem to fit a stereotype in one setting, they may not fit it in another setting.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2216143 - 01/03/04 03:41 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I knew I should've put something about aliens in the subject line...


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Registered: 09/13/02
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Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2216204 - 01/03/04 04:39 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

well yeah, people are wierd. and diffrent
but.. like... so what?


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
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Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2216214 - 01/03/04 04:44 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I've noticed this kind of thing as well..... do you have a question or request?

I'll wear one of my hawaiian shirts when I get up tomorrow for ya :smile:


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2216264 - 01/03/04 06:03 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

people rarely fit into neat little categories and stereotypes




I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you on this one...

(premise)
My distant cousin invites me to a party at his house tonight...in the middle of BFE. Everybody I met fit some stereotype to a fuckin' T!

(anecdote)
Some drunk cowboy redneck is entertaining a crowd with nigger jokes..."What's the kkk and nike have in common?"
"yadayadayada I don't like niggers, spics, and chinese people"

This aggrivates me so I ask "Why?'

"I just don't"

"WHY?"

"Boy, you better shut the fuck up unless you wanna step outside."


Hell, everybody I know fits a stereotype...

PEOPLE!

/walks away and gouges his eyes out...


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Posts: 24,855
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Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2216295 - 01/03/04 07:27 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I think people fit into stereotypes when they are low on the intelligence or are at least, I dunno, programmed into the life they live..

I mean, when someone is free to live how they really want and have interests in their own things, for their own reasons, it is when they tend to not fit into little stereotypes...

It has a lot to do with how quick people are to judge others, too. I mean, are those people really fitting into a stereotype perfectly, or are you judging them off a limited experience around them? I mean, what if the drunk cowboy redneck went home to his gay lover at night, and then the next morning he got back to working on his homeade stuffed animals that he likes to sell for cheap to children?

I love it when someone sees my IN FLAMES shirt, the one with the old Jesterhead in all its demonish, hellish glory, and they make a judgement right then and there... I enjoy it. Hell, I'll do things around people like that to purposely set them off.... :evil:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
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Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2216321 - 01/03/04 08:21 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

How many people you can label with stereotypes really depends on the amount of stereotypes you know. It also depends on the degree of accuracy you have in mind. I bet a lot of us here at the Shroomery could be labeled with some kind of stereotype, if they aren't applied too strictly. A person to whom a stereotype perfectly applies would indeed have to lack a bit of intelligence (and low intelligence or shallow stereotypes would befit them) or consciously choose to make a certain lifestyle his/her own.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2216460 - 01/03/04 11:37 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Come to Eugene Or. Sclorch,you will see men in skirts and flannel shirts,crossdressing women(convincing lil bull dykes they are too!)dreadlocks driving huge 4X4's.It's like somone threw all the stereotypes in a jug and shook it out over the willamette valley.Saturday market brings them all out downtown for a freakshow (I mean that in a good way :wink: )Hell the very first time we went some dozen yrs ago my oldest,then about 16,got a good look at a lil girlycue buck naked being led on a leash by another dykish bitch.I know what you mean when you wonder how people blend lifestyles and looks into their own persona.What choices led to those choices?It is a good thing IMHO we are getting far too antlike anyway.So I'm putting on my camo's, my rasta beret,put the four different styles of knife I carry on and jump into my giant ford truck and recycle some holiday crap.Then stop at the natural food store to pick up dinner,maybe tofu tonite?I'll make a stop by my dreadlock freinds house and help him with the deer he just bagged.Then one more stop by my other buddies place (a rabbi) burn a doobie,and talk about our crappy government,then head the hr drive into the woods to my home.How the hell did I mix all those aesthetic paradigms into my lifestyle?A series of choices which buit upon each other till the result is a blend of aesthetics which have adhered to my lifestyle.The human need to express individuality is an interesting instinct,it can make people all want the same look,or it can really bend your mind wrapping aroung all the contradictory signals of appearance.
WR:rasta:


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To old for this place


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Anonymous

Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2216508 - 01/03/04 12:28 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I see you are using the Jamesian definition of the the term 'aesthetic'.  That is no surprise. :wink:

I think this is actually a REALLY deep subject.  I'll try to add what I can.  For one thing stereotypes can be born of emulation.  The best example of this for me comes from my background.  In the early 70's when I underwent a Christian "conversion" I noticed that people in various religious institutions wore the same clothes and acted very much the same way.  After a person experiences that type of spiritual awakening they go to church.  Now, they are wondering, "As a Christian how should I act?  What should I wear?", etc.

And many people mimic what they see the others doing.  This probably is a part of human nature.

In contrast you have people who try to act 'different' as a way of expressing their individuality.  I see this a lot on extroverts.  They wear flashy or 'loud' clothes in an effort to draw attention to themselves.

These days as people are more into themselves than ever before (excuse the hyperbole) they get weirder and weirder in an effort to draw the maximum amount of attention to themselves.

The ego the ego the ego.

Hey, lego my ego.

I notice things around here that seem to symbolize the same thing.  Ever notice someone change avatars and select a very attention drawing one?  Ego  Ever see someone sign their posts?  Ego  Ever see someone create threads like "The *official* blah blah blah"?  Ego.  Ever see someone who has a lot to say about nothing? Ego. Et Cetera, Et cetera, and of course Et Cetera

I am not saying that having a strong ego is a bad thing, not at all.

Further, there are no perfect 'stereotypes'.  Everyone is an individual in some respects.  But that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't categorize people.  Our nature is to generalize.  Without generalizing it would be very difficult to communicate or learn anything.

I hope that adds something.

Cheers,

MM  <----Ego  :shocked:

:lol:


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OfflineGeeno
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Registered: 08/29/03
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Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2216514 - 01/03/04 12:32 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

In reality what I believe it comes down to is there are those suited to lead and those suited to follow. Some people just cant bare the thought of thinking, they assume what they think and try not to question it.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2216664 - 01/03/04 02:29 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I knew I should've put something about aliens in the subject line...

"A minivan pulls up next to me. The driver is a Grey wearing a hawaiian print shirt, a trucker cap, Oakley sunglasses from the late 80s, and a cop-style mustache. He was singing along to old, twangy country music; he also did not have a southern accent, which is a tad peculiar."


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Posts: 6,220
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Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2216783 - 01/03/04 04:00 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I love it when someone sees my IN FLAMES shirt, the one with the old Jesterhead in all its demonish, hellish glory, and they make a judgement right then and there... I enjoy it. Hell, I'll do things around people like that to purposely set them off....




It's kind of petty, but I enjoy it when people make judgements about my intelligence. People usually judge me very low based on my outward appearance and I love it when I can prove them wrong. This happened a lot in engineering school. One time in engineering calculus, the teacher was working a problem on the board and he need the value of root 3 over 2 and I said 0.866, he looks over at me and says "Will someone please use a calculator." Someone was like "He's right!"

Another time in problems solving with C++ we were studying divide and conquer search algorhythims and to demonstrate their efficiency, the professor asked me how many division sequences would be necessary to locate a piece of data in an array allocated to one million. He was expecting me to say some ridiculous number so he could counter with a much smaller number and wow the class, but (keep in mind I'm a sharp kid) I knew that log base 2 of 1000000 was 20, so I retorted twenty, and the teacher looked very disappointed, but he laughed and admitted he thought I was going to say 500 or something.


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


Edited by SpecialEd (01/03/04 04:01 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2217101 - 01/03/04 07:48 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Oh VERY good!  :lol:  I love that!

Swami:  :lol:  Sclorch's line was funny and you added to it.  Does that make your comment extra-extraterrestrial?

:wink:


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: ]
    #2220498 - 01/05/04 02:21 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Well, I suppose the point behind my post wasn't made so clear.

Of course the guy playing the part of the redneck is going to "hate spics and niggers"... but more often than not (as I've come to let myself find out), I've been able to shovel the muck aside and find a vein of individualism. Sometimes it's harder to find it in some and impossible to find it in others, but it's there. I just have to dig a little. Sometimes I only have to use a broom. Sometimes I'll need a backhoe. When the muck is that deep, one has to be careful because the walls of this hole can come crashing down on you and the ol' "fight or flight" defense mechanism kicks in. That can get dangerous.

In any mental dig, gaining trust is the crucial step - keeping it is a close second. Unfortunately, the target mine's perception of the digger renders it impossible to dig a particular head (ie. a dark-skinned person is not going to be able to dig a Neo-Nazi's head).


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2220519 - 01/05/04 02:31 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

You are always going to find good in people the more you get to know them. Also, the more you get to know them, the easier it is to see they are just human.

However, any time I hear a racist using the words
Quote:

spics and niggers


,

I want to destroy them, and vaporize their bodies because I believe the world would be a better place.

It's a judgemental call and I'm making it.


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2220542 - 01/05/04 02:41 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Wht can the dark- skinned person not do it? Maybe they are a psychologist! lol...

hmmmm. must the digging always be personal? Can you not keep a safe distance and yet still learn something from them? Let someone else do the talking, and you make your observation from there?


--------------------
What?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2220548 - 01/05/04 02:46 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I want to destroy them, and vaporize their bodies because I believe the world would be a better place.

Anytime I hear of someone wanting to hurt another no matter the reason, I want to destroy them, and vaporize their bodies because I believe the world would be a better place.  :rolleyes:


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Swami]
    #2220579 - 01/05/04 02:57 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Anytime I hear of someone wanting to hurt another no matter the reason, I want to destroy them, and vaporize their bodies because I believe the world would be a better place.   




Use a bong :bong: bodies don't vaporize worth shit :eek:
WR:rasta:


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To old for this place


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
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Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2220584 - 01/05/04 02:58 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Trying to fight fire with fire? Well your not burning the surrounding underbrush. But these are just words! Surely you would not let words keep you from understanding, would you?

Ive met a lot of people, that more that i got to know them, the worse they are. Im sure babies arent born evil... BUT if there is some spark of good, something in their life of innocence, it must stay in their memory till they die. What would bring it out of them, to make them look at their life?


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What?


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Swami]
    #2220638 - 01/05/04 03:25 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Be a smart ass all you want.

There are some things that I have no tolerance for. There are people who make a lifestyle out of hate. If they all disappeared in one giant flush, the world would be a bette place.

My emotions may be getting the best of me...but I do not care.


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


Edited by SpecialEd (01/05/04 03:30 PM)


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: ]
    #2220741 - 01/05/04 04:17 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

That's interesting thoughts Mr.Mushrooms. You're actually laying out the basis of memetics there. Assuming that the ability to imitate is one of the most basic human traits, and actually what differs us from animals, leads to a very powerful theory on evolution of culture (and on genetic evolution by memtic pressure).

If you replace Schlorchs "paradigms" with "memes", you're already there.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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OfflineDoctorJ
"Nazi, Satanist Anti-Christ"
Male

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Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2221566 - 01/05/04 10:40 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

one of the coolest things about america, IMHO is that it seems to be such a fertile grounds for these strange amalgamations of style. 

People go through different phases of personal interest and circumstance for their entire life and always end up representing themselves as some eclectic collection of these things. 

Maybe the driver of that minivan was a retired trucker who likes to party (hence the snazzy hawaiian shirt).  In the 80's, he was snorting a lot of coke in Houston, Texas.  Not his native town, but its where he picked up his love of country music.  He found the oakley's in a Denny's outside of St. Louis.  He wears a cop mustache because he thinks it makes him look like an action hero. 

But thats just my theory...

Whats even more fun is realizing how you can manipulate the general public with your appearance.  I used to not give a fuck about this.  I was totally ignorant of it, in fact.  I wore whatever I thought looked cool, even if that was purple hair, some cordorouys, a long black coat, and a Tshirt thay said "fuck you" on it.  A lot of people do that shit for attention, or to fit in with some demographic.  I just dug the aesthetics of it.  If I hadn't learned the hard way how badly the idiotic masses can make you suffer for following your own aesthetic (especially if its a little out there), I would probably still dress that way. 

But I've learned that I can do much more for my agenda by being flexible in my appearance and outputting the right signals for the right situation. 

the other day I was in a restaraunt and ran into some old high school accquaintences (everyone's in town for the holidays).  These were some real pretentious pricks that I shared a few AP classes with.  Even though I got the same grades as them, they always looked down on me because they knew I did drugs, the way I dressed, and my anarchic ways.  These guys are like the classic square over-achiever types.  One of them says to me:

"Gee, J, looks like you've really cleaned up your act."

I busted out laughing right on the spot and it took a few moments to stop.  I found it so highly amusing that a haircut and a polo shirt would make him think that.  :wink:


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2221626 - 01/05/04 11:07 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

DoctorJ:Whats even more fun is realizing how you can manipulate the general public with your appearance.... But I've learned that I can do much more for my agenda by being flexible in my appearance and outputting the right signals for the right situation.

You and I have alot in common.
Have you ever tried wearing a suit? It's amazing how much respect a properly-fitting $5 thrift-store suit will bring you.

I could go off on this for hours... I'm a friggin' chameleon.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineDoctorJ
"Nazi, Satanist Anti-Christ"
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2221635 - 01/05/04 11:10 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

its amazing how much respect a $10,000 versace suit that you rented for $100 will get you :wink:


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2221664 - 01/05/04 11:20 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

hehehe


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InvisibleOkEyToKeY
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 88
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics *DELETED* [Re: Sclorch]
    #2221678 - 01/05/04 11:26 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by OkEyToKeY

Reason for deletion: .



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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: OkEyToKeY]
    #2221834 - 01/06/04 12:41 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Blue is associated with Royalty. He is no king, or not a good one at that :wink: .



Sclorch-

I have never tried to make anything really with the way i look, it is just the way i like it to be, one day i may wear my jeans and my brain power tee shirt, while another day i will where all black, my nice shoes, dress pants, black shirt, go out to a club... Makes no change. But it is interesting seeing how interaction feels in that though.

But i always like looking at that though, people project a lot of things, more than im sure they know about when they are just sitting around. But i bet i dont give out very much information at that :wink: .

There are a lot of things you have to consider, it gets easier as you see people start to do different activities, and have different stimuli, u learn a lot faster that way :wink: . Clothes may not always be the best indicator, but by judging from the eclectic dress of the man you described, im sure there is an interesting story, or maybe a lack there of.


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What?


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: OkEyToKeY]
    #2221882 - 01/06/04 01:04 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

OkEyToKeY: Anyone ever notice how during presidential speeches, good ole' George Dubbleyah is the only one wearing a blue tie? Is blue supposed to be associated with something?

Though red is considered to be the color of "the power tie," blue is a close second.
You'll notice that Bush ONLY wears red, blue, a combination of the two, and NEVER yellow (it is considered "weak"). It's amusing as hell.

Try to remember to look at tie color of all the presidential candidates... THEN look at their platform and what angle they're going for.
traditional values/"strong"/epic character - red or blue
"down home"/"the people's man" - yellows, neutral patterns, maybe pastels
"new ideas"/"change" - purple, green, flashier patterns

It's subtle imagery rhetoric... but I suppose some people think it works.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleOkEyToKeY
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 88
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics *DELETED* [Re: Sclorch]
    #2221893 - 01/06/04 01:09 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by OkEyToKeY

Reason for deletion: .



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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: OkEyToKeY]
    #2222229 - 01/06/04 04:09 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

That would be too brash!!!

... Sorry just had to take a punch at the political schlong meisters.


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What?


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: OkEyToKeY]
    #2222230 - 01/06/04 04:09 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

That would be too brash!!!

... Sorry just had to take a punch at the political schlong meisters.


--------------------
What?


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Anonymous

Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2222558 - 01/06/04 10:40 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, I got your point but I wanted to add a few things I thought needed to be said.

murghle: I hadn't considered that but I understand how some could see it that way. This doesn't mean I agree though.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: paradigms and their accompanying aesthetics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2222596 - 01/06/04 10:55 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

interesting...
I had an aesthetic once.
a real one. a good one.

when I was younger...
but now I'm getting older
and the suits are after me
I feel their pull getting stronger

oh well. so much for my aesthetic
I am to become ... one of them
sigh

some people can grow without changing.
not I.

I just wish there were more viable options...


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