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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: Andy21]
    #6582479 -

I am going to assume the Bush administration is lying as my default position.

Maybe they are going to have Colin Powell come out and dust off his slide show?


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: gluke bastid]
    #6590197 -

gluke bastid said:
Banez said:
IMO.. to cut and run would be cowardly and i dont see how Americans would want that.. its just ignorant people who dont care about the innocent people in Iraq... to leave now would be a diaster..


I totally disagree with the idea that cut and run is cowardly. What is cowardly to me is that Americans want to continue to support this war while they sit at home and the soldiers are the ones who are dying. And then of course there are the thousands of Iraqi civilians who are getting killed due to our presence. The cowardice is not being able to admit that we lost in what we set out to do. The cowardice is not being able to admit that the idea of a stable, democratic Iraq was an illusion when this war started about 4 years ago. The cowardice is not being able to admit that if we truly believed that Iraqi citizens should be able to govern themselves democratically, we would have listened to their pleas and withdrawn months ago.

Sending more soldiers to die is not brave, it is stubborn and ignorant.


you do know that im a solider in the US Army, correct.. so please dont assume the opinions of soldiers.. because regardless of what you think, the general consenus is, that we want enough supplies and resources to finish the job.

in your opinion, what would happen if we left Iraq right now.

and to say that a democratic Iraq wouldnt work is nieve.. look at northern iraq, they have a nation-state called Kurbakistan (sp?).. not only is it democratic.. it is US-friendly, has shopping malls, McDonalds is there, and its truely one of the most peaceful places in the middle east, hell English is even taught as a 2nd language.. this is the nation formed by the Kurds.. the people who were gased by Sadaam. i think looking at Kurbakistan alone is proof that there is hope... i guess calling it a separate nation isnt correct since they are still inside iraq and considered Iraq, but the people there think of themselves as people of Kurbakistan and they even have their own flag.


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Banez' PF Tek For Beginners

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: Banez]
    #6590287 -

Your not really a soldier in the army, dude.

You have about as much right to talk about "what soldiers want" as I do.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6590391 -

Madtowntripper said:
Your not really a soldier in the army, dude.

You have about as much right to talk about "what soldiers want" as I do.


How many soldiers do you know?


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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: Banez]
    #6590408 -

Kurdistan*

This concept of honor and cowardice people have is ridiculous, and it doesnt work in warfare.

Lets take a look at the native americans, they were incredibly brave people, however when they bravely charged fixed positions of artillery and repeating rifles they were cut down, you dont see too many of them around anymore.

As far as Kurdistan goes, Peshmerga has been (despite their wishes) sent as backup to Baghdad, and has left a gap in Kurdistan which is to be filled by Sunni and Al Qaeda affiliated insurgents, the provincial government headquarters were overran by fighters in Kirkuk a week ago.

Bush has so poorly ran this war that it will be a inevitable defeat, Since the Americans are so consolidated in a area, it makes it easier for their FOB's to be run over, Like the attack in Tamiyya that killed 2 americans and wounded 17.

Similar to how ING and IP gets overran, simply because they are so small and extended that Rapid Intervention Forces cant reach them in time.

Also notice how the tides will turn with superior air defense capabilities, noticed how this turned the tides against the Soviets in Afghanistan 81-89, funny enough with american supplied Stinger missiles.

The attack of supply lines and fuel trucks has severely limited the strength of Coalition forces.

The loss of aircraft is a tactic of Guerrilla swarming, with SA-7 Grails (strelas) and PKMs and DSHkS (Dushka).

If these tactics are kept up, The americans will forced from Iraq after a few more years, In its place a ever lingering civil war between Shiite and Sunni will persist, and a Temporary Autonomous Zone (TAZ) will be in Kurdistan, allowing for PKU and PKK rebels to launch more attacks on Turkey.

Because of Iraq, their will be persistant war in that region for years upon years to come.

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6590429 -

Madtowntripper said:
Your not really a soldier in the army, dude.

You have about as much right to talk about "what soldiers want" as I do.


how am i not a solider? im enlisted active duty and drill every weekend with other active duty soliders... so i know about 20-30 soliders that im close with, 50-60% of them have already been in Iraq... and i have probably spoke with over 100 active duty soliders over the past 3-4 months that I have been drilling.


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Banez' PF Tek For Beginners

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6590449 -

very informative but i think you have some misinformation.. Kirkuk isnt in provence of Kurdistan. Kirkuk is outside of Kurdistan and the government of Kudistan is sweet talking the US into helping them gain control of the city of Kirkuk since thats where a large oil source lay, and it wouldnt suprise me if we did help them.

Kurdistan is pretty stable.. i dont see why you think its been overrun with insurgency.. unless im reading your post wrong.. Americans openly walk around in Kurdistan without any kind of armor or weapons.. not to mention the Kurdistan has their own army, and a fairly large one.


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Banez' PF Tek For Beginners

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: Banez]
    #6590668 -

You are correct about Kirkuk, however its still largely populated by mostly Kurdish and Sunni muslims. Most Kurds = Sunni's.

Remember though, overran with insurgents doesnt exactly mean what is, This is 4th generation warfare, the combatants are out at night and civilians by day, unless of course their planting ieds.

However Kirkuk has very vulnerable oil infrastructure, which makes it easy for Insurgents to strike at these infrastructure targets.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dcffd421cb

Jaish Al Ansar Al Sunnah also has a large base of operations in Kirkuk, makes it very difficult of IP, and ING forces to control the area.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f2d168b746

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6590753 -

right, i addressed the resource value of kirkuk, thats why i think the kurds are being so cooperative with the US, because as you probably know Kirkok used to be controlled by the kurds, i believe thats actually where sadaam gassed them, not 100% positive about that.

however, from what i hear Kurdistan is very peaceful and free of violence.. im not saying the same of kirkok because i think we both know that that's a major warzone still.. but hopefully with the help of the US, the Kurds can gain control of it.. because the Kurds are a lot easier to deal with than the other religious groups in iraq.

the key in the north is securing Kirkok, which is going to be extremely difficult.

but operation "law and order" in bahgdad has been very successful, i believe not a single american troop has been killed since it begun a little over a week ago.

regardless of the opinion on this board, i think we are closer than people realize to being able to withdrawl from Iraq.

and also im not familiar with the terminology of "IP" and "ING".. are those the militant forces of the area?


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Banez' PF Tek For Beginners

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: Banez]
    #6590842 -

You are correct about Kirkuk and Kurdistan, but the major problem with this is that the Kurds could possibly use their area as a base of operations for launching cross-border attacks in Turkey.

A couple of months ago turkish f16 violated Iraqi airspace and they dropped bombs on PKU positions in Northen Iraq.
If the Kurds keep trying to claim a large part of Turkey, then their will be more violence in the region.



Law and Order has only been going for a couple weeks now, its to early to tell, however 2 americans died yesterday in Baghdad, what Law and Order has accomplished however is their is no longer handcuffed and tortured bodies being found, mainly because most of these killings were by Shiite Militia men who have infiltrated the Interior Ministry and IP, and ING, Mainly the battle of Baghdad is about ethnic enclaves, Baghdad is the focal point for warring Sunni-Shiite tribes.

With the Shiite Militias now being equally targeted by Coalition Forces, it could allow for a regrouping of Sunni insurgents operating in and around Baghdad, Most of the violence is religated to outside areas of Baghdad.

IP stands for Iraqi Police, and ING stands for Iraqi National Guard. Sorry for the confusion.

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6590880 -

thanks for the acronym break down.

just out of curiousity, how are you getting your information.. you seem to be very well informed and ahead of me.. and i thought i was getting information quickly.

i enjoy discussing this with you.. unlike some of the others in here, you seem to know what you are talking about.

although i hadnt heard anything about the kurds wanting to take land in turkey, or there even being tension between turkey and kurdistan.


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Banez' PF Tek For Beginners

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: Banez]
    #6591026 -

Well i appreciate the compliment, I try to bring as much information on this forum to the table as possible, most of it comes from good websites. MEMRI.org, Siteinstitute.org, Globalsecurity.org, Liveleak is a good place for media.

Plus google news usually has something on Iraq everyday. Televised news is the worse place to get information on Iraq though. They seem to just lump every person against the Coalition into Al Qaeda. Its more complicated then that.

Ive been meaning to join the military but i highly disagree with the War in Iraq. Perhaps ill join when im more needed, i guess i can just be a Armchair General for now.

Have you joined the army? Whats your MOS?

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: elbisivni]
    #6593159 -

New Tensions Over Iran's Nuclear Plans
Quote:
The tension over Iran's nuclear programme is increasing, with the expiry on Wednesday of a Security Council deadline for Iran to suspend uranium enrichment.

At the same time, the BBC has reported that the United States has drawn up plans for an attack on Iran to cover two contingencies - the confirmed development of nuclear weapons by Iran, or backing by Iran for a major attack on US troops in Iraq.


Viewpoint: Iranians Speak Out
Quote:
Four Iranians inside Iran respond to questions about their country's nuclear programme - and their president's handling of international concern surrounding it.


Forgive me for providing links to articles and not contributing too much to conversation, the folks around here have much more worthwhile things to say than me on these matters so I prefer to observe.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6594949 -

yeah, i actually leave on monday... my job is "bradley systems maintainer" aka.. diesel tank mechanic.. i make sure them badboys are running smoothly.

and dude.. as you already see.. i talked about how we would be withdrawing sooner than people think because the iraqi's are stepping up.. and what happens yesterday... Britian pulls 1,500 troops out of the south.

now america hasnt gone that far yet, but they are already proposing a time table for withdrawls.. and why not join now?.. even if you signed today.. you wouldnt be ready to do anything for 6 months... im thinking by the time im trained up and ready, we would have already starting withdrawing some troops... now i might be wrong, but thats my guess.


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Banez' PF Tek For Beginners

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Re: Bush Says Iran Is Source of Deadly Bombs [Re: Banez]
    #6595193 -

Thats a good skill you got right there. My friends brother repaired helicopters for the army in Kuwait, and he was the nerdiest fella around, but he made good money doing it.

I dont think you'll need to worry about the action, chances are you probably wont see any. Bush has got a hard on for marines so he usually sticks them in the real bad areas like the Anbar province.

Anbar is like the Khe Sahn of Iraq.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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