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Invisibledaussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
9/11 commision links iran to WTC attacks
    #2900011 - 07/17/04 04:48 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=st...us_attacks_iran
Quote:

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The September 11 commission's report, due out Thursday, says Iran may have facilitated the 2001 attacks on the United States by providing eight to 10 al-Qaeda hijackers with safe passage to and from training camps in Afghanistan, US media reports said.

Time and Newsweek, in similar reports quoting congressional, commission and government sources, said Iran relaxed border controls and provided "clean" passports for the so-called "muscle hijackers" to transit Iran to and from Osama bin Laden's camps between October 2000 and February 2001.

In addition, The New York Times said the commission's report would recommend the creation of a cabinet-level post that would take power from the CIA, FBI, National Security Council and Pentagon to oversee intelligence gathering said to have been lacking before and after the September 11 attacks.

The commission's report says Iran at one point proposed collaborating with al-Qaeda on attacks against America, but bin Laden declined, saying he did not want to alienate his supporters in Saudi Arabia, according to Time.

Newsweek said the Iranian finding in the commission's report is based largely on a December 2001 memo discovered buried in the files of the US National Security Agency.

The memo, according to Newsweek, says "Iranian border inspectors were instructed not to place stamps in the passports of al-Qaeda fighters from Saudi Arabia who were traveling from bin Laden's camps through Iran."

Time said commission investigators "found that Iran had a history of allowing al-Qaeda members to enter and exit Iran across the Afghan border," a practice they said dated back to October 2000.

Iranian officials, Time said, issued "specific instructions to their border guards ... not to put stamps in the passports of al-Qaeda personnel and otherwise not harass them, and to facilitate their travel across the frontier."

"The new discovery about Iran's assistance to al-Qaeda," said Newsweek, "is among the most surprising new findings" in the 500-page report compiled by the non-partisan commission.

Former White House counter-terrorism adviser Richard Clarke, who in a recent book said President George W. Bush's administration was obsessed with involving Iraq in the attacks and had ignored intelligence on Iran, told Newsweek the commission's report confirms that.

The day after the attacks, Clarke said in his book, Bush told him: "See if Saddam (Hussein) did this. See if he's linked in any way."

Although there was no evidence linking Iraq to the attacks, Newsweek quoted Clarke as saying "there were lots of reasons to believe (al-Qaeda) was being facilitated by elements of the Iranian security services. We told the president that specifically. The best evidence we had of state support (for al-Qaeda) was Iran."

Time said the Iranian offer to collaborate with al-Qaeda to attack America was made after the October 2000 suicide bombing of the USS Cole, which killed 17 US sailors as the ship was being refueled in Yemen.

"But the offer," said the weekly, "was turned down by bin Laden because he did not want to alientate his supporters in Saudi Arabia."

Time said much of the new information about Iran "came from al-Qaeda detainees interrogated by the US government, including captured Yemeni al-Qaeda operative Waleed Mohammed bin Attash, who organized the ... attack on the USS Cole."

The New York Times, meanwhile, said the intelligence czar proposal would likely meet fierce opposition from the Pentagon and the Central Intelligence Agency, "which would have to cede significant authority over the government's estimated 40-billion-dollar intelligence budget and other policy matters."

Under the proposal, the CIA director, who now reports directly to the White House, would have to go through the new national intelligence director, the Times quoted one official as saying.

Democratic presidential contender John Kerry made a similar proposal on Friday, saying: "We need to create a true director of national intelligence with the ability to manage and direct the myriad components of the intelligence community."

The post, Kerry said in a statement issued by his campaign, should include "authority over the budget, operations, personnel and the exchange of information."



Well, 'n' kind of looks like a 'q'....if you were a god damn idiot. So I wonder if bush is going to say "Oops, I'm sorry Iraq, we bombed the fuck out of the wrong country."


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: 9/11 commision links iran to WTC attacks [Re: daussaulit]
    #2900089 - 07/17/04 05:16 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

With the Iraqi oil pipeline leaking like a sieve, we DO need some fresh oil, so...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: 9/11 commision links iran to WTC attacks [Re: daussaulit]
    #2900109 - 07/17/04 05:22 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

It begins.  :rolleyes:


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: 9/11 commision links iran to WTC attacks [Re: daussaulit]
    #2900128 - 07/17/04 05:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Fuckin WAR, FUCKING WAR, WAAAAAR, no mercy, kill anyone who fucks with US.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: 9/11 commision links iran to WTC attacks [Re: daussaulit]
    #2900177 - 07/17/04 05:37 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well, 'n' kind of looks like a 'q'....if you were a god damn idiot.

So if they had been called "Iraqistan" or better yet, the antiquated "Persia"...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (07/17/04 05:42 PM)


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OfflineAldous
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Re: 9/11 commision links iran to WTC attacks [Re: daussaulit]
    #2900195 - 07/17/04 05:40 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Time said commission investigators "found that Iran had a history of allowing al-Qaeda members to enter and exit Iran across the Afghan border," a practice they said dated back to October 2000.


Haha, you could almost replace 'Iran' by 'the US' and 'Afghan border' by 'Atlantic ocean' in that sentence.

"Let's aim those nukes at the Pentagon and Langley, Dick, it's closer to home and it won't stir up as much international fuss..."  :crazy2:


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OfflineSource
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Re: 9/11 commision links iran to WTC attacks [Re: daussaulit]
    #2901345 - 07/18/04 02:00 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yup...get ready for the next 'blow' (probably something like a 'dirty bomb' or plague) as they freshen up the U.S. citizen's wounds, whip 'em into a fury and unleash it on Iran.

Time to WAKE UP!


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Lessons in Contradiction [Re: Source]
    #2901596 - 07/18/04 04:29 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Here are some useful thoughts that I have learned from Anti-Bush liberals. The first section is best displayed in a multiple choice format. You get to pick your favorite choice, the only caveat is that you always abide by the rule to blame America first.

A) George Bush planned to invade Iraq all along, even before 9-11.
B) America is failing in Iraq because George Bush never had a plan.

Plan? No Plan? Plan? No Plan?

A) George Bush is an idiot.
B) George Bush is diabolical mastermind who?s grand scheme rivals only Hitler himself.

Idiot? Mastermind? Idiot? Mastermind?

One of the reasons why it is difficult to debate you people is that you constantly contradict each other and you never have a common theme. Any excuse to both hate America and hate George Bush goes unchecked amongst the faithful circle of true believers.

The country of Iran is not a friendly nation to America by any means. Most Americans would consider them an enemy. We don't have diplomatic relations with them. This stems from the fact that they invaded our embassy and took everyone hostage in the Carter administration. The distrust has also been enhanced by the fact that they have funded terrorist activities against at least one of our allies in Israel.

This report stated that we have reason to believe that Iran worked in concert with Al Qaeda. Not only does evidence implicate that they helped facilitate the 9-11 attacks, but "The commission's report says Iran at one point proposed collaborating with al-Qaeda on attacks against America, but bin Laden declined, saying he did not want to alienate his supporters in Saudi Arabia, according to Time."

So let me get this straight. We have information that Iran wanted to collaborate in killing Americans. The natural reaction for you people is "How can I blame America and the Bush Administration". Where is the outrage about Iran? We buried 3000 people because of 9-11. They are cold, dead and in the ground. People still mourn the loss, and I still can't look at a plane in the air without remembering the tragedy. We get information about people that helped make this come about, and some people's first reaction is to see how bad they can make America look.

I think that a tell tale sign is that you guys never argue with each other even though you propose alternative theories. As long as the other guy is Anti-America and Anti-Bush, the claims go undisputed.

First guy says that Bush is such an idiot that he didn't know the difference between Iraq and Iran. He claims that we attacked the wrong country. Be careful though, don't confuse this to actually believe that he wants us to attack Iran, even though today's evidence implicates them in both helping to kill and wanting to kill us. The same goes for the people that say "Why didn't we attack North Korea, they are the real threat". Those people don't actually want us to attack North Korea, they just want to say that we should of to blame America and attack Bush. It is disingenuous because had we actually attacked North Korea like they asked for, they would have been up in arms in a huge pissy fit.

The second guy says it is all about Oil. I guess the fact that the Iranian government wanted to kill Americans doesn't matter one bit. We just want to invade the peace-loving-America-hating-pacifists that are actively working to develop nuclear weapons in Iran because of Oil. Sounds logical to me.

The third guy claims that this is how it begins, which is a reference to "Adolf" Bush's diabolical master plan to take over the entire free world, one nation at a time.

Another guy comes along later and proposes to simply aim the nukes at ourselves, because we have to be just as guilty as those who actively conspired to kill us.

And the last guy seems to implicate that we engineered these attacks ourselves in the first place, and that phase 2 is another attack on ourselves to justify the attack on Iran.

All these people have conflicting versions of reality, but they don't debate the differences. Some analogies if I may; it is as if you throw as much shit as possible at a wall just to see what sticks. You run something up the flag pole and see which way the wind is blowing. Maybe it is more like a contest to see which person can tell the most believable big lie.

It doesn't matter. You are all in agreement in that you blame America and hate George Bush. The mere fact that you don't even try to contest one another?s contradictory claims proves the bitter partisanship involved in these public displays.

And by blaming America, I have in fact implicitly suggested that your first gut reaction is unpatriotic. This will lead me to be inundated by people that think that inference is an insult. Apparently the first amendment protects people that blame America at every instance, but it doesn't protect people that call bullshit to their inherent America hating self loathing idiosyncrasies.

And by the way, I am a binge drinker and I am on a roll. Don?t stop me now. If I pissed any of you off too much I apologize, and if I didn?t piss you off enough then screw you. That is my happy medium.

Maybe, just maybe Iran is evil and they did everything they could to conspire to kill us. Don?t take that thought lightly my friends. That is a serious issue. I am shocked that nobody on this thread ever thought for one moment to condemn them. It makes sense though in a way. We don?t blame people in our own society for their problems, we blame society itself. I guess it shouldn?t surprise me then that when problems arise the socialist element will always look to find us the culprit.

Lucky for you, I just ran out of beer, smokes, and words. See you next time, same bat time, same bat channel.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Lessons in Contradiction [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2901681 - 07/18/04 05:45 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

George Bush is diabolical mastermind who?s grand scheme rivals only Hitler himself.

Idiot? Mastermind? Idiot? Mastermind?

One of the reasons why it is difficult to debate you people is that you constantly contradict each other and you never have a common theme.


Contradiction?

Hitler was both a political genious (he took over much of Europe without a single battle!) AND a self-destructive egomaniac (he did not listen to his generals and believed he had some sort of fate or divine force guiding him).

I guess in your world people are one-dimensional paper cut-outs.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,751
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Re: Lessons in Contradiction [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2901737 - 07/18/04 06:44 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yes Jesus, hypocrisy, exaggeration, omission, and hatred runs free here.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Lessons in Contradiction [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2902143 - 07/18/04 01:03 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You are completely right man, some liberals on here and most of the anti-bush people always try to find something to piss on, anything.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Lessons in Contradiction [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2902234 - 07/18/04 01:34 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

What would you charge for exaggeration?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineAldous
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Re: Lessons in Contradiction [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2902580 - 07/18/04 03:13 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Damn... I second Swami on this one: things seem VERY one-dimensional in your world.
Quote:

JesusChrist said:
A) George Bush planned to invade Iraq all along, even before 9-11.
B) America is failing in Iraq because George Bush never had a plan.


A and B. A because he and his administration wanted to take hold of the country all along (this is fact, or do you think people like Richard Clarke are outright liars?), and B, because all they were interested in was the war, the oil and the domination, but they completely forgot about serious nation building (which is always a joke anyway under US colonialism). A and B, can you fathom that?
Quote:

A)  George Bush is an idiot.
B)  George Bush is diabolical mastermind who?s grand scheme rivals only Hitler himself.


A and B, in a way. George Bush himself is an idiot, but as a president, surrounded by his diabolical administration (with Rumsfeld, Cheney, Perl and Wolfowitz up front), he becomes a diabolical mastermind. So as a person, A, in his political action, B. Get it?
Quote:

The country of Iran is not a friendly nation to America by any means.  Most Americans would consider them an enemy.  We don't have diplomatic relations with them.  This stems from the fact that they invaded our embassy and took everyone hostage in the Carter administration.


It also might have to do with previous events. Before the Islamic Revolution, even before the Shah, Iran had a secular democratic regime. But the democratically elected prime minister, Mohammed Mossadegh, decided to nationalize the oil industry, like any sovereign country would be entitled to control its resources. The US hated this, made the CIA organize a coup to overthrow Mossadegh in 1953, and reinstated the Shah for a bloody 25-year rule (yes, with torture and without democracy... Saddam avant la lettre, you might say). So maybe the embassy story wasn't the first breach of harmony after all. Read up on your history.
Quote:

This report stated that we have reason to believe that Iran worked in concert with Al Qaeda.  [etc.]


You mean the same kind of report from the same kind of intelligence people who made Fox reporters believe there were WMD in Iraq? Remember? They even had pictures of them. Unfortunately, they can be seen much easier from space than from the ground. :rolleyes: And you actually believe your government and its intelligence services, even after the WMD hoax? Man, you're a joke.

Just as a conclusion, your post obviously shows you don't know anything at all about the US's role in the world in the last century, and that's why you blame everything bad on foreign nations. Try to read history, not to swallow propaganda (I agree, it ain't that easy in your country, but it's perfectly possible).


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Invisibleretread
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Registered: 07/14/04
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Re: Lessons in Contradiction [Re: Aldous]
    #2902712 - 07/18/04 03:53 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


Damn.. I second Swami on this one: things seem VERY one-dimensional in your world.




I believe that our lord and savior was just showing the one-dimensionality of the land of liberals.
Quote:


A and B. A because he and his administration wanted to take hold of the country all along (this is fact, or do you think people like Richard Clarke are outright liars?), and B, because all they were interested in was the war, the oil and the domination, but they completely forgot about serious nation building (which is always a joke anyway under US colonialism). A and B, can you fathom that?




If one choice is a negative that directly counteracts the other, then they can't both possibly be true. Richard Clarke is one person. Why do you believe the one person that happens to support your position and ignore the tens of thousands that contradict his claim? Is it becase you are one sided, as JC was trying to illustrate with his posting?
Quote:


It also might have to do with previous events.




I wonder if you'll do just what JC suggested, and ignore the negative actions of the other people, and make the USA into the bad guys?
Quote:


Before the Islamic Revolution, even before the Shah, Iran had a secular democratic regime. But the democratically elected prime minister, Mohammed Mossadegh, decided to nationalize the oil industry, like any sovereign country would be entitled to control its resources. The US hated this, made the CIA organize a coup to overthrow Mossadegh in 1953, and reinstated the Shah for a bloody 25-year rule (yes, with torture and without democracy... Saddam avant la lettre, you might say).
[/quote
Ahah! I knew it!
Quote:


You mean the same kind of report from the same kind of intelligence people who made Fox reporters believe there were WMD in Iraq? Remember? They even had pictures of them. Unfortunately, they can be seen much easier from space than from the ground. And you actually believe your government and its intelligence services, even after the WMD hoax? Man, you're a joke.




When the 9/11 commission said that Iraq had no ties, I'm sure that you used that as a reason to hate Bush even more. Now that the same comission says that Iran may have had ties, you'll question everything about them. I wonder why that is? Could it be the singularism that JC was referring to?
Quote:


Just as a conclusion, your post obviously shows you don't know anything at all about the US's role in the world in the last century, and that's why you blame everything bad on foreign nations. Try to read history, not to swallow propaganda (I agree, it ain't that easy in your country, but it's perfectly possible).




I think that his post shows exactly what you just did. Thinking with the mindset that the USA is always wrong, making double standards, using only evidence that supports your position and ignoring all evidence that doesn't.


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OfflineAldous
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Re: Lessons in Contradiction [Re: retread]
    #2902781 - 07/18/04 04:22 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Richard Clarke is one person. Why do you believe the one person that happens to support your position and ignore the tens of thousands that contradict his claim?


I wonder who those tens of thousands are... I tend to believe a guy who was at the heart of decision-making on terrorism, and who is no longer bound by the duty to parrot the usual propaganda. Are your "tens of thousands" as well informed and close to Rummy and Wolfie as he was? Are they devoid of obvious interest in saying this Iraq wasn't a target from day 1 (or day 2 or 3, I won't argue on that)?
Quote:

Ahah! I knew it!


Was I wrong? Are there factual mistakes in my Mossadegh story? I wasn't bashing America btw, this was a very thouroughly led intelligence operation which deserves only admiration.  :grin:
Stop talking about bashing when I'm talking about facts. Am I bashing Charles Manson when I say he killed five people? Did you see how Bush "bashed" Saddam before the war, reminding the world of his bloody dictatorship?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lessons in Contradiction [Re: Aldous]
    #2902893 - 07/18/04 05:04 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Richard Clark is the man who gave the order to put the Bin Laden family on planes and get them out of the country immediately following 9/11. This was exposed by others. Where was his voice when M. Moore was accusing Bush and Co. of spiriting out his oil cronies? Why didn't this cunt stand up and say, "this criticism of Bush is wrong since it was I, and only I, who gave the order, which I was fully empowered to give"? And Wilson has been found by the Brits and the 9/11 commission to be full of shit

The 9/11 commision did not say that Iraq had no ties to Al Qaeda or other terrorists, it said Iraq had no ties to the events of 9/11. Not the same thing. And as to Iran having a role in the attacks, can anyone say "Next?"


--------------------


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Lessons in Contradiction [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2903375 - 07/18/04 08:37 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

It's significant that it was Clark who gave the order to get the Bin Laden's and other Saudi's out of the country in the days following 9/11...but I think there's something wrong with the idea that it was only Clark who gave the order.

Would he really have had the authority to request such an action? Wouldn't he have needed approval in some form from those higher up?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lessons in Contradiction [Re: trendal]
    #2903422 - 07/18/04 08:58 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

he absolutely had the authority to do it on his own. Frankly, I didn't think it was a big deal or even wrong to do, just in terms of protecting these people from vigilantes. But the fuck stick Moore thought it was a conspiracy and the cunt Clark wouldn't stand up and cop to it. Fuck them both


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Lessons in Contradiction [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2903761 - 07/18/04 11:28 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

That's kind of scary that he would have that kind of authority when he's not even a part of the FAA, isn't it?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Lessons in Contradiction [Re: trendal]
    #2903787 - 07/18/04 11:40 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

What has any of this got to do with the FAA?

pinky


--------------------


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