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OfflineRoger_irrelevant
War's boring,change thechannel!

Registered: 11/22/01
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Low dose meditation tips please.
    #633810 - 05/17/02 02:15 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I've never really had reason to low dose in the past, always opting for complete dissolution but I would like to try some meditative psychedelic techniques...err but I don't know any ! Help me out with links, advice or anything you feel I may need to know.


--------------------
We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams...


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OfflineTwistedRedneck
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #633869 - 05/17/02 05:01 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

well, since i ate 3 grams last night and almost experienced total egoloss (my roomate came in to check on me and it kinda screwed with my meditative state) ill tell ya what worked for me.

Headphones, empty, room darkness... I had Shpongle playing on my headphones (the kind with that cover ur ears - being able to hear nothing but the music is definately a key). I laid on my back in the middle of an empty white room in my apartment. Only thing in this room other than me and a portable discman is my disco light ball thingy, has two colored balls that spin and rotate. I just stared at the ceiling with the lights moving and tuned into the music. Closing my eyes after a few i concetrated on finding what i like to call "the void" - a state of pure nothingness. I repeat words like "nothing" or "pure" over and over in my head. After a while i didnt even see the disco lights anymore, just the white walls and ceiling. Then *POOF* i was transported somewhere far far away :-)

Some say total darkness helps, but not for me... i like to have something to focus on, the globe light on the ceiling is what i stared at. It wasnt on, and the reflection of the disco ball lights on it kept my attention away from anything else.


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Anonymous

Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #633947 - 05/17/02 07:00 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Gently explore the sounds of a musical instrument, preferably and acoustic one. Concentrate on the various tones produced, the timbre of the particular instrument.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #633967 - 05/17/02 07:28 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #634130 - 05/17/02 10:24 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

1. Assume a meditative position. The spine must be straight and the respiritory system must be at maximum efficiancy (ie. trachia straight, nose clear, etc..).

2. Completely "still" the body. Do this, not by becoming rigid but buy relaxing the body into perfect stasis. At this point it will feel like a type of "paralysis" is setting in. This is normal and you will still be able to move if you want to.

3. Focus on the breath. Inhale deeply for a count of 4 and hold it gently for as long as possible. Then exhale for a count of 8. You exhale longer so as to retain the "energy" that you feel from breathing. Gradually increase the interval (ie. 8:16, 16:32, ...).

4. Allow your mind to become completely still (no thinking whatsoever). This is the most difficult part. You will know when effects are achieved.

5. Visualize a familiar symbol before you. A good symbol is the creasent of the moon or a tribal sun design. It should be something that you can associate a more profound meaning with. Do this until all of your concentration is focused and the symbol becomes vividly clear.

6. Finally, "open" the symbol as if it were a curtain or door and allow your mind to enter through it. Feel free to explore the other side!


--------------------
:egyptian:


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #634187 - 05/17/02 10:58 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

When I enter a trip, I like to imagine myself as a sort of exploratory probe being sent into a strange world. I do a systems check of my five senses.

The probe game doesn't last long, but staying mindful of all five senses does. Give each one special attention.

These are only a few ideas:
Smell: A basket of fresh herbs is awesome. So is incense, of course.
Sight: I prefer to be in nature for mushrooms, so finding something to stimulate this sense is never a real problem. However, a magifying glass and/or a small mirror come in handy. A jeweler's loop is really nice.
Sound: I like evolving's idea about a musical instrument.
Touch: I haven't discovered anything for touch that really stands out. Feeling my face or the bones in my hand is cool.
Taste: Oh, man, where do I begin. That basket of fresh herbs is good. Just a nibble is all it takes. And be a chef, use fresh everything, and you'll be in heaven.

The senses are liaisons between life and the soul.

peace,
hongomon


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #638172 - 05/20/02 06:22 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

A simple technique that I have found in both Theravadin Buddhist and Orthodox Christian Hesychastic literature has to do with the practice of following the breath from the tip of the nose, to the space at the bridge of the nose (third eye), to the center of the brain, to the crown of the head (where the 'breath' is now 'visualized' as light), down through the head, through the throat center, to the heart center (which fills with light). This is also an abbreviated version of the Tibetan Buddhist Yoga of the Inner Fire that begins at the navel center, but the important thing is the practice of 'bringing the mind into the heart.' In the Tibetan Yoga, the head, throat and heart centers, when transformed by transpersonal [enlightenment] energies, are attributed the syllables OM-AH-HUM respectively.

The Theravadin practice does not utilize seed syllables, and the Hesychastic practice uses the Prayer of the Heart [the Jesus Prayer]: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God [inhalation], have mercy on me [exhalation]." The Catholic Sacred Heart image with Crown [head] of Thorns surrounding an illuminated Heart, illustrates this bringing the Head (Awareness/Consciousness/Wisdom) into a transpersonal Heart Center. The Eternal Witness then operates from this Compassion Center, around which our human personality can constellate. The Divine Indwelling, received from 'on High,' [i.e., the Head Center] like the 'tongues of 'flame' described in the Biblical Pentacost, descends through the Throat Center (of Knowledge Holding deities in Tibetan system; manifested in glossolalia [speaking in tongues in the Christian system]; and comes to dwell in the Heart Center. Sacred Heart in Catholicism; Heart Cave [Hridayam] in Hinduism; Diamond Body [Dorje/Vajra] in Tibetan Buddhism; City of Jade in Taoist Yoga; Tiphereth in Jewish Kabbalism - you get the point. Peace.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinelof
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #638593 - 05/21/02 04:14 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

buy the book "Meditation - the art of extasy" by OSHO (more info about him - osho.com)
It's full of medative techniques and a lot of explanation so you can choose the method that best fits you.
I'll also reccomend all of his books


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #638603 - 05/21/02 04:26 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #638698 - 05/21/02 06:28 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

This is what I do, which works for me. It took several years of practice to get good at it, but is well worth it to me.

1) be by yourself unless the others that are with you are meditating also
2) take a low dose if you are taking anything at all
3) find a dimly lit, safe, and quiet place that you can sit without being distrurbed. I always sit facing a wall, about three feet away. If the wall has some kind of texture to it even better. I usually fall asleep if I have total darkness, so dim lighting is the best. Low music or natural sounds are good for drowning out street noise, etc.
4) sit in a relaxed and comfortable position. The full lotus offers the best support, but is difficult and painful at first
5) sit and calm yourself. Take a few deep breaths and feel your lungs expand and contract. Let all your stress flow out with each breath you take. Keep your eyes open and let your gaze fall on the wall, near the floor.
6) sway slightly back and forth (left to right) and feel your spine, neck, and head. With each sway, reduce how far out you go. When you finally stop, your head, neck, spine should all be in line with a balanced feeling. The back of your neck will feel a bit stretched and your spine will be curved inward a bit near the small of your back.
7) touch the tip of your tongue to the top of your mouth just behind your front teeth. This reduces the flow of saliva in the mouth.
8) now the real meditation starts up... start to breath in slow deep breaths. Feel the air rushing in and out at the tip of your nose. Blink when you need to, swallow when you need to, but always continue to breath slow deep breaths. No matter what happens, always return to taking slow deep breaths.
9) stop thinking. Let you mind go blank. Deep breaths, no thought. If a thought comes into your head, just let it go like a dream. Don't scold yourself or think about what you are trying to do... just let go of the thought and breath. Deep breaths... Don't bother counting or focusing on an image or anything else... let go of thoughts and breath...

After about 15 minutes of this you will start to notice some odd changes. The room will suddenly get dark, or get very bright. The wall might start to breath with you, or it may start to move away from you or seem to get closer. The textures in the wall will start to dance around. If you think about anything you are seeing, it will immedately cease and you will have to start over...

Once you learn to let the oddness happen without thinking about it or trying to make it happen, you can begin to loose yourself. The patterns and everything else will engulf you, or perhaps you them... if you are still thinking, you will panic and have to start over. If thought has left you, then your journey is about to begin... the illusions the ego builds up to protect itself drop away and you see yourself and the world for what they really are... of course you aren't aware of it any more than you are aware of a dream. At some point you will be shot out of a cannon back to reality.

As you get better at this, you can learn to stop thinking while doing everyday activities. Instead of getting annoyed standing in lines, you can simply quit thinking. Time stops and all the stresses that are bothering you go with it.

Remember, being on the path means nothing if you don't walk it.

Whenever you become aware of thinking, start to breath again and let the thoughts drain from your mind. Don't try to do anything... just be and let what happens happen.



--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: World Spirit]
    #638727 - 05/21/02 07:22 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

hmm...
well, some christians are willing to find scripture warning against "vain repetition"...
but in many of the eastern orthodox tradtions, the prayer of the heart has as long and honored history...
(see the book about a russian christian seeker _the way of a pilgrim_ for much more information about this subject...)
~
"lord christ jesus son of god have mercy on me a sinner"
~
greek orthodoxy & many other orthodox churches have methods that western churches (roman catholic & protestant) have either forgotten or eliminated... but many are starting to rediscover; also old meditative techniques such as walking the labyrinth, self-emptying, and christian yogic and healing practices...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #638731 - 05/21/02 07:25 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

ih, and a book for general meditive techs... (esalen conspirator) bernard gunther had a wonderful book called _what to do until the messiah comes_ filled with solo and group "activities"
...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: World Spirit]
    #639373 - 05/21/02 04:35 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

With similarities to contemplative practices from other faiths, the Hesychastic (Hesychia=tranquility) tradition centered on Mt. Athos, Greece for a thousand years has a long and esteemed mystical history. As gnrm23 mentioned, 'The Way of a Pilgrim' and 'A Pilgrim Continues His Way,' written by an anonymous Russian seeker (about Thessalonians statement attributed to Paul: "Pray without ceasing"), and edited by R.M. French, is a readable account of the Hesychastic tradition. If you like, go to Borders Books and Music and look into 'Writings From the Philokalia on Prayer of the Heart' by Kadloubovsky & Palmer, Faber & Faber Pub. Philokalia is a collection of techniques for such prayer (Philo=Love of / Kalia=Beauty/Truth).

This is not about 1) prayer of thanksgiving, 2) petitionary prayer 3) intercessory prayer. It is about 4) contemplative prayer in the Eastern Orthodox tradition. It is a form of 'psychospiritual scaffolding' as it were, using bodily postures, breathing, and concentration on the transpersonal center of the Heart in order to enjoin the 'whole man' in prayer of a contemplative order. Contemplation transcends discursive or dialogue communication with the Divine Personality. It seeks communion or union with the Godhead. It is of the essence of Christian mysticism.
Beyond God-with-attributes, is the Godhead. This is utterly ineffable, incomprehensible, and the object of contemplation in all of the high religions, howsoever it is Named. There is nothing insincere here. This is the 'Mysterium Tremendum et Fascinans,' as called by Rudolph Otto in 'The Idea of the Holy.' The Source of Holiness +++


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #639997 - 05/22/02 07:45 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

at a catholic charismatic house group meeting a couple decades ago, we did a "make room in your heart" exercise... a bit more ummm "busy" that the prayer of the heart, but... we quieted way down, centered our focus, and opened up a little room in our hearts, cleaned it well, and made it ready for jesus to come and live there... it was a very interesting meditation exercise, lemme tell ya...
~
as to the "godhead" --- aldous huxley's wonderful compilation of quotes & commentaries _the perennial philosophy_ uses mostly western religious writers to examine the nature of the divine essence that is behind the "father, son, & holy spirit" of the christian trinity... ummmm, lesse, william law, meister eckhart, maybe st john of the cross, jakob boehme, st teresa, & a few other christian mystics, several others... (it's been a while since i've read my copy...)
~
& like markos said, there is (or at least, can be) more to christian prayer than:
thanks
gimme
& help
...there can be also :
well, here we are together again...
~
heh
~
shalom
~
~


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


Edited by gnrm23 (05/22/02 07:50 AM)


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: World Spirit]
    #640121 - 05/22/02 09:07 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

An enlightened seeker can use any system of theology to his/her benefit, because they are all related.

I have not educated myself fully on the christian trinity but it seems as though it is a permutation of the jewish tetragrammaton. It appears that the feminine aspect is removed and termed "the holy spirit" to add another layer of mystery to the underlying idea. I know this is off-topic but i was wondering what the thoughts of some of the more educated christians are on this subject.


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:egyptian:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: gnrm23]
    #640480 - 05/22/02 01:41 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Greetings gnrm23 -
I've been thinking about you lately since I finally picked up The Perennial Philosophy that's been sitting here since a former girlfriend gave it to me in '94 (2nd ed., 1945). I have 3 pages to go, and it's like the last blob of fudge on the plate after a slice of fine chocolate cake, an' you don't want to finish it. I read my first Huxley in high school, and several volumes since then, but THIS is where I appreciated his genius. I see why you keep recommending it.

I was reading Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now, concurrently, and felt at certain points that he lifted concepts directly from Huxley. I'd open and cross-reference the pages. By the way, if you haven't read Tolle's book, it is a real gem - sharp, clear, simple, practical, and a real joy as well.

Nice to see you on the phosphors again! Peace.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineNomad
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Registered: 04/30/02
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #641216 - 05/23/02 04:57 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)



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Anonymous

Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #641840 - 05/23/02 02:11 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

-Rodger,
I low-dose most times.
I find a long train ride or bus ride is a good way to enter states of meditation. As long as it is not rush hour.
If you look at the people, deep philosophical answers may arise, to questions you may have had, but forgot with the worriesof the Real World.
A long layout on a lounge chair while looking up at the sky allows you to faze out and tune in to your Mind.



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: Catalysis]
    #642038 - 05/23/02 04:57 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Tertullian, who first developed the doctrine of the trinity, eventually joined a heretical sect of Christians called Montanists, yet, his doctrine continued to be elaborated and explicated by the greatest minds of the early Church, like Augustine of Hippo and Dionysus the Areopagite. The doctrine developed as a consequence of the 3 major Names for God in the NT, and a plethora of 'wrong' interpretatiosn or heresies followed. he Catholic and Orthodox Churches split over a battle on the 'Filioque,' whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son (Western Catholic); or whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son, Who proceeds from the Father. Actual warfare over this!

This doctrine developed more through NeoPlatonic lines than anything Hebraic. I once asked Jewish philosopher Adin Steinsaltz about the Trinity and the Kabbalistic Tree, and he glibly said, 'which trinity - there are several?,' at which time I simply moved on, as he was not the least bit interested in having a dialogue with someone interested in Christian theology. The Tetragrammaton is aMedieval overlay to supposed OT mysteries, i.e., that Solomon knew how to pronounce the Divine Name, the Shemhemforash, and thereby commanded the demons to build his temple (since supposedly metal tools were not used to cut the stone).

Bottom line is that Trinitarian thought, though alledged to have a basis in Genesis (because the Name of God was "Elohim," which indicated plurality) is pretty much a Hellenistic thing. It was not used by Y'shua Himself, nor Paul, nor any of the writers of scripture. Theologian John MacQuarrie has written a terrific modern interpretation using philosophical categories. The essential idea is that three-ness indicates a dynamism, a 'movement-in-stasis,' rather than a monolithic oneness which seems somehow inert, albeit, Eternal. The inner life of the Trinity is referred to as the Divine Economy, and is not intended to convey polytheism. Una Substantia Tres Personas - One Substance in Three Persons. Much more than this it is useless to describe.

From a Jungian point of view 3 is incomplete and hence dynamic, and the mind wants wholeness, as symbolized by a quaternity. The doctrine of the Bodily Ascension of Mary established in Catholicism in 1950 is a half-measure to suggest a feminine element admitted to the Trinity, though the Holy Spirit has sometimes filled that position (HS=Wisdom=Sophia).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Low dose meditation tips please. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #642048 - 05/23/02 05:03 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Wow, thank you for that plethora of knowledge. You answered many of the questions that i had about the trinity.


--------------------
:egyptian:


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