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What you should Know about death
    #6196204 -

This has been in a lot of topics latley and I'd really like to share my bit.

I personally know that there are things that can show you death and beyond. I don't believe it, I know this and speak from my own experience. If you want to know what death is like - there is a way. It would have been stupid for whoever designed this place (us) to leave us with all these questions and no way to answer them besides abstract speculation and endless debate (a waste of time and hence life experience). Of course there are answers because we created this place for our Selves to have this experience and would not leave our Selves hanging. Wether or not these death experiences are 'real' or not is for you to decide when you experience it, but in my experience there was no doubt...it was "here we go, I'm gonna die" and then "THIS IS DEATH. YOU'VE ASKED FOR IT SO HERE IT IS. ARE YOU SURE THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT?" "No! Live! I will never be unhappy again I promise! I WANT TO LIVE!" My entire life would have been a waste to die right then. And as soon as that fucking eternity passed I became aware of my body again and was nothing but smiles for days.

Perhaps we are wired to have this experience...but there would be a reason for that...it was undeniably real in my experience...and I have been back there again since. I was not contained by my body anymore. I felt free as could be. I became everything but maintained my individual thoughts. As quick as I would think something it would be. I can still see my lifeless body crumpled on the ground while I was flying around it at the speed of thought. It was terrifying but it was an experince I needed.

I can tell you that death is not bad. There is much more too it than I have written about here. For truley it is infinite. It is a return, not an end. You will be very happy when you die. No matter what you have done or how bad you think you are, you will be happy when you die, unless you choose not to be. I will most certainly never feel bad for anyone who dies ever again - only that I cannot share my life experiences with them on the same level any longer. I will celebrate knowing that there are in a very peaceful, incredible state of being.

You can doubt me but who are you to judge what I have experinced? Keep an open mind. You can experience this too if that is what you want.

Go way out in the wilderness (this may not be necessary but I believe it helped facilitate my experience both times). Take a lot of mushrooms (it was about 8-9 grams for me). At the very peak, snort at least .25 grams of DMT all at once. You will die. No way around it. It will be fucking terrifying beyond anything you can imagine and you will not like it at all. The mushrooms alone will be like this in all liklihood - and the DMT will push you over the top. It will last about 30 minutes in 'earthly illusion' time and will feel like years, perhaps hundreds or even thousands. It felt like eternity to me and I was quite glad when it was over with as I became quite convinced that it would never actually be over with. It will be quite a show, you can't even begin to imagine. You will Know anything you want to. You will have a choice to live or stay dead, it will be entirley up to you. Because you do choose what you want in life.

You may want to have a trip sitter. I would reccomend it. I didn't either time. The first time I was alone backpacking and many, many miles back in the Sawtooth Wilderness of Idaho. Very, very scary until I knew I was going to live (even after I pleaded to come back to life, it was still about 15 minutes before I was certain that I was going to survive). Nobody around if I did die. Nobody to tell me I was alright. Not my idea of fun or "just something to do because I'm bored".

Second time was an Ayahuasca overdose. This time it wasn't quite the same though. It was the same "HERE WE GO! LEAVING THE BODY!" kind of thing, but Aya wanted me to go with it and I fought back and held on because I thought it meant death again and that didn't interest me at all. I stepped on the line that time but didn't cross it. I think I could have let go and come back though - but again I was alone in the woods and I got scared. I almost passed out from the sheer intensity during this time when I was fighting the OBE. Crazy stuff. Too much for most. Don't get any ideas from this unless you absolutley need this experience. I'm posting it because other people need to know. I risk my reputation as a sane person by saying this stuff but really I ain't afraid of shit anymore and my life has been awesome ever since I decided that I ain't afraid of shit. Several of my friends have gone through the exact same thing and we all agree on the details. There is nothing to fear of death, certainly I look forward to the day. Know that you are going to become the All which you created yourself from again, and that there will still be a you, and no matter what you are not going to be judged or punished because All is infinite, unconditional love of itself, which you are now (in human form...life is the process of trying to remember that you are these things...its like playing hide and go seek with your true self...kinda fun IMO) and will be again. You will have other chances to experience yourself in physical or other form again as well. I promise you. When you die you will remember reading this post and will think "Damn, that dude was right!". I wouldn't post this unless I knew it to be true. It would be a waste of time and that is not what life is about. Wether you belive it or not doesn't matter - seek your own experiences and know for yourself if that is what you want.

See you on the other side!


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Grok]
    #6196255 -

I think if I felt death and was given the chance to die I would take it.

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Grok]
    #6196266 -

Quote:
cilosyb said:Know that you are going to become the All which you created yourself from again, and that there will still be a you, and no matter what you are not going to be judged or punished because All is infinite, unconditional love of itself, which you are now (in human form...life is the process of trying to remember that you are these things...its like playing hide and go seek with your true self...kinda fun IMO) and will be again. You will have other chances to experience yourself in physical or other form again as well. I promise you. When you die you will remember reading this post and will think "Damn, that dude was right!". I wouldn't post this unless I knew it to be true. It would be a waste of time and that is not what life is about. Wether you belive it or not doesn't matter - seek your own experiences and know for yourself if that is what you want.


:bow: Nice Post! 

Astral Projection is a way to help 'remember'


--------------------
"Visualize the action, then actualize the vision." - King of the Hill

“Long you live and high you'll fly and smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry and all you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be.”- Pink Floyd

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Grok]
    #6196271 -

Sorry, but taking a hallucinogen does not equal death. I have had hundreds of these experiences, and while they are profound, they do not equal death. My experiences run the gamut from reliving the past to out of body experiences to communication with entities to living life as another person while intoxicated on hallucinogens, but this is only a dream. Death is the unknown, and as far as anyone knows, the end of awareness. To say that you can see beyond death by taking a hallucinogen is self delusion based in fear. It is also worth noting that hallucinogens are well known for their lack of toxicity and there is almost zero chance of an overdose leading to illness let alone death. I have taken as much as 1200 to 1500 mcg of LSD (that is 12 hits)with no ill effects.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6196374 -

i agree with this dude above me, death doesnt suck man, i would know...


--------------------
"Like Fry, like Fry!"

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6197036 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Sorry, but taking a hallucinogen does not equal death. I have had hundreds of these experiences, and while they are profound, they do not equal death. My experiences run the gamut from reliving the past to out of body experiences to communication with entities to living life as another person while intoxicated on hallucinogens, but this is only a dream. Death is the unknown, and as far as anyone knows, the end of awareness. To say that you can see beyond death by taking a hallucinogen is self delusion based in fear. It is also worth noting that hallucinogens are well known for their lack of toxicity and there is almost zero chance of an overdose leading to illness let alone death. I have taken as much as 1200 to 1500 mcg of LSD (that is 12 hits)with no ill effects.


Like I said, I'll be the one to judge my own experiences. 12 hits of acid is nothing at all like 9 grams of mushrooms and 250mg (5 times the usual breakthrough dose) of DMT. It wasn't a matter of toxicity or dying from the drugs themselves at all. It was a good clean kind of death. I know I could have died if I wanted to. And I know that I could, spontaneously, at any time if that is truley what I wanted to do. I'm not asking anyone to believe me because you sure as fuck don't need to take my word for any of this. Several people I know have gone through the same thing. You will know it is death - its not like "hey this kinda feels like I'm dying....trippy dude!" More like "Oh fuck NO NO NO I've seen all I need to see LET ME GO THE FUCK BACK!"

A delusion based in fear huh? I hate to say it but I really ain't afraid of shit. I know that death is unknown. What I have written doesn't even scratch the surface. Thats what I found so terrifying about it was that it was a fucking vast unknown, although it felt very familiar. But it is possible to get a glimpse. Why wouldn't it be? People have similar NDEs quite frequently without hallucinogens and report many of the same things. And remember that hallucinogen is only a word - you can call the experience a hallucination, but it simply is what it is and I know what I expereinced. Our normal perception is mediated by drugs (serotonin, dopamine, acetylcholine, etc) and I find no reason that other natural drugs which influence our perception would make it any less 'real'. Much different perspective, bu not a less real one.

Maybe you are the one who is afraid? Doubt=fear? I know its not me!

Energy is neither created nor destroyed. If you don't think there is a life energy that is keeping your body alive - you have neglected a large part of your self. When you 'die' this energy simply moves on - it doesn't just stop existing all of the sudden.

I don't want to argue about this crap. Its a waste of time and I try to avoid such things. I just thought I'd share some of my experiences. You don't have to believe me - find out yourself.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Grok]
    #6197050 -

cilosyb said:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Sorry, but taking a hallucinogen does not equal death. I have had hundreds of these experiences, and while they are profound, they do not equal death. My experiences run the gamut from reliving the past to out of body experiences to communication with entities to living life as another person while intoxicated on hallucinogens, but this is only a dream. Death is the unknown, and as far as anyone knows, the end of awareness. To say that you can see beyond death by taking a hallucinogen is self delusion based in fear. It is also worth noting that hallucinogens are well known for their lack of toxicity and there is almost zero chance of an overdose leading to illness let alone death. I have taken as much as 1200 to 1500 mcg of LSD (that is 12 hits)with no ill effects.


Like I said, I'll be the one to judge my own experiences. 12 hits of acid is nothing at all like 9 grams of mushrooms and 250mg (5 times the usual breakthrough dose) of DMT. It wasn't a matter of toxicity or dying from the drugs themselves at all. It was a good clean kind of death. I know I could have died if I wanted to. And I know that I could, spontaneously, at any time if that is truley what I wanted to do. I'm not asking anyone to believe me because you sure as fuck don't need to take my word for any of this. Several people I know have gone through the same thing. You will know it is death - its not like "hey this kinda feels like I'm dying....trippy dude!" More like "Oh fuck NO NO NO I've seen all I need to see LET ME GO THE FUCK BACK!"

A delusion based in fear huh? I hate to say it but I really ain't afraid of shit. I know that death is unknown. What I have written doesn't even scratch the surface. Thats what I found so terrifying about it was that it was a fucking vast unknown, although it felt very familiar. But it is possible to get a glimpse. Why wouldn't it be? People have similar NDEs quite frequently without hallucinogens and report many of the same things. And remember that hallucinogen is only a word - you can call the experience a hallucination, but it simply is what it is and I know what I expereinced. Our normal perception is mediated by drugs (serotonin, dopamine, acetylcholine, etc) and I find no reason that other natural drugs which influence our perception would make it any less 'real'. Much different perspective, bu not a less real one.

Maybe you are the one who is afraid? Doubt=fear? I know its not me!

Energy is neither created nor destroyed. If you don't think there is a life energy that is keeping your body alive - you have neglected a large part of your self. When you 'die' this energy simply moves on - it doesn't just stop existing all of the sudden.

I don't want to argue about this crap. Its a waste of time and I try to avoid such things. I just thought I'd share some of my experiences.  You don't have to believe me - find out yourself.


Not buying the beyond death shit.

Still you've had some rock solid experiences and that is worth something in learning how to live without so much fear.

Also I'm not buying the I'm not afraid of anything shit either.

Interesting trip report though. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/22/06 09:54 AM)

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Icelander]
    #6197070 -

basically just sounds like the high dose DMT trip reports in The Spirit Molecule.

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Grok]
    #6197076 -

You are aware that you posted this in the debate-oriented forum?  If you are not interested in having your beliefs/claims questioned, you could ask for this thread to be moved to MR&P.

BTW, have you read about research into the link between naturally-released DMT and near-death experiences?  I think that you would find it very interesting.  You can use DMT to re-create the chemical experience of dying, without the physical experience of death.  It seems highly unlikely that you actually died and came back without assistance in reviving your body.  The experience you had was utterly convincing, but not evidence of material death.

Quote:
Personal experience = TRUTH. Don't doubt yourself.



Perception = filter for the TRUTH of reality.  Don't let it fool you.  :wink:

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Grok]
    #6197113 -

It would have been stupid for whoever designed this place (us) to leave us with all these questions

What makes you so sure someone designed this place?


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Diploid]
    #6197236 -

Do you it is a result of random forces? Do universes just somehow happen at random? Do you have any idea how incredibly complex and interconnected all life is on this planet?

"Interest in psychoactive substances exploded in the sixties with the use of drugs like LSD, but they largely became an escape from this reality rather than a bridge to a new one. I don't want to escape this reality, I want to change it, and experiencing altered states can help us to understand the game we are dealing with. Those who have studied the effects of drugs like LSD from this perspective have certainly learned a great deal more about reality than they would otherwise have done. One is Stanislav Grof, the author of The Holotropic Mind,' and a former professor at John Hopkins University School of Medicine. He was a founder of the International Transpersonal Association and has developed a means of taking people into altered states called Holotropic Breathwork. Grof was a convinced materialist and atheist until he began studying the effects of LSD in the 1950s as he sought to establish if there were any medical benefits. He was to continue his research for decades to come. In his first experience on LSD, he had what he called "an extraordinary encounter with my subconscious". He realised immediately that the unyielding 'truth' of the scientific establishment, taught as fact in the schools and universities, was a fantasy:

"Traditional science holds the belief that organic matter and life grew from the chemical ooze of the primeval ocean solely through the random interactions of atoms and molecules. Similarly, it is argued that matter was organized into living cells, and cells into complex multicellular organisms with central nervous systems, solely by accident and 'natural selection'. And somehow, along with these explanations, the assumptions that consciousness is a by product of material processes occurring in the brain has become one of the most important metaphysical tenets of the Western worldview.

"As modern science discovers the profound interactions between creative intelligence and all levels of reality, this simplistic image of the universe becomes increasingly untenable. The probability that human consciousness and our infinitely complex universe could have come into existence through random interactions of inert matter has aptly been compared to that of a tornado blowing through a junkyard and accidentally assembling a 747 jumbo jet."

Perhpas what I experienced was not 'real' in the sense that you guys think. It was real enough to me that I would be completly stupid to doubt such a poweful experience. I know about a lot about high dose DMT as I have used shitloads of the stuff and have read everything I could get my hands on about it. Maybe it is was a product of the mind - but that would tell me that we're wired to have that experience so that we can learn a lot from it, which I did. Like I said I think life is process of remembering who you are and experiencing that and certain tools were put here to help us with that. Has anyone here done DMT? Did you find it impossible to believe that it randomly exerts these experiences on you?

[QUOTE]Perception = filter for the TRUTH of reality. Don't let it fool you. :wink:[/QUOTE]

I don't doubt this a bit. I would like you to read this - my experiences with Ayahuasca have shown me that much of this is dead on - this guy's wording is funny and I don't agree that just because our perception creates an illusion that something is 'wrong' or 'bad' about it and that we are making some mistake by having this experience. But it does make a lot of sense to me - you can see how this is manifested in everyday life by people who are trapped in a world that keeps them distracted from doing much thiking about the greater truth of things.

http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/viewtopi...499bc6342bfe170

Is there any reason to think that there may not be some greater truth behind all of this?

I'll throw this out there. I'm a crazy fucker but here's what I think.
Love is the truth. Think of it like this...if it wasn't for love, you wouldn't even be here to wonder about what the truth might be. It is what all of us yearn for and once you have love, people quit worrying so much about what the truth might be...for good reason too...because they have already found it.

You can't prove rationally that you love someone but you can know it beyond any doubt. In much the same way the truth is like this, because it is in fact love. Infinte, conscious, unconditional love energy. This is what I consider to be God. Again I have had experiences which I would be stupid to doubt and think otherwise and I know it to be true personally. We are all the same. All made of the same stuff...protons, neutrons, electrons...energy condensed into matter.

How about this too - the universe is aware of itself. We are made of the exact same stuff the universe is...protons, neutrons, electrons, subatomic particles...energy condensed into matter (think e=mc^2). We are the universe in this sense. And we are aware of the universe. Thus through our awareness of it, the universe becomes aware of itself.

Like I said I pretty far out and crazy and much of my life has been both of these things. I grew up very depressed an suicidal because I only saw a world where people killed eachother and senselessly consumed resources. I wanted no part of this and was sure that I was going to kill myself unless I knew what the fuck all of this was really about because otherwise I wanted no part of it. And through psychedelics, talking to other people, and most importantly just thinking about all this crap nonestop I have  found my answers and they are fucking fascinating to me. I didn't subscribe to any current belief system. I have no fucking idea what astral projection means. It is my beleif that anyone can learn the truth on their own without ever having to adopt anyone else's way of thinking. If life wasn't this way, I wouldn't want any part of it.

/craziness for now.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Grok]
    #6197273 -

I agree 1200 mcg of LSD is not like 9g of shrooms, but I have done 8g many times. I have also done extremely high doses of mescaline and ayahuasca. I have NOT done oral, snorted, or injected DMT do to lack of opportunity only. I have had lvl 5 salvia experiences which are quite profound, but that is all beside the point. My point is that ONLY death is like death. High dose psychedelic trips often have a death and rebirth motif which is quite profound and life changing, but it is NOT like death, because only one who has died would know, but no one has come back from that trip yet to let us know what it is like. I am not undervaluing your experiences as I am a firm believer in the transformative qualities of psychedelics, but to say one has mastered death when one has never experienced it is delusion. It may be a comfortable delusion, but delusion it is.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Icelander]
    #6197294 -

I agree...it is an interesting...though somewhat typical reaction to a high dose trip. I do think that this person should examine their experiences closer. There are many opportunities for growth there, but expanding the ego is not one of those opportunities unless that is actually their intent.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Grok]
    #6197301 -

I'll throw this out there. I'm a crazy fucker but here's what I think.
Love is the truth

Well, I think most of those involved in this debate might agree here. Yet the experience that each of us is involved in will differ to one degree or another. I have seen people come to the same conclusion in the end as me and take a route I had rejected as incorrect.

I think your experience is a valid one, for you, and maybe for some others of us also, but it will not be for everyone, that I'm convinced of. The variety of experience is part of the cosmic game IMO, and we will be fooled each time we thing we know some objective truth.

I appreciate what you have to say and it's my guess that much of it is true. Same with the approach of others like Diploid, who by the way does know how incredibly complex life is. But is approach to that is his unique perspective and he may not identify with yours. Both are valid ways of looking at this amazing dream IMO. :mushroom2:

I'm a big fan of DMT myself and like to combine it with the LSD experience.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6197322 -

I think it might be fair to refer to chemically-induced death perception as a dress rehearsal for material death.

Isn't part of the idea of using heroic doses to allow yourself to practice for the "real thing"? If we can create a completely convincing death experience, yet still continue to live afterward, perhaps we can let go of ourselves a little bit during our lifetime.

The point is not whether actual death occurred, but what you intend to learn or already have learned from the experience. To defend an experience you intentionally induced in yourself as being 100% factual is to miss the point, IMO.

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Veritas]
    #6197328 -

" I think that you would find it very interesting. You can use DMT to re-create the chemical experience of dying"

The death and rebirth motif can be created with any psychedelic. I have had it with high dose LSD, shrooms, and ayahuasca. It is only a matter of set, setting, and intent to reproduce it reliably. It often happens to terrified newbies who become convinced they are dying. If you want to experience it just start playing with really high doses of entheogens, and make sure that you push yourself far out of your comfort zone.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6197348 -

Yes, I know.  I'm tripping on my everyday reality these days, but may spend more time in inner space in the future.  :mushroom2:

I referenced DMT specifically because he mentioned it in his initial post.

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6197358 -

"Isn't part of the idea of using heroic doses to allow yourself to practice for the "real thing"?"

Well it is to practice letting go in every sense. Letting go is a valuable quality that I am still working on. Is is a dress rehearsal...not really. It is an opportunity to be reborn into change. It is A death, but not THE death. It is a chance to stop old patterns and establish new ones. It is a rebirth in that sense. It is NOT, however, physical death. The original poster is on the right track, but needs to stop using his ability to handle high doses affect his ego. Lots of people can do that...it just takes a little practice and an adventurous spirit. The novelty does eventually wear off and one can get down to serious work.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Icelander]
    #6197365 -

Quote:
Not buying the beyond death shit.

Still you've had some rock solid experiences and that is worth something in learning how to live without so much fear.

Also I'm not buying the I'm not afraid of anything shit either.

Interesting trip report though. :wink:


The fact is you do not know me. Ever since I have decided to just love everything and everybody and not be afraid of shit to the best of by ability my life has been incredible beyond anything I could have imagined growing up. I am not like most people and never have been. The only way to truley be in the now is to ditch your fears and give your love with no expectations. What are you afraid of?

On another note, the 'mysteries' of the universe as I understand them could be explained to a child and could awe an astronaut, as logically they should. Everything is really fucking obvious if you take off this wrong pair of glasses humanity is collectivly wearing. There is no need for abstract speculation. EVERYTHING IS RIGHT BEFORE YOUR EYES and it always has been. Start stop thinking about things so much and just look around sometime. Get out of the world of words and labels. A tree is not a tree. That is only a word we came up with so we could pretend to know what it is to ease our fears of the unknown. It simply is what it is just like everything else. Listen to the silence. It holds the truth. Everything should make perfect logical sense. It does to me but then again I would be defined as crazy by most so you you should probably just think for yourself and not listen to me. Keep an open mind . You just never know...until you do!


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

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Re: What you should Know about death [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6197371 -

Well it is to practice letting go in every sense.

Parenting is great practice, too.  :tongue:  Either you learn to let go of being "in control," or you burn out.

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