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Offlineshroom_muncher
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Registered: 10/07/03
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Near-death experiences
    #2310471 - 02/07/04 02:15 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Lately i've read about a lot of near-death experiences and came to a conclusion, there IS a god. After reading so many people tell the exact same story about floating up into a light its hard not to believe that theres something better after this life. Reading about them put me at ease. If anyones scared of dying you should just read some itll make youfeel better.


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peace sells but whos buyin?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Near-death experiences [Re: shroom_muncher]
    #2310477 - 02/07/04 02:21 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I've had one myself when I was 6 and got hit by a car, it was probably the most peaceful memory I have of my life so far.


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Offlinelostsuitcase
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Re: Near-death experiences [Re: shroom_muncher]
    #2310494 - 02/07/04 02:28 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

(After reading so many people tell the exact same story about floating up into a light its hard not to believe that theres something better after this life. Reading about them put me at ease. If anyones scared of dying you should just read some itll make youfeel better.)

there are probably a thousand different scientific reasons for "floating up into a light effect" that could easily debunk some sort of "proof" of an afterlife. Im too busy to bother checking them out though, and I dont really care anyways, death begets us all.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Near-death experiences [Re: lostsuitcase]
    #2310499 - 02/07/04 02:30 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

debunk my ass. no way any scientist can debunk such an experience. Unless you've experienced it firsthand, there is no way to describe it with full clarity...or even attempt to put a scientific explanation to it for that matter.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Near-death experiences [Re: shroom_muncher]
    #2310502 - 02/07/04 02:30 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I once knew a girl who had one(caused by a suicide attempt). She said she saw the world fading further and further away into darkness.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinelostsuitcase
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Re: Near-death experiences [Re: Shroomism]
    #2310510 - 02/07/04 02:33 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

(debunk my ass. no way any scientist can debunk such an experience. Unless you've experienced it firsthand, there is no way to describe it with full clarity.)

I didnt mean debunk the experience, I meant debunk the idea that it provides "proof" of an afterlife. Anyways alot of people experience things that arent "real", the demons in the hallucinations of a manic-depressive are not real, they cant actually hurt them, just because someone experiences something does not mean it exists.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Near-death experiences [Re: lostsuitcase]
    #2310521 - 02/07/04 02:35 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

What about the cases where people were clinically dead and then came back to life, only to describe in detail what the doctors and nurses were saying around his dead body?

I'm not saying that NDEs are proof of an afterlife, but likewise, there is no way to disprove such a thing.


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Offlinelostsuitcase
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Re: Near-death experiences [Re: Shroomism]
    #2310598 - 02/07/04 03:00 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

id be interested in seeing reputable evidence of such a scenario


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Offlineshroom_muncher
ex-dope fiend

Registered: 10/07/03
Posts: 426
Loc: The great white north
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Re: Near-death experiences [Re: lostsuitcase]
    #2310643 - 02/07/04 03:15 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Even if there is no "afterlife", the death experience is supposed to be the most peaceful, calm feeling anyone will ever experience so at least you know its not gonna be superscary and feel bad. I'm hoping to take the right drugs in the right amounts and meditate into a near-death experience, I've actually read about people doing that. Theres tons of websites with people who've posted their experiences:

www.near-death.com is a big one


--------------------
peace sells but whos buyin?


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Invisiblemuhurgle
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Re: Near-death experiences [Re: shroom_muncher]
    #2311027 - 02/07/04 07:19 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

One explanation for the near death tunnel experience:

The density of connections between the eye and the brain is higher in the center of the eye and lower further out towards the edges. This is one of the reasons that your eyesight is better in the center of your field of vision. Under the influence of some drugs your synapses are firing wildly. When you are under extreme stress or extremely afraid, your brain will be flooded with endorphines and possibly other substances. If all the vision center synapses are firing, the density distribution will make it appear much brighter (ie. white light) in the centre of your vision and fading towards the edges (ie. a tunnel of white light).

How the experience is interpreted is also highly cultural. Americans will tend to interpret it as a peaceful welcoming into heaven, while Indians try to fight it because they fear they will meet Yamraj, the king of the dead.

Only good people come to heaven. Having a tranquil, enlightening NDE indicates that you're a good human being. Would you tell anybody that your NDE was a hellish experience?

I'm sure people here are aware of the various effects of drugs and the endless possibilities in interpreting those effects. Why should there be anything special about NDE experiences?


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"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Near-death experiences [Re: shroom_muncher]
    #2311067 - 02/07/04 08:14 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Cirumstancial evidence for survival of consciousness after death

Dr. Ken Ring published a paper in the Journal of Near-Death Studies (Summer, 1993) concerning near-death experiencers who, while out of their bodies, witness real events that occur far away from their dead body. The important aspect to this phenomenon is that these events seen far away are later verified to be true. Experiencers not only witness events from great distances, but they have been documented to hear conversations between people at the same events. Conversations such as these have also verified to be true. An even more fascinating phenomenon occurs when the experiencer actually appears in spirit to someone, usually a loved one, during their NDE and it is verified to be true by the experiencer and the loved one. It is evidence such as this, if scientifically controlled, that can provide absolute scientific proof that consciousness can exist outside of the body. A scientifically controlled NDE that can be repeated which provides such evidence would be the scientific discovery of all time. However, science does not yet have the exact tools to accomplish this. But, science is coming very, very close. This kind of evidence and others provide very strong circumstantial evidence for the survival of consciousness.

NDE Evidence for Survival Index:


Visions and memories occur while brain dead
Real events are witnessed far away from thier body
People born blind can see during an NDE
Children have similar NDEs as adults
People are dramatically changed by an NDE
NEDs have unusual common aspects
Scientific discoveries are brought back
People are absolutely convinced they left their body
A group of people can die and share an NDE
Some people were verifiably dead for days
Some people have successfully foreseen the future
NDEs have been occurring for thousands of years
Ancient religions support NDE concepts
Scientific studies support out-of-body aspects
More evidence supporting survival after death


Related phenomenon:


Deathbed Dreams
Out-of-body
After-death
Hypnosis
Synchronicity
Physics
Reincarnation
Psychics
Remote viewing
Consciousness
Paranormal



"In the light of the near-death experience, death is nothing more than the illusion of separateness and finality, and those who can believe in this vision of death, like near-death experiencers themselves, lose all fear of it, for how can you fear that which does not exist?" - Dr. Ken Ring

Near Death Experiences & The Afterlife



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Anonymous

Re: Near-death experiences [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2311124 - 02/07/04 09:27 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Near-death experiences [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2311809 - 02/07/04 03:33 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

There is so much to refute. Where to start...

From your link:

Yes, people do receive higher knowledge and information about cures for diseases such as cancer and AIDS while they are in the light of the NDE.

The main problem preventing many people from bringing back some of this higher knowledge attained during an NDE is that it's difficult to retain every memory of their NDE, assuming it can be remembered at all. This general inability of people being unable to retain every memory from an NDE is similar to our general inability to remember every memory of a dream we have after we wake up. However, this is not to say that higher knowledge and scientific discoveries are not attained during NDEs or dreams.

SO NDEers have learned to cure AIDS, but forgot? How is this vapid claim evidence of a scientific discovery?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Near-death experiences [Re: Swami]
    #2311832 - 02/07/04 03:39 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Near-death experiences [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2311862 - 02/07/04 03:47 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

More on NDES. From your link:

NDE prophecies that were actually fulfilled:

In 1975, the following prophecies were given to Dannion Brinkley during his NDE.

(1) An actor will become president whose initials are R. R. and will project the image of being a cowboy to the rest of the world.

(2) In the area of the Middle East, anger and hatred will reach a boiling point. Religion will play a large role in these problems, as will the economy. Israel will become isolated from the rest of the world. Saudi Arabia will give money to countries, such as North Korea, and make deals and shake hands.

(3) In 1986, a nuclear explosion of a massive cement structure, near a river in Russia, will occur. Hundreds of people will die. This disaster has something to do with the word Wormwood.

(4) The Soviet Union will collapse because of economic problems. The Russian people will lose faith in communism. Great food shortages will happen. The Russian mafia will gain much power. Soviet-style communism will die. The Being of Light told Dannion the following:

"Watch the Soviet Union. How the Russian people go, so goes the world. What happens to Russia is the basis for everything that will happen to the economy of the free world."

The collapse of the Soviet Union occurred in 1989 due to economic problems. There were great shortages of food and the power of the Russian mafia became stronger.

(5) In 1990, a great desert war will be fought. Armies will race toward one another and lightning-like explosions will occur.

The U.S. military operation called Desert Storm occurred in 1990 where the U.S. army squashed the Iraqi army for occupying Kuwait.


Uh, huh. These "prophecies" were published in "Saved By the Light"; 1994 , Copyrighted By: Villard Books. Yup, a "prophecy" published after the fact is called history and does not require the aid of "Light Beings"; merely a newspaper.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Near-death experiences [Re: Swami]
    #2311887 - 02/07/04 03:53 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Near-death experiences [Re: ]
    #2311902 - 02/07/04 03:58 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Vapid? My what an ugly word.
Did I say vapid? I meant insipid. :smile:

Instead of tricky, cutesy questions, how about some links or empirical evidence to back up your claims?
You lost me. How do I find a link to show that no NDEr has a working solution to AIDS? Shouldn't it be the other way around?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

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Posts: 15,413
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Re: Near-death experiences [Re: ]
    #2311914 - 02/07/04 04:01 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Uh, huh. These "arguments" are logical fallacies. Yup, if Dannion Brinkley falls, all NDE's are false.

Didn't say that anywhere. Am just responding to some of the exact same links that you found convincing. Would be interested in any documented evidence of prophecies if anyone has some.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Near-death experiences [Re: Swami]
    #2311923 - 02/07/04 04:05 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Near-death experiences [Re: Swami]
    #2311930 - 02/07/04 04:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Footnote: One can be extremely close to death and not experience an NDE, so it is not merely being "about to die", but about certain medical conditions being met. I have been close twice and have been with people dying who apparently did not have them. Seems a certain type of trauma or unconsciousness is a prerequisite.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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