Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Science and Technology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Re: so, so lets say i need to build a cooling tower thats about 1500 feet tall.... HOW do i do it? [Re: Konnrade]
    #5921552 -

i just had another idea, drill a giant fucking hole into the top edge of the cliff instead of building a tower on it ?

but..... while this may end up being cheaper, it does not allow for added convection that would result from solar radiation turning to heat when hitting the side of the tower...


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so, so lets say i need to build a cooling tower thats about 1500 feet tall.... HOW do i do it? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #5921815 -

zippoz said:
none of the above :smile:

i dont know why im even being so secretive about this...... i just want to see the damn thing built. although im supprised that noone else knows what im trying to do.....


My guess:

Are you building a solar pond, trying to take advantage of the temperature gradient between the heat collected in a massive square foot pond and the atmospheric temperature at the top of the tower?  Are you going to put a wind turbine at the top of the tower and generate electricity?


**EDIT**Oh shit, a couple posts down you confirmed my guess.

Ps.  You ever read Atlas Shrugged?  I'm almost half through it...I love the book...I KNOW you would too.  That is, if you have enough time between calculations to take on a 1200 page book.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

Edited by TODAY (08/01/06 12:58 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so, so lets say i need to build a cooling tower thats about 1500 feet tall.... HOW do i do it? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #5921887 -

Maybe your tower shouldn't press down on its foundations but rather pull on them.

Giant Hydrogen balloons may hover high above the clouds, and decrease the weight resting on your foundations. In that case your building can be far lighter, thus cheaper, than it otherwise would be.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so, so lets say i need to build a cooling tower thats about 1500 feet tall.... HOW do i do it? [Re: Asante]
    #5921948 -

Yeah, giant hydrogen balloons have been proven repeatedly to be a great idea.  :wink:

What will the effects of the massive winds created at the bottom of the tower be?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so, so lets say i need to build a cooling tower thats about 1500 feet tall.... HOW do i do it? [Re: Asante]
    #5922703 -

this has been proposed as a solution to the problem, but there is an issue of the vaccum created at the base of the tower. also we are talking about somthing that is going to dwarf the height of 3000 feet and has an internal diamater of 350 feet. which is very large....

while this obstacle could be overcome with the creation of a half and half tower, i wouldnt bet on anything untill i had some more data, if not a functional scale model covering a few acres.

i was busy at the bar scribbling down notes on a coctail napkin this afternoon trying to figure out how big this thing would be, and its suface area is just over 7 miles (in a circle) and playing with different configurations for the dish.
now if i was to make this a 1/4 wedge or 1/2 semi circle model of the same concept the surface area would most likely have to stay the same. as would tower dimensions.


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so, so lets say i need to build a cooling tower thats about 1500 feet tall.... HOW do i do it? [Re: TODAY]
    #5922715 -

TODAY said:
zippoz said:
none of the above :smile:

i dont know why im even being so secretive about this...... i just want to see the damn thing built. although im supprised that noone else knows what im trying to do.....


My guess:

Are you building a solar pond, trying to take advantage of the temperature gradient between the heat collected in a massive square foot pond and the atmospheric temperature at the top of the tower?  Are you going to put a wind turbine at the top of the tower and generate electricity?


**EDIT**Oh shit, a couple posts down you confirmed my guess.

Ps.  You ever read Atlas Shrugged?  I'm almost half through it...I love the book...I KNOW you would too.  That is, if you have enough time between calculations to take on a 1200 page book.



well i dont want that much water, although the use of sealed black tubes full of water layed along the ground would have a good heat retention ability.

the posibility of placing these water ponds outside the collector and then pumping them in has also been discussed as a potential for proving more power on peak demand hours, and or at night.


but with too much water, we will create a sea brease, and would be in danger of reversing the flow of air at night, which the system is currently not designed for.


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so, so lets say i need to build a cooling tower thats about 1500 feet tall.... HOW do i do it? [Re: Asante]
    #5922834 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Maybe your tower shouldn't press down on its foundations but rather pull on them.

Giant Hydrogen balloons may hover high above the clouds, and decrease the weight resting on your foundations. In that case your building can be far lighter, thus cheaper, than it otherwise would be.


That was mentioned briefly in the wikipedia entry.

It seems that someone has had the idea of using a very lightweight chimney that is held bouyant by rings along it's surface which are filled with lighter-than-air gas.

If it was made from a durable plastic or something similar I'd imagine that with enough bouyant rings it would be possible to make one that doesn't apply force on the ground at all, but is merely anchored to the ground to keep it from flying away.

The segments could be modular, too. It could be built slowly by adding more modules over time, perhaps allowing for the cost to be more drawn-out and less of an all-at-once purchase.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so, so lets say i need to build a cooling tower thats about 1500 feet tall.... HOW do i do it? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #5922849 -

He is really buildng a hurricane making device. It is powered by bicycles and biodiesel.

I love reading your posts zippoz


--------------------
The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so, so lets say i need to build a cooling tower thats about 1500 feet tall.... HOW do i do it? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #5922966 -

Are you really talking about spearheading a multi-hundred million dollar project? What are your qualifications besides being a highly motivated dreamer? Venture capitalists don't just toss around their money, especially on solar projects requiring the world's tallest structure ever built. I suppose you've been told all this before though.

Regardless, I wish you the best of luck.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so, so lets say i need to build a cooling tower thats about 1500 feet tall.... HOW do i do it? [Re: tak]
    #5922995 -

well thank you, i grabbed my notebook and sketch book, and im going to go off to the bar to do some ground breaking calculations and so on.

--- edit, looks like i did them here, lol ----

in the effort of lowering the expected costs for the construction of this tower, i also have to look at the price of the collector, its construction methods and durability.

so costs for the 3000 foot model being at 606 million euros
133 mil for the turbines
42 for engineering and testing
261 for the collector
170 for the tower

now call me crazy but with large numbers like that even the smallest savings can reduce the cost exponentially. and that collector and that tower are looking to be a bit much imo.


regardless, if were going to be talking about a floating tower, we are going to have to look at some serious numbers,

so lets see how much surface area(sqf) of the materials used to make the tower. assuming 2 sets of tubes were built, both 3000 feet long, one with a 350 foot diamater and one with a 310 foot diamater.  One inside the other, connected by partitions made of the same material, to allow for individual inflation, and deflation.

350 foot dia, 3,300,000 sqf curved surface area
310 foot dia, 2,920,000 sqf curved surface area

the partitions would only be built from the smaller tube outward towards the larger tube. thus we can calculate the surface area of those by the difference in surface area between the 2 cylinders bases.

as the total surface area for the 350 sqf tower is actually 3,490,000 we can subtract the above curved Surface area
3 300 000 - 3 490 000 = -190 000 and we get the area of both sides of the first cylinder.

we take 190,000 sqf/2 which is 95,000 sqf (the area of the base of the 350 foot dia cylinder)

i hope you can folllow this  :smile:

now we need the square footage of the base of the other cylinder.

ill save you the math and say that its...
150,000 for both sides, and therefore 75,000 for one side.

sooo.

95,000 - 75,000 is 20,000 sqf for each divider. we will assume one per 100 feet, so we will need enough material for 31 dividers

*****************************
we will need

350 foot dia, 3,300,000 sqf curved surface area
310 foot dia, 2,920,000 sqf curved surface area
dividers  X31  620,000 sqf Surface area
--------------------------
total material 6,840,000 Sqf



now lets get onto the questions of weight and lift which brings us to the question of the volume of this column of gas which should be the difference in the volume of the 2 cylinders.
289,000,000 cf and
-226,000,000 cf
------------
  63,000,000 Cubic feet


One cubic foot of helium will lift about 28.2 grams
i cant find the rates for hydrogen, but i dont want a new hindenburg so well forget that for now.

so at 28.2 grams of lift for cf, we get 1 776 600 000 grams, 

3,916,732.55 pounds
which is enough to make 261 full grown african elephnats float into the sunset.....


regardless with that amount of lift,
3,916,732 lbs we can compute the maximum amount that the construction materials could weigh.

total sqf of material 3,916,732 lbs /6,840,000 sqf = maximum weight per sqf being .573 lbs now that isnt much, and i would imagine that it would have to be half of that to be functional, so .27 lbs per Sqf of material.

so i suppose it could work if the materials were light enough, but can it be built that light??? there is also the question of structural stability, and possible decreased function.


however that much gas would probably act as a very large heat sink, that theoretically would release the heat from the day, long into the night



--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

Edited by zippoz (08/01/06 08:09 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so, so lets say i need to build a cooling tower thats about 1500 feet tall.... HOW do i do it? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #5924274 -

Forget Helium! Water + Electricity = hydrogen so your plant can be self-sufficient in any gas needs it has.

Hydrogen is 100 times cheaper and weighs only 1/4th per liter. Free-hanging hydrogen balloons without ignition sources and without leaks simply won't cause trouble. If you can't get hydrogen balloons to work then you shouldn't consider this project :sun:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

Edited by Asante (08/02/06 02:31 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so, so lets say i need to build a cooling tower thats about 1500 feet tall.... HOW do i do it? [Re: Asante]
    #5924619 -

Just a thought... if you use something denser than air, then you should be able to use a smaller column and get the same power. Why not build a large solar powered thermal siphon along the side of a mountain? Turbines at the bottom to generate electricity and the thermal siphon to move water back up to the reservoir. The big question would be how much water you could move through the siphon. If you made it wide enough, quite a lot, I would think.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so, so lets say i need to build a cooling tower thats about 1500 feet tall.... HOW do i do it? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #5938245 -

Maybe ask these guys: http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/01/technology/towerofpower0802.biz2/

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so, so lets say i need to build a cooling tower thats about 1500 feet tall.... HOW do i do it? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #5938854 -

it may be possible to constrct a space which has a larger demention inside than outside.this involves building a many worlds computer

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: so, so lets say i need to build a cooling tower thats about 1500 feet tall.... HOW do i do it? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #5939689 -

ChuangTzu said:
Maybe ask these guys: http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/01/technology/towerofpower0802.biz2/


well this article states the obvious, that it was scaled down from the origonal model, and theyre still waiting on money form the goverment... shame this dosent look to be actually happening...


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2  [ show all ]

General Interest > Science and Technology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* hydrogen producing bacteria JameZTheNewbie 1,662 7 05/26/05 04:17 AM
by ChuangTzu
* Hydrogen fuel may disturb ozone layer micro 1,761 9 07/07/03 03:02 PM
by Elemicin
* Hyping Hydrogen: The Energy Scam
( 1 2 all )		 Ellis Dee 4,829 37 05/14/03 06:02 PM
by Papaver
* Hydrogen as solid fuel pellets wingnutx 3,196 19 04/21/03 06:10 PM
by JssMthrFcknChrst
* can you build your own ionic breeze??
( 1 2 all )		 the man 3,593 22 07/22/04 10:27 AM
by Seuss
* .
( 1 2 3 all )		 TheHateCamel 5,889 47 07/07/03 04:30 PM
by Elemicin
* Building a new computer NewfoundFreedom 891 5 10/20/04 08:36 PM
by kronnyQ
* Building a PC - help needed MycoFactory 1,365 10 06/12/03 12:46 PM
by MycoFactory

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: trendal, automan, Northerner
4,019 topic views. 0 members, 9 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.026 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 15 queries.