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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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jar lids during sterilization
    #576873 -

in the original PF it says to leave the jar bands loose, but i read on one of the beginner teks to leave the jars lids on tight but leave the tape off of the nail holes. it said that steam getting into the jars would screw up the water ratio. why would you bother to use foil to cover the lids if you wanted water\steam to get into your jars? could somebody please clarify this for me? a friend of mine did some jars with the lids tight and the tape holes uncovered, only with foil crumpled over the top. will that be sufficient for sterilization? thanks in advance.



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*Everything in this post is fictional and should be treated as such*

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Re: jar lids during sterilization [Re: zodiac312]
    #576878 -

jars are boiled/steamed to sterilize the contents, but you dont want any water or steam to get into the jars, if you followed a good tek you have the proper amount of water already in the subtrate. the steam of a covered pot of boiling water for an hour or so will kill the germs and such inside because the temp will be raised. foil is a good way to keep the steam and water out, just make sure the holes in the lids dont put holes in the foil(fold the foil over once or twice to make it thicker).

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Re: jar lids during sterilization [Re: zodiac312]
    #576905 -

From the PF Tek, Chapter 1:"When steaming or pressure canning is performed, the jars must be protected from water dripping down from the underside of the pot lid caused by heavy condensation and drip off during boiling. This water can get into the jars by entering under the jar lids that aren?t tight and soaking the substrate - throwing off the formula and setting up failure. To prevent this, wrap some tin foil around the cap to ward off the water. The tin foil can be removed after steaming (with the tape guarding the needle holes - or the tin foil can be left on until it is inoculation time."( http://www.fanaticus.com/sub-prep.htm ):peace:



Free Spore Ring
 


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The rest of those, who have gone before us,
cannot settle the unrest of those who follow.
(Finding Forrester)

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Re: jar lids during sterilization [Re: zodiac312]
    #576906 -

You want the tape on the holes during sterilization to sterilize the tape. The foil just helps keep out excess water including condensation that can drip from the top of the cooker and the spashes during boiling. I doubt that steam getting into the jars is an issue... a bigger problem would be losing moisture from within the jars as they cook.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: jar lids during sterilization [Re: Seuss]
    #577135 -

I find that if steam enters the jar then it totally screws up the water ratio. Your verm barrier will end up wet.

Another thing is these 'holes and tape' in the lids. I don't use them, I just take the lid off and quickly innoculate then replace the lid. If your air is contaminated (very, very unlikely) then it won't make any difference if the hole is small or large, it's not like the hole is so small contaminates won't fit in or find it.

It only takes a small amount of common sense to ensure clean working conditions. I would say that the air we breathe is by default, clean. If it's contaminated it's for a specific reason....the mouldy loaf of bread on the counter.....the contaminated cakes laying in the trash can next to you or the corpse rotting in the corner.

It's nice to have air locks for doors and hepa air filters in every room but really, they are not nesseccary!

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Re: jar lids during sterilization [Re: Seuss] * 1
    #577136 -

I find that if steam enters the jar then it totally screws up the water ratio. Your verm barrier will end up wet.

Another thing is these 'holes and tape' in the lids. I don't use them, I just take the lid off and quickly innoculate then replace the lid. If your air is contaminated (very, very unlikely) then it won't make any difference if the hole is small or large, it's not like the hole is so small contaminates won't fit in or find it.

It only takes a small amount of common sense to ensure clean working conditions. I would say that the air we breathe is by default, clean. If it's contaminated it's for a specific reason....the mouldy loaf of bread on the counter.....the contaminated cakes laying in the trash can next to you or the corpse rotting in the corner.

It's nice to have air locks for doors and hepa air filters in every room but really, they are not nesseccary!

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Re: jar lids during sterilization [Re: ]
    #577524 -

Tonight my friend H20 and I tried inoculating our very first jars. We put the lid on semi-tight with the gummy side of the lid down touching the jar. We then put plastic packaging tape over the holes. Then covered with aluminum foil.

PC'd them for a little over an hour and let them cool overnight.

So we're in a clean room shaking the syringe and I proceed to sterilize the needle and squirt a little bit of soulution out. I poke the needle through the hole of the first jar and theres this sound of air being released, the lid pops up. My friend, H20 notices 3.5 ccs of the syringe are gone. He thinks I squirted way to much solution out when I flushed the needle after flaming it. I'm dumbfounded but proceed to do the next jar being careful to only squirt 1/4 cc in each hole. Then the third jar, I poke the hole with the syringe and insert it down the side of the jar and notice the fucker is empty. H20 exclaims, "Did you see what god just did to us man!" All the solution in the syringe was sucked into the jar. Now we realized what had happened to the first jar. Our jars were sealed and had a vacuum. Damn this sucks for our first time. We only have three cakes to try now.

We think it was because of the plastic tape. Would masking tape let some pressure out of the jars? What should we do next time? Flip the lids maybe?




Edited by TranceTrippinXTC (03/13/02 12:22 AM)

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Re: jar lids during sterilization [Re: TranceTrippinXTC]
    #577597 -

Baby Bear uses filter disks under her lids....Flip the lid so the seal is facing up, as long as the pressure can equalize, she leaves the lids loose covered with foil....

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Re: jar lids during sterilization [Re: TranceTrippinXTC]
    #577692 -

so now you're stuck with only 3 jars.  if 3/3 are contamed.. yer fucked :smile:

not a good situation.  what i would do, is make up some potatoe dextose agar, and WAIT for some healthy mycelium to form in there, and then as soon as you see it, take some out and throw it in agar, possibly h2o2 agar even, since you probally dont have a flowhood.

this way you wont be left in teh dark with no spores.

or you could always put all your eggs in one basket, hope they colonize w/o contam, fruit, and produce a fruit to clone :smile:
(or print)  (or spawn)

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Re: jar lids during sterilization [Re: ]
    #577720 -

It has been a while since I have done cakes, but I don't remember ever having a problem with too much water... if anything I would end up on the dry side. I always used a wet vermiculite layer too... donno that it matters though.

I just don't understand the physics behind steam adding moisture to the inside of a jar. Steam is a gas and gasses take up aprox 1000 times the volume that their solid phase occupies. The steam is also going to have to condense on something which is going to require a cooler surface than the steam itself which doesn't exist inside a pressure cooker while it is in use. Even if the entire jar were full of steam and it all condensed into water, we are talking at most a single ml of extra water. Am I missing something here?

> It only takes a small amount of common sense to ensure clean working conditions.

I used to say the same thing. I had done lot of cakes and prints with no problems at all. I started getting sloppy in my work and pretty soon contamination moved in. Once I had it, it was almost impossible to get rid of. I think if you have a clean work area to begin with, it doesn't take much to keep it that way. If you do not have a clean grow area, it can be hell getting it clean.

> I would say that the air we breathe is by default, clean.

It depends on your definition of clean. The air we breath is very "dirty". We have hairs in our noses and mucus in our sinus passages to help clean the air as we breath it. We also have a mighty immune system that attacks anything that makes it past the hairs and mucus. With all that in place we still get sick from time to time. The air we breath has pollen, mites, dust, dead skin flakes, pollutants, spores, virus, bacteria all floating around in it. Just look at all the crap floating around in a bright sunbeam coming through a window, or all the dirt from an air filter that has been running for a few days.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: jar lids during sterilization [Re: Seuss]
    #577770 -

When I say 'clean' I mean clean enough that you can take the lid off and innoculate without worry.

Thats what my elves do and they don't have any problems! My eyes don't decieve me!

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Re: jar lids during sterilization [Re: ]
    #577823 -

-grin- Can I borrow a couple of your elves? I don't doubt what you are saying, but my luck is nowhere near that good.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: jar lids during sterilization [Re: Seuss]
    #578075 -

I'll be laying off some of the Hawaiian elves soon, I'll send a couple over!......;) 

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