Home | Community | Message Board

World Seed Supply
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Original Sensible Seeds USA West Coast Strains   Amanita Muscaria Store Amanita Extract   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Cultivation Supplies

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
Offlinenoflashlight
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 36
Loc: macon, georgia
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
ATL Subs find today! *DELETED*
    #5601286 - 05/07/06 02:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by noflashlight

Reason for deletion: .



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleshroomydan
exshroomerite
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: noflashlight]
    #5601302 - 05/07/06 02:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Panaeolina foenisecii, not active.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGumby
Fishnologist
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 26,656
Trusted Identifier
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: noflashlight]
    #5601630 - 05/07/06 04:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Dude, you really have a lot of research and reading to do. None of your "active" mushrooms have been active, or really even close on IDs. Do some more reading before you even think of putting a mushroom you found in your mouth.

That might be harsh, but hey, the truth hurts. =\


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineESanceOfCyan
MushroomMogul
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 506
Loc: SeaTown
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: shroomydan]
    #5601632 - 05/07/06 04:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

^^^^^^^^:thumbup:


--------------------
Save Marc

www.emeryseeds.com
Holy dog shit! Texas? Only steers and queers come from Texas, Private Cowboy. And you don't look much like a steer to me so that kinda narrows it down. Do you suck dicks?
-Gunnery Sergeant Hartman(Full-Metal Jacket)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineihaveacow
ilovehumidity

Registered: 06/10/05
Posts: 470
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: ESanceOfCyan]
    #5601663 - 05/07/06 04:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

start reaserching, u post all the time, there are easily not subbs , may know if u reaserched, fuck


--------------------
im me on aim... bennettbike

i dont smoke, drink, or abuse drugs, but because i trip spiritually twice a year i got a felony!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePurple_spore
Compulsively Skeptical OG
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/05
Posts: 795
Loc: nor cal Flag
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: ihaveacow]
    #5602155 - 05/07/06 07:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Ouch kinda harsh.......... He's probably is just a kid. How about some links like
http://www.mushroomjohn.com/panaoluskind1.htm http://www.mushroomjohn.com/panaeolina1.htm http://www.mushroomjohn.com/panaeolussubbalteatus1.htm







That last one is foenisecii for the ignorant. But seriously man spred knowlege and love not hate and intolerance(I'm going to put that on my profile) I hate to see how you treat you children.


--------------------
Safety first children :thumbup:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePurple_spore
Compulsively Skeptical OG
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/05
Posts: 795
Loc: nor cal Flag
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: Purple_spore]
    #5602167 - 05/07/06 07:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Oh but I agree do some reasearch before posting please.


--------------------
Safety first children :thumbup:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 812
Loc: NSW, Australia.
Last seen: 3 years, 28 days
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: Purple_spore]
    #5602202 - 05/07/06 07:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

noflashlight,

There's nothing wrong (IMO) for posting pics and asking for an ID if you find an interesting mushroom. But if you're looking for a specific type of mushroom (hallucinagenic mushrooms) there's no point in posting pictures of every random LBM you find hoping it is one of them.

The first thing you should check if you're looking for them is "does it bruise a blueish colour?". If not the chances are you have not found an active mushroom. Although I have heard that Pan Subs sometimes do not exhibit obvious blue bruising it is a good guide for other actives. The second is to take a spore print (remove the cap and put it on a piece of white paper for a few hours). If the spore print is not dark purple/black, don't bother posting a picture and asking for an ID.

If you find a mushroom for which both of those things are true, then you are probably in luck. Post a picture and get confirmation. But only if the mushroom looks like other pictures of you target mushroom. Looking at this page:- http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/par/23488 it should be obvious within 1 second without even trying to bruise them or take a spore print that the ones you found are definitely not pan subs.


Edited by oO_wombat_Oo (05/07/06 07:21 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 812
Loc: NSW, Australia.
Last seen: 3 years, 28 days
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #5603047 - 05/07/06 10:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I will also add, just for general interest, that Panaeolus foenisecii do rarely contain small amounts of psilocybin (the stuff that makes people go googoo) but not enough of it to make anyone trip, so for all practical purposes they are inactive. Don't eat them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGumby
Fishnologist
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 26,656
Trusted Identifier
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #5603073 - 05/07/06 10:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

No. They don't. Foen's only are said to contain psilocybin due to an old, botched study. Mushrooms in the study were misidentified. Panaeolina foenisecii is not active. Ever.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 812
Loc: NSW, Australia.
Last seen: 3 years, 28 days
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: Gumby]
    #5603503 - 05/08/06 12:30 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

FYI, I got my information from here:-

"The lawn mower's mushroom, in fact, may well be dangerous for toddlers, since it is known in some instances to contain small amounts of psilocybin. Chemical analysis has revealed this hallucinogen in some collections from some parts of North America. Elsewhere, the mushrooms appear to be inactive. But even where psilocybin does occur in the lawn mower's mushroom, it occurs in such small amounts that a thrill seeker would need to eat tons of them to be thrilled." - http://www.mushroomexpert.com/panaeolus_foenisecii.html


Edited by oO_wombat_Oo (05/08/06 12:31 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFeelers
Anti-Myth-Rhythm-Rock-Shocker
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 1,806
Loc: Land of Oz
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #5603519 - 05/08/06 12:34 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I dont get it how did two todlers die from eating shrooms if they are so non toxic? (the bodyweight in mushrooms statistic)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineeris
underground
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/17/98
Posts: 48,024
Loc: North East, USA
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
Trusted Identifier
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: Feelers]
    #5603529 - 05/08/06 12:37 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Sometimes, in certain stages, foenisecii can look so similar to subbs that I can easily see how collections may get mixed, leading one to think that they may be mildly active.


--------------------
Immortal / Temporarily Retired
The OG Thread Killer
My mushroom hunting gallery


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMuppet69_420
Speed feeder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 2,592
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: eris]
    #5603574 - 05/08/06 12:52 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

foe's are definently not active (shit I have like 40 of them growing in my lawn every year when its moist or has rained a day or two), and subbs are active but very low in potency.


--------------------
Quote:

I live to learn and learn to live.

forget w/e was here b4 it was meth gibberish.... :meff: :rail2: :rail: ....thats as old as my account...

On that note fart in public and grin. :publicfart:

Hail Shroomery!




Edited by Muppet69_420 (05/08/06 12:52 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #5603788 - 05/08/06 02:13 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

This is completely false. Pan Foe's ABSOLUTELY do not have psilocybin or psilocin. It is pointless to even reiterate this point.

One must need to remember that Mycology is still a infant science and their is a lot of misinformation.

Their is more knowledgeable people on this forum.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 812
Loc: NSW, Australia.
Last seen: 3 years, 28 days
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #5604037 - 05/08/06 05:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Well this guy who runs that website - who is obviously extremely knowledgable - never said they are "active". You couldn't possibly eat enough to make you trip. He just said some collections from some parts of the country have been shown to have miniscule amounts of psilocybin in them.

For me it's not hard to believe. But it's also not hard to belive he could be mistaken. Maybe he was referencing the study Gumby spoke about and it's all a big mistake. In either case it's totally and absolutely irrelevant becauase like he said, you'd have to eat a tonne of them to do anything at all (i.e. not active). You're right, Mycology maybe an infant science. That means I don't blindly believe him or people that post here. It is a mystery. Albiet an irrelevant one.

How could you possibly say there are more knowledgeable people on this forum? You don't even know him. And I would take it as a guess you don't know anyone on this forum either.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMuppet69_420
Speed feeder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 2,592
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #5604062 - 05/08/06 05:37 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If foe's were active with mild-moderate potency then worrying about getting active mushrooms would be the thing of the past.


--------------------
Quote:

I live to learn and learn to live.

forget w/e was here b4 it was meth gibberish.... :meff: :rail2: :rail: ....thats as old as my account...

On that note fart in public and grin. :publicfart:

Hail Shroomery!




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 812
Loc: NSW, Australia.
Last seen: 3 years, 28 days
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: Muppet69_420]
    #5606114 - 05/08/06 06:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Um... duh. Are you even reading the posts?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #5606287 - 05/08/06 07:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Rad the article posted here on the obbservations of Panaeo.ina foenisecii.

The above paragraph was taken out of context regarding that incidident which since has been proven to be false.

Read the whole story and followup before posting such distorted urban legend stories.

Here are two of those histories out of 3 involving little children, all of which years later were found by many mycologists to me misidentification of species involved and some or all three may not have involved shrooms at all.

Because of those three particular medical reports in journals, dozens of mushroom idneification and field guides carried the story into thier books and those later came into other peoples new guides and no one but I and McKenna and a few others noticed the distoritions of facts in the case.

Even the case involoving the alleged poisoning and death of two children (one form Oregon and one form Caldiofrnia) who died after suposedly consuming P. baeocystis caused that mushroom to be labels as toxic and deadly in young children.

After receiveing original polaroids of themushrommsidenified by mycologists Singer and Smith as Psilocybe baeocystis, the photos revealed that the mushrooms were actually Psilocybe cyanescens.

So here are the two original reports of these misdocumented cases of the suspected intioxication by Panaeolina foenisecii in two little boys.

Quote:

The three case histories of suspected ingestion of this species and a chronological review of the chemical analysis of P. foenisecii Maire (including a recent study carried out in Switzerland) are addressed critically in the discussion that follows.

Holden (1965) was the first to publish a report on a Panaeolina foenisecii poisoning of a young child (in England). Holden reported the following: "One evening last July (1965) I was phoned by the St. Albans police and asked if I would go to the city hospital to identify some fungi. A boy age three had eaten some toadstools that were growing on the lawn and was very ill with a high temperature, rapid pulse and dilated pupils though without any gastric symptoms. When I arrived at the hospital some very battered specimens were produced but these could be identified with reasonable confidence as Panaeolina foenisecii." Holden also noted that "There is no certainty that the boys illness was actually caused by eating toadstools." Furthermore Holden reported that "The child was too young for any information about hallucinations to be obtained and the case must therefore remain not proven." In the spring of 1990, the senior author (JWA) contacted Margaret Holden, a mycologist. Holden offered the following information: "There is very little I can add about the 3-year-old boy who ate Panaeolina foenisecii at St Albans in 1965. I did not see the child and the symptoms given in my note (News Bulletin of the BMS, no. 25) were described by the doctor in charge of the case. The mother had seen the boy eating toadstools that were growing on the lawn. After taking the child to the hospital she returned home to gather up the remaining specimens, which were given to me to identify. They were all of P. foenisecii but of course there could have been other species there on the lawn such as Psilocybe semilanceata (this is common around here[St Albans] in some seasons). About a week later I received a letter from the doctor thanking me for my help and telling me that the boy had completely recovered" (Holden, 1990, Pers. Comm.).

In 1966, Miller (1972), was informed that a four year old American boy (location in the U.S. unknown) was rendered comatose from ingesting Panaeolina foenisecii Maire. Miller's report provided no other information regarding this alleged incident. In January 1991, the authors contacted Miller of the (Department of Biology at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University). Miller provided the following information: "The four year old child incident occurred in 1966 in June the night before my family and I left for the Western United States. Dr. Paul Lenz a mycologist at the National Fungus Collection, now retired, called me at my home. He was not a specialist in the Agaricales and had been contacted at the Washington Childrens Hospital. He was at his laboratory and had the fungus in hand. His description led me to the conclusion that it was Panaeolina foenisecii. I asked him to check the microscopic characteristics which he did to confirm my identification. He told me that the four year old boy had grazed on an unknown number of fruiting bodies. At the time that he arrived at the hospital he was comatose and his mother was really upset. However, the boy revived soon and the parents were told to keep him awake and watch him for a while. As I heard later they had no trouble keeping him awake, in fact he was super charged for the next 12 hours until the mild hallucinogen wore off!!! Of course, at the time [1966] no one had extracted the psilocybin from it [Panaeolina foenisecii] so we could only speculate that it did have the toxin in it" (Miller 1991, Pers. Comm.).




Another quote leading to the one posted by you above:

Quote:

Although numerous mycologists had previously labeled Panaeolina foenisecii as edible, but not recommended for human consumption (Kreigger 1936; Bigalow 1974; Arora 1979; Dickenson & Lukas 1983; McKnight and Knight 1987), the following case history by Southcott (1974) apparently led many mycologists to label Panaeolina foenisecii as poisonous and/or hallucinogenic, and therefore a threat to children who might be more apt to accidentally consume this species (Miller 1972; Stevens & Gee 1977; Kibby 1979; Glick 1979; Cooper 1980; Smith & Weber 1980; Pacioni 1981; Courtenany & Burdsall 1982; Bassette & Sundberg 1987; Mckinny & Stuntz 1987).




Quote:

Whether or not Panaeolina foenisecii is psychoactive is unclear, but because of the above mentioned incidents, it is reported by some mycologists as dangerous to young children. For example, Smith and Weber (1980), who referred to this species as Psathyrella foenisecii, claimed that: "...the danger for toddlers is that parents may not be sure which species the child ate, since many lawn fungi fruit along with Psathyrella." Although Smith and Weber also noted the possible edibility of this fungus, they did not recommend ingestion: "Some populations may contain psilocybin and psilocin. It is one of the lawn species that toddlers find and eat when they are in the grazing stage. The danger to the child lies in the fact that we have 400?plus species [Psathyrella] of this genus in North America, and we know little of their chemistry. At least one case of serious poisoning in a child [cf. Southcott 1974], has been linked to this or a closely related species."

Orr and Orr (1979) also referred to the dangers this species might present to little children: "This very common little mushroom is frequently eaten by children who find it when they play, and this can be of concern because it contains small amounts of the psychotropic substances psilocybin and psilocin." However, if this species contains only a minute amount of psychoactive compounds, it would not cause the symptoms described by Holden (1965), Miller (1972), or Southcott (1974).




Quote:

In recent years, a number of mycologists have listed this species as being poisonous/hallucinogenic, probably basing their assumption on information provided by the above mentioned research. After re?examining past research and the additional evidence described above, it is our conclusion, as well as that of Gartz (1985), Guzman (1989), Stijve (1989), Watling (1989), Young (1989) and Singer (1991, Pers. Comm.), that Panaeolina foenisecii is not psychoactive.

It is possible that when Panaeolina foenisecii is collected from lawns, taxonomic identification is made, and specimens are passed on for chemical identification, other species known to macroscopically resemble Panaeolina foenisecii are unintentionally included in these collections. The other species could include Panaeolus subbalteatus Berkeley & Broome and/or Panaeolina castaneifolius (Murr) Ola'h=Panaeolina castaneifolius (Murr.) Smith (see figs. 3 & 4). According to Stijve (1989, pers. comm.), this would explain why some collections of Panaeolina foenisecii have been reported to be positive for psilocybin.




The above quotes are exceprted from Observations of Panaeolina foenisecii by John Allen and mark Amerlin and is posted here int he shroomeries FAQ section.

another point of ionterest is that there is no psilocine/psilocybine in those mushrooms and if there even was, a small child who miught be a rug rat and collected small edible looking items to put in his mouth usually spits something out which does not taste good to them.

Even adults who eat magic shrooms gag on the taste of them thus leading to making tea, soups, pizzas, smoothies, etc. So as not to taste them so a small child could bnever consume enough Panaeolina foenisecii to affect any mood.

They have tryptamines in them, especialy serotronine, but do not contqin psilocine and/or psilocybine and would not keep a small 3-6-year-old child intoxicated for 10-12 hours as stated int he original medical reports.

All of this is documented inmy files with personal communication with the doctors involved, thir notes before publication, after publications, and more than 15-20 years after the icident occurred.

Another mytrh spread by m both Gary Menser (Poisonous and Ahallucinogenic Mushroom Identification Guide) and David Arora's (Mushrooms Demystified) statrted an undocumented rumour that panaeolina ont he west coast are inactive and are active onthe east coast.

Urban Legend.

Also some ddo this with Amanita muscaria form here and more powerful somewhere else and some Gymnopilus species are described on one coast as active and not ont he other.

mj


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 812
Loc: NSW, Australia.
Last seen: 3 years, 28 days
Re: ATL Subs find today! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #5606358 - 05/08/06 07:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

MJ, I know who you are and I respect that you have an excellent knowledge of your area of study. However, in the interest of good natured debate...

(1) I never posted anything even remotely touching on an urban legend. I posted a direct quote from a reputable source and mycologist and referenced that source. It has absolutely nothing to do with any urban legend.

(2) The quote I posted says that psilocybin was detected in the mushroom by chemical analysis, not by guesstimating on urban legends. The two methods are very different.

(3) Nobody is claiming they are "active". In order for them to be active they would have to contain enough of the drug to have an effect. For example, there are minuscule amounts of poisons in many foods, but not present in enough quantity to do anything. Does this make those foods "poisonous"? Of course not.

(4) I am not claiming there is an psilocybin in these mushrooms. All I am saying is that it's my personal opinion that there is not enough evidence available to say conclusively one way or the other.

Afterall, in order to prove the negative argument (i.e there is definitely no psilocybin in any lawn mushroom, anywhere) one would be required to collect every single lawn mushroom in existence and do a chemical analysis on every single sample and show that none of them contained any of that chemical. I doubt anyone has done this.

However, to prove the positive (there exists some samples that contain minuscule amounts) all one would have to do is find one such mushroom, wherever it may be and do the chemical analysis. According to the quote I referenced this has indeed been done. Maybe he is mistaken, maybe not. I'm not saying for sure either way. All I'm saying is it's unknown at this point and stating things as fact is premature.



Edited by oO_wombat_Oo (05/08/06 07:53 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Original Sensible Seeds USA West Coast Strains   Amanita Muscaria Store Amanita Extract   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Cultivation Supplies


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The Official 2007 Panaeolina foenisecii Thread.
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
coon 42,571 153 07/14/22 01:44 PM
by LBM91
* Some Panaeolina foenisecii contain psilocybin.
( 1 2 all )
oO_wombat_Oo 26,945 22 07/31/10 09:29 AM
by sof4r0ckeRs1984
* Gerhardt's Panaeolina Foenisecii Worldwide studied specimens mjshroomer 1,271 0 05/13/07 11:35 AM
by mjshroomer
* Subs - SE Suburbs, Victoria - Few questions and ID help
( 1 2 all )
Bread 17,082 31 06/15/10 01:09 AM
by msanchez420
* Re: Panaeolus foenisecii (170 wet grams) Anonymous 7,830 10 06/23/00 10:55 AM
by mattso
* comparison subs to foenisecii(photos) rungi 7,902 16 06/13/02 11:27 AM
by why
* ID Mushroom species (maybe Psilocybe foenisecii) *DELETED* bonald 1,395 5 09/17/06 08:04 AM
by todosmentira
* Panaeolus Foenisecii activity
( 1 2 all )
bearmtn 9,021 32 07/26/05 08:12 PM
by avionando

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: ToxicMan, inski, Alan Rockefeller, Duggstar, TimmiT, Anglerfish, Tmethyl, Lucis, Doc9151, Land Trout
4,634 topic views. 1 members, 18 guests and 7 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.032 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 16 queries.