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Offlinebearmtn
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Panaeolus Foenisecii activity
    #4082352 - 04/21/05 07:55 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Many current "experts" have proclaimed that Panaeolus Foenisecii is never psycho-active at any time. Back in the late 1970s in my shroom days I actually harvested a patch of blue staining Foenisecii that were definitely active. In late summer, on a lawn that grew non active Foenisecii for years. They were identical to the detail to the non actives except for blue staining stems and caps. I never found them again on this lawn or any other.
Anyone out ther ever come across this??


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: bearmtn]
    #4082403 - 04/21/05 08:11 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

strange story

you must have been finding something else other than Panaeolina foenisecii.
possibly you were finding a psychoactive species of Panaeolus.


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #4082986 - 04/21/05 11:06 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

first of all i must correct you. Due to the fact all Panaeolus species have a black spore print, and foenisecii's spore deposit is brown, it has been placed under "Panaeolina". Therefore; Panaeolina Foenisecii is the correct name.

you probably found Panaeolus Subbalteatus, which is an active, but rarely stains blue. It's very low in psilocybin, but still active. This mushroom is often mistaken for Panaeolina Foenisecii in the field by most amateur hunters. Even alot of professionals have made this mistake.


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: CptnGarden]
    #4083072 - 04/21/05 11:35 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

if they key out to Panaeolus, the spores are brown and they are roughened, they fall within the group/sub-genus Panaeolina, however; P. foenisecii is not active as far as general conscensus by the authorities goes. it is also not the only member of Panaeolina [i think].

i have found almost large [by contrast], lawn enhabiting Panaeolina specimens that i am quite sure showd mild blueing on the basal mycellia more than once. there may simply by a weakly active species not yet published in the group. who knows, life forms do funny things when you approach thier study fromm the standpoint that all things about them are know or understood.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


Edited by concretefeet (04/21/05 11:42 PM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: canid]
    #4083899 - 04/22/05 05:04 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Concretefeet d said,
Quote:

if they key out to Panaeolus, the spores are brown and they are roughened, they fall within the group/sub-genus Panaeolina,




Panaolus spores are black, Panaeolina spores are brown. There are four species of panaeolina and none of them contain psilocine and /or psioocybine.

And they are not active in any amount.

Panaeolus subbalteatus is as potent by weight as Psilocybe cubensis. 3-5 dried grams or over one fresh ounce of Pn. subbs is the equivalent of 3-5 dried grams of cubes or over one fresh ounce of cubes.

mj.


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Offlinebearmtn
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: mjshroomer]
    #4084184 - 04/22/05 10:04 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I knew this would raise some eyebrows and controversy, that's why I posted it. This particular find was so unusual and surprising. Paying attention to minute identifying characteristics at that time, I can assure you that this was a brown spored Foenisecii down to the minute detail except for the definite blue staining stem and cap (the cap on drying). It was active also. I had a habit for several years back then to quickly examine Foenisecii every lawn that I encountered, as they were the most common summer lawn specie in our region. I got to know the specie very well. I just love it when conventional wisdom and knowledge is confounded by our little mushroom friends!


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Offlinefindaway29
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: bearmtn]
    #4084503 - 04/22/05 12:11 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

i have the same in my yard. they bruise blue but not very much and i'm positive that they are Panaeolus Foenisecii. finding them last year for the first time was how i was introduced to mushroom hunting.


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: findaway29]
    #4084610 - 04/22/05 01:03 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

panaeolus subbalteatus and panaeolina foenisecii look very similar in resemblance, if your all finding these blue staining foes why aren't you posting pictures of them? all of you could be as famous as mj if you could prove that foes can be active, or even discover a new species. Post some pictures of these blue staining foes and have MJ identify them, im sure they are just subbs.


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: CptnGarden]
    #4084619 - 04/22/05 01:06 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Panaeolus subbalteatus is as potent by weight as Psilocybe cubensis.




wow you learn something new every day. I've noticed the psilocybin content actualy varies with subbs and where they are found... isn't there a difference in potency based on how much nitrogen is used when producing fruit bodies? Some of the subbs I found only took 10-12 large mushrooms (2.5 grams) to feel some good effects. While in other "experiments" it took nearly 4 grams to feel anything at all. All subbs with black spore deposits!

EDIT: the 2.5 grams of mushrooms were found in a grass field and were very potent for subbs, while the 4 grams of subbs were found on a huge pile of composted horse manure and weren't as potent, even with the high amount of nitrogen for growth.


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Offlinebearmtn
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: CptnGarden]
    #4084692 - 04/22/05 01:23 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

As I stated in my original post , this was back in the 1970s. I can't post a photo. I havn't found these since. Out of the 1000s of Foenisecii I have examined these were the only active ones. They weren't Pan. Subb., they were brown spored. Foenisecii and Subbs. aren't very hard to distinguish.


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Offlinebearmtn
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: bearmtn]
    #4084764 - 04/22/05 01:38 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I only brought up this subject to discuss some of the interesting anomalies that different variables and conditions can produce. In my younger days (sigh) in the 1970s I spent an inordinate amount of time, years, studying and hunting for psychoactive fungi. For example, I used to take a pilgrimage to the extreme northern part of my state each fall to pick Ps. Pelliculosa. In some patches you could not observe any bluing at all and you could consume a pound without any effect. In other patches, specimens blued as much as Liberty caps and were quite active when consumed.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: bearmtn]
    #4084833 - 04/22/05 01:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

What state do you live in?


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Offlinefindaway29
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: CptnGarden]
    #4084851 - 04/22/05 01:58 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomieOfDoomie said:
panaeolus subbalteatus and panaeolina foenisecii look very similar in resemblance, if your all finding these blue staining foes why aren't you posting pictures of them? all of you could be as famous as mj if you could prove that foes can be active, or even discover a new species. Post some pictures of these blue staining foes and have MJ identify them, im sure they are just subbs.





like i said, they were my first introduction to mushrooms last year and i do have pics but they are to big to put on here. i later learned how to change the size on the camera but then the mushrooms were gone. I emailed them to gumby and asked him to make them smaller but i guess he got to busy. i know the differnce between the 2.


Edited by findaway29 (04/22/05 02:27 PM)


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Offlinebearmtn
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: mjshroomer]
    #4084872 - 04/22/05 02:04 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I live in a state in the intermountain/northwest that isn't coastal. Sorry for being vague, just a paranoid habit.


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Offlinebearmtn
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: bearmtn]
    #4084891 - 04/22/05 02:12 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I also want to add that there are many people that post on this message board that know one heck of alot more than I do concerning mycology. That's evident from my reading of their posts. So I certainly could be wrong about some of my conclusions and I want to keep an open mind about it.


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: bearmtn]
    #4085530 - 04/22/05 05:46 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

you said: you could consume a pound without any effect. In other patches, specimens blued as much as Liberty caps and were quite active when consumed.


if you eat a pound of any fresh mushrooms you'll probably end up feeling kind of sick.
a pound is a lot

and liberty caps dont readily exhibit 'bluing', so you might be thinking another mushroom


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Offlinebearmtn
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #4086090 - 04/22/05 08:56 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Hate to differ with you but most specimens of P. Semilanceata will exhibit some bluing when the stem is broken or bruised. The caps also show some bluing when drying. It is not as pronounced as P.cyans,P.baeocystis, or some of the others and it somtimes is slow to blue after bruising but it's there.
Regards.


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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: bearmtn]
    #4086122 - 04/22/05 09:04 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I'm excited to see the pictures sent to Gumby.. that will clear this whole thing up :smile:


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Offlinefindaway29
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: Rebirtha]
    #4086150 - 04/22/05 09:16 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

i sent them last year when i first started posting here. if he still has them then it'll be a miracle.


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OfflineGumbyM
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: findaway29]
    #4086540 - 04/22/05 11:17 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Chances are I was probably overloaded with school work (seems to be the case 99% of the time) or my spam filter caught the email. I check my shroomery account earlier today and I haven't recieved anything on there in... shit.. probably a month or two :P

If you'll send them again to gumby@shroomery.org I'll be sure to resize and upload ASAP.


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