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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: Gumby]
    #4086696 - 04/23/05 12:07 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

libertycaps i pick almost always blue. usually quite intensely.

and as for pan subbs,




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Offlinecanid
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: mjshroomer]
    #4087201 - 04/23/05 02:29 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

MJ: you have to understand taht i am refering to Panaeolina as a sub-group of Panaeolus, and not treating it as a seperate genus, though it may be incongruous with the current arrangement.

my point is that there are no recognized species of Panaeolina containing psilocybian compounds, and it is always possible that there is an undescribed species in need of a new taxon.

the fact is that in this case, if the spores are roughened and brown, they are Panaeolina, and blueing does not make any difference, except to exclude them from P. foenisecii.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: canid]
    #4088082 - 04/23/05 12:19 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

The Panaolina mushrooms found to contain psilocine were what is known as a false positive.

Panaeolina is not a panaeolus mushroom because it has brown spores not black as in the genus Panaeolus,which belong to the Coprinaceaea. And there are four species of Panaeolina and none are psychoactive or contain any psilocine or psilocybine although they contain other non-active trytamines, as do most Panaeolus sp.

Copelandia mushrooms would be closer to a sub-genus of Panaeolus because of their black spores.

You should read my paper with Merlin on Panaolina from the Yearbook of Ethnomedicine and the Study of Consciousness vol. 1. It is here in the Shroomeries FAQ pages.

Also to bring up another urban legend and myth.

Two female writers for High Times, Lynn and Judy Osborne, writing under the pseudonyms of Brolyn, wrote a lengthy article for High Times called "America's Home Harvest: Panaeolina foenisecii."

They showed some images of some mutated foenisecii mushrooms, gave them a non-existing mushroom name and said they were all over America in the spring and you could get high off of them. IT was a BS article.

High Times also advertised a full page add for some company offereing four Shitkae mushrooms for $25.00 as magic shrooms.

But P. foenisecii is not a psychoactive psilocine/psilocybine containing mushroom.

All of the reports of activity came from a separate analysis out of several hundred conducted after the findings of the paper by Robbers, Tyler and Ola'h, and refutiated all claims of psychoactivity in the species.

This was the single paper which led many guides to list this species as a psychoactive species.

Robbers, J. E., Tyler, V. E., and G.-M. Ola'h. 1969. Additional evidence supporting the occurrence of psilocybin in Panaeolus foenisecii. Lloydia vol. 32:399-400.

In the above listed study, three collections of Panaeolus foenisecii were analyzed for indole content. For further information regarding the alleged psychoactivity of Panaeolus foenisecii, see Allen and Merlin, 1992c.

Gary Lincoff said the west coast varieties were not active and David Arora claimed that the east coast varieties were, yet neither had conducted any chemical analysis of the species from their region to varify or confirm their alledged claims.

Even Pollock assumed it was psychoactive and wrote about it in his paper, as did Ott and later Singer.

The same is true of the mis-identified Panaeolus sphinctrinus which Schultes and Reko first identified as a Panaeolus mushroom used in ritual ceremonies. Later Singer found Psilocybe mexicana speciemens in the original Schultes and Reko collections at Harvard's Farlow herbarium.

And Schultes in a personal Communication to me on several ocassions said that the mushroom is not psychoactive and was misidentified, yet, the error of the id of that species remains in the new updated edition of "Plants of the Gods" by R. E. Schultes and A. Hofmann and re-edited with a little new info by Christian Rtsch. And also in Schultes' Hallucinogenic plants book, as a mushroom used by the Mazatec Indians in ritual ceremonies and that is not true.

Anyway, once again I reiterate, Panaeolina foenisecii is not a psilocybin containing mushroom.


And very rarely in ther PNW do liberty caps show hardly any bluing whatsoever. They also seem to be one of the species whiich holds their potency the most. Spedimens analysed from an 1851 colelction from London werre found to be as potent as recently picked liberty caps were from the same year of analysis., but then again they rarely stain blue here.

And that is only from improper picking of them by squeezing the stems when lifting them from the grasses they are attached to.

mj


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Offlinebearmtn
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: mjshroomer]
    #4088311 - 04/23/05 02:04 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

I don?t think I would ever be so bold as to say that P. foenisecii is never psychoactive, ever, never has been, never will be, etc. That is too bold of a statement (and unscientific) in the light of some evidence, however small, that under certain conditions in some rare instances a blue staining psychoactive group of foenisecii specimens can occur. I found these in one and only one instance: a blue staining, most definitely active (guess how that was discovered) brown spored foenisecii that had every other identifying characteristic of p. foenisecii, growing in a lawn where nonactive foenisecii grew for years . I am not making reference to their existence from past literature only from experience. Perhaps it was a rarely occurring specie (not foenisecii) that has these identifying characteristics. I really don?t know.


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: mjshroomer]
    #4088394 - 04/23/05 02:41 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

panaeolina has brown spores because of the roughened testure of the spores, not warranting a new genus imo.

i will say again, as you do not listen much: there are no PUBLISHED species within Panaeolina containing psilocybian compounds, and this does *NOT* mean that none exist wisch should belong there.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: canid]
    #4088586 - 04/23/05 03:35 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

HI, because of misidentification of species, many other species have also been suggested as psychoactive with psilocybian properties, including an African published paper in a prestigeous journal which reports Chlorophyllum molybdites as a mushroom which causes one to see and hear voices.

However, this also is apparently a misidentification since it is already regcognized as a poisonous species in the americas and most of the world.

And Panaeolus subbalteatus is some stages the gill plates look reddish brown which akes them appear to be brown spored to the unobserved eye.

I have shown photos of deadly Galerina autumnalis mushrooms to people who tried to convince me they had tripped on them before.

And as much as you frequent here you do know that many people see pur[ple stains rather than blue, see colors that are not there, etc.

ANd bluing only shows the presence of psilocine in mushrooms, not there potencies.

And remember that Panaeolina was also known as a Psathyrella and a psilocybe, besides Panaeolus and Panaeolina. The genus Psilocybe also use to include most Deconica, Naematoloma and even Stropharia.

And many of the Psilocybe characteristics of the genera can be seen in Agrocybe and Galerina and other species. It would never be called a sub-genus of Panaeolus because of its roughened brown sproes.

Have a shroomy day,

mj


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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: mjshroomer]
    #4089492 - 04/23/05 08:52 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

i am aware of the frequency of misidentifications, even in collections for assay and understand how people can misinterpret spore print color [especialy when the color ois assumed from merely looking at the mature gills. luckily, i our case, we can be sure if a print is taken.

i ca not speak for bearmtn, but in the course of my finding brown-spored mushrooms wich i had taken for Panaeolina foenisecii and wich exhibited a blueing of the basal mycellia, i have printed them to be certain.

i understand that there is no evidence to support my claims, as i did not post spore prints of the ones i found when first i posted pictures, but there is a brown spored mushroom wich occurrs on lawns and contains some indole-derivative or other compounds wich oxidise deep sky blue at the bases of the stipes. this is all i can say for sure.

image:


the full-sized image seems to have been lost during one of the bb/server changes


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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Offlinebearmtn
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: canid]
    #4089799 - 04/23/05 10:15 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

These Foenisecii-like specimens had brown spore print and blued on stems and caps when bruised, not just at the base of stipes. Bluing was not immediate as the P. cyans I have picked but slower. Definite psilocybin/psilocin type activity. Growing on well maintained lawn in mid August at 85+ F daytime temp. Not typical Pan. Subb. conditions.
Just an unusual and interesting find, for me anyway, after years of examining pychoactive fungi in the Pacific and Intermountain West. Not anything to argue or disagree on, just food for discussion.
Regards


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: bearmtn]
    #4089870 - 04/23/05 10:40 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

I once read about a woman tripping after eating Laetiporus sulphureus, which is is a known nonactive edible. If a chicken mushroom can freak out and produce psilocybin et all, then I suppose any mushroom could. It would be friggin awesome if someone could isolate an active pan foen.


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Offlinefindaway29
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: shroomydan]
    #4091781 - 04/24/05 04:18 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

it'll never happen.


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Offlinetheshade
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: bearmtn]
    #4456229 - 07/26/05 05:43 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I have also found what I believe i Panaeolus Foenisecii on my (and others) lawn. I have compared the ones I found with pics on the net and every time I watch a pic I am convinced that it is Panaeolus Foenisecii I have found. what I want to know is how to be sure is is not a poisonous species and if it is "active" (hallucinogenic?)


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theShade


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Offlinetheshade
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: theshade]
    #4456234 - 07/26/05 05:46 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

how do I know it is the correct (a hallucinogenic) mushroom from the print?


--------------------
theShade


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Offlineavionando
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Re: Panaeolus Foenisecii activity [Re: mjshroomer]
    #4457251 - 07/26/05 10:12 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

When I was younger living in So Cal I was determined to find active species. Never found anything active but found many many P. Foenisecii. I collected them by the dozens determined to find ones that were active. Many of them showed mild bluing at the base of the stem where mycelium was still atached. Consuming these mushrooms, even in large quantities never effected us in any way. Didn't matter wether they showed bluing or not. New species seem to be discovered all the time who can really say baermtn wasn't finding something that we have not.


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