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Anonymous

Re: Panaeolus foenisecii (170 wet grams)
    #76206 - 06/18/00 04:20 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

That specie is only pyschoactive in some areas. Do you see any bluing on your specimens? If so, they are good.
A friend in Mexico tells me that in one particular field that is heavly laden in cow shit, that specie is as potent as cubs!

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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Registered: 12/24/99
Posts: 8,946
Re: Panaeolus foenisecii (170 wet grams)
    #76207 - 06/18/00 12:02 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

?
? ? ?
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?

now THAT is a darn good question.


you should find somemore potent shroom buddy

think foenisecii is inactive anyhow



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Anonymous

Re: Panaeolus foenisecii (170 wet grams)
    #76209 - 06/19/00 01:16 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I live in Quebec, very near Ontario so it a temperate climate. We use fertiliser on our lawn... I tried some last night, maybe it's just me, but I think I got a mild relaxing effect out of them. Yes i think they are mildly psycho-active. Tonight I ate a wet ounce of them, I know i shouldnt of cuz I ate some yesterday, but anyhow I still can sleep. :wink:

------------------
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"My god is better than your god"



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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Panaeolus foenisecii (170 wet grams)
    #76210 - 06/19/00 04:50 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Hello, Hello. Contrary to what you may have read or believe, there is no psilocine, psilocybine or baeocystin in the mushroom species known as Panaeolina foenisecii aka as Psilocybe foenisecii, Psathrylla foenisecii, or Panaeolus foeniesecii.. It is ludicrous that it would be active in one area and not in another. In fact it was Haard and Haard who suggested that it was active on the east coast only while mycologist/real estate agent Gary Menser, author of Hallucinogenic and poiisonous Mushroom Handbook suggested this species was only active on the West Coast. see the excerpt from Allen and Merlin, 1992, "Oberservations Regarding the Suspected Psychoactive Properties of Panaeolina foenisecii Maire." In: Ratsch (ED>) Yearbook for Ethnomedicine and the Study of Consciousness." Volume1(1):99-115.In the past, as noted above, numerous mycologists had listed this species as edible, but not desirable; while most recent mycological publications refer to this mushroom as poisonous and/or hallucinogenic.


Studies of Panaolina foenisecii.
The question of the suspected psychoactive properties of P. foenisecii, which allegedly caused hallucinations in three young children (described above), three teen-agers (Cooles 1980), and two elderly ladies (Allen 1988b), is confused by conflicting observations of mycologists and other investigators who have studied this species. There is some mycological disagreement regarding the natural production and presence of psilocybin and psilocin in Panaeolina foenisecii. Some have even referred to the suspected appearance of these alkaloids in this species as sporadic (Ola'h 1970).

Panaeolina foenisecii was first investigated for the presence of indole compounds by Tyler and Smith (1963). They detected no psilocybin or psilocin in the specimens they analyzed, but did report the occurrence of 5-hydroxytryptamine (serotonin), along with 5-hydroxytryptophan, and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid. Two years later, Holden (1965) reported a suspected poisoning in a young English boy who became ill with tachycardia and mydriasis after allegedly consuming Panaeolina foenisecii). Specimens of the fungus collected in England and examined by Holden in 1969, contained no detectable psilocybin or psilocin (Mantle & Waight 1969).

Ola'h (1968a; 1968b; 1969; 1970) studied this species and described it as being 'latent psilocybian' (i.e., only producing these compounds sporadically). Robbers et al. (1969), reported detection of psilocybin in two collections of P. foenisecii, ?? one from Lafayette, Indiana, and another from Quebec, Canada. A third collection of the fungus, from Seattle, Washington, did not contain psilocybin.

In 1972 Fiusello and Ceruti?Scurti reported analysis of an Italian collection of P. foenisecii and found psilocybin present in one of two samples. Specimens collected during the spring of 1972 in Seattle, Washington tested negative (Enos 1972; Brolyn 1990). Later that same year, Miller (1972) commented on a case of poisoning that occurred earlier in 1966, in which this fungus was eaten by a four year old boy who "...was rendered comatose for a short time." Two years later, Southcott (1974) reported the above cited Australian case.

Although much earlier, Cleland (1934) first recorded the presence of the "haymaker's mushroom" in Australia, he identified the fungus as Psilocybe foenisecii (Pers.) Fr. (the Latin name Foenisecia, means "Hay? harvest). Cleland made no mention regarding the species toxicity or edibility.

Specimens of P. foenisecii collected near Canberra, Australia were analyzed by R.W. Rickards (cf. Southcott 1974) and were reported as being psilocybin negative. Ott (1976), citing Robbers et al. (1969) as his source, noted that P. foenisecii specimens from Ontario and Indiana were tested as psilocybin positive. The specimens referred to above were actually collected in Quebec and Indiana. Ott (1974?1975) later mentioned that he himself ingested a large number of the "haymaker's mushroom collected near Olympia, Washington; he reported no noticeable effects.

Pollock (1976) based the following statement on a study by Ola'h (1970) involving five samples of P. foenisecii (four from Quebec and one from Paris); "two from Quebec contained both psilocybin and psilocin, whereas the one from Paris and one of the two other samples from Quebec contained psilocybin."

Ott and Guzman (1976) carried out further investigations regarding the production of psilocybin and psilocin in P. foenisecii. They analyzed specimens from the Federal District of Mexico and found them to be void of psilocybin. Ott and Pollock (Guzman et al. 1976) also collected specimens of P. foenisecii from Oregon in 1975. No psilocybin was detected.

Haard and Haard (1975) suggested that psilocybin and psilocin are only found in this fungus in the United States on the East Coast; while Menser (1977) noted that "Western analyses have often shown the presence of psilocybin (but not psilocin) in small amounts only" (the authors of the present study found no reference verifying either Menser's or Haard and Haard's claims). Singer (1978) also ingested "raw" specimens of this species. He reported no "psychotropic" effects whatsoever. Subsequent chemical analysis of P. foenisecii by Singer (1991, Pers. Comm.) was negative. Arora (1979), believing this species to be harmless, stated that the " 'chemical analysis have revealed traces of psilocybin in certain strains, but [the] material I tested was inactive."

Watling (1979) collected specimens of Panaeolina foenisecii in 1974 from Western Australia. He described the suspected poisoning of a two year old girl in Australia (the case originally reported by Southcott in 1974; see case history no. 3 above). Watling briefly mentioned Holden's (1965) report of an alleged poisoning of a three year old child in Great Britain, and argued that "because of its wide spread distribution, and its frequency on lawns and in parks P. foenisecii is likely to cause poisonings, especially in young children."

Cooles (1980) reported that three teen?agers in the British Isles sought emergency treatment after each had allegedly consumed between 20 to 30 mushrooms. The mushrooms in this case were reported to be Panaeolina foenisecii; however, all three patients displayed symptoms of visual disturbances which included "euphoria and hallucinations of color and speed of movements such that lawns developed patches of brilliant colors and cars moved frighteningly fast." It is possible that these three young teen?agers may have consumed some specimens of Panaeolina foenisecii; but the symptoms described are similar to those associated with the ingestion of Psilocybe species (i.e., P. semilanceata (Fr. ex Secr.) Kumm., which is native to the British Isles, and P. cubensis (Earle) Singer, a commonly ingested psychoactive species which is not indigenous to these islands, but can be grown indoors clandestinely). In 1982, Beug and Bigwood published their analysis of two collections of Psathyrella foenisecii (syn, P. foenisecii) collected in 1978 from the Pacific Northwest. They reported the fungus specimens to be void of any psilocybin or psilocin.

Christiansen, Rasmussen, and Holland (1984) analyzed Norwegian specimens of Panaeolina collected from a lawn in September of 1982 and detected no indole compounds. Stijve, Hischenhuber, and Ashley (1984) "...are of the opinion that P. foenisecii cannot contain psilocybin or psilocin at all." These scientists came to this conclusion after analyzing 16 different collections of P. foenisecii from 8 countries, including Australia, the United States and six in Europe. Specimens analyzed for possible indole compounds were collected over an eleven year period (1973?1982). Stijve, Hischenhuber, and Ashley also conducted controlled laboratory experiments with human volunteers to test the possible effects of P. foenisecii; however, "...even the equivalent of 40 gm of fresh mushrooms failed to produce any psychotropic effect." Gartz (1985) reported that his study and analysis of 100 specimens of P. foenisecii were psilocybin negative. More recently Ohenoja et al. (1987) detected psilocybin (0.03)% in two separate dried specimens collected in Finland.

In 1977, Allen (1988a) collected a species of Panaeolina in Oxnard, California which macroscopically resembled P. foenisecii; later, Allen bioassayed this species and found that the mushrooms (40 fresh specimens weighing 52 gm) were definitely psychoactive. No voucher specimens were saved for examination. It is possible that the specimens collected in this case were misidentified by Allen and were actually Panaeolus castaneifolius (Murr.) Ola'h=Panaeolina castaneifolius (Murr.) Smith, or a similar related variety of Panaeolus. Allen (1988b) also reported that two elderly ladies were allegedly intoxicated by Panaeolina foenisecii in Portland, Oregon.

According to a recent study by Young (1988) "...chromatographic analysis of Australian Material (Panaeolina foenisecii) has not yet demonstrated the presence of any psilocybin in this species."

Based on his personal ingestion of the fungus, John Leonard (1989, Pers. Comm.), a resident of Hingham, Massachusetts, claimed that Panaeolina foenisecii collected on his own front lawn was psychoactive in large quantity. Voucher specimens of Leonard's 1985 collection have been deposited at the Bishop Herbarium in Honolulu, Hawaii for scientific examination (1989. 363. Sheet # 580325. May?June 1985. Plymouth, Mass.). Two other collections of Leonard's specimens were forwarded to Dr. T. Stijve in Switzerland for study. Botanical identity was confirmed and chemical properties were established. Both collections of the fungi were analyzed by High Performance Liquid Chromatography and by High Performance Thin Layered Chromatography with identical results (see Fig. 2). Comparative analyses using specimens of Copelandia cyanescens from the Hawaiian Islands shows that both of Leonard's collections of Panaeolina foenisecii from Massachusetts contain characteristic compounds of Panaeolus species. These include urea, serotonin and its precursor 5?hydroxytryptophan. Although tryptophan might also present, there is definitely no psilocybin or psilocin, (i.e., 0.01% dry weight). Also the absence of bufotonin (5?hydroxy?N, N? dimethyltryptamine) suggests that the fungi is not able to methylate serotonin (Stijve et al., 1984). The results in figure 2 show the difference.

Recently a popular American publication devoted to the drug subculture featured a pictorial which described Panaeolina foenisecii as a common psychoactive fungi (Brolyn 1990).

CONCLUSIONS

In recent years, a number of mycologists have listed this species as being poisonous/hallucinogenic, probably basing their assumption on information provided by the above mentioned research. After re?examining past research and the additional evidence described above, it is our conclusion, as well as that of Gartz (1985), Guzman (1989), Stijve (1989), Watling (1989), Young (1989) and Singer (1991, Pers. Comm.), that Panaeolina foenisecii is not psychoactive.

It is possible that when Panaeolina foenisecii is collected from lawns, taxonomic identification is made, and specimens are passed on for chemical identification, other species known to macroscopically resemble Panaeolina foenisecii are unintentionally included in these collections. The other species could include Panaeolus subbalteatus Berkeley & Broome and/or Panaeolina castaneifolius (Murr) Ola'h=Panaeolina castaneifolius (Murr.) Smith (see figs. 3 & 4), or similar Panaeoloidal species. According to Stijve (1989, pers. comm.), this would explain why some collections of Panaeolina foenisecii have been reported to be positive for psilocybin

The authors of this study would recommend controlled studies of cultivated Panaeolina foenisecii in which precursor(s) known to affect production of psilocybin and/or psilocin in proven producers of the indoles would be supplied to the organism. Controlled studies have demonstrated that these indoles are secondary metabolites which may not occur in collections lacking specific nutrients and which occur in larger quantities if proper precursors are provided


Well I hope people read this paper and realize that it is not psychoactive.

Read the whole article posted right here at the Shroomery in the General Information section in the Sections index posted at the top left of the page.

Mj



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Anonymous

Re: Panaeolus foenisecii (170 wet grams)
    #76211 - 06/19/00 06:07 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Excellent job John. According to the reports, there may still be a sliver of doubt in some minds as some studies seemed to find small traces of psilocybin in large amounts. I based my statement on the information found in 'How to Id and Grow Psilocybin Mushrooms' by Rick (Mr.?) Gee and Julie Stevens in which they state that it contains psilocybin only in some areas of the country.

It certainly ain't my area, I consumed over 100 one day and didn't even get a buzz and I definately would not recommend it as a mushroom that will get you high.

I think the controlled study is the answer.

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It's a trip you'll never forget!



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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Panaeolus foenisecii (170 wet grams)
    #76212 - 06/19/00 06:51 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)


Hi,

Rich is my friend and his statements were also based on heresay back in the middle 1970s.

Thgis shroom is not psychoactive and It disturbs me how this urban legend info always comes back because everyone follows everyone elses mistakes.

My mistake is that My article wa published in an European Journal and not an American Journal.

The how to grow book also has several erors init. Several pictures label as P. pelliculosa are relly p. semilanceata and vice-versa. Also one of the unidentified photos is mine but no credit is given, except in acknowledgemnets as Mushroom John of Seattle.

SStill it was a cool book at the time, published by Steve Murphy who wrote the How to grow pot indoors and how to grow the finest under halides, etc. Jules stevens is realy Steve Jewells late of Friends hairdressers and Dance Studios here in Seattle.

By the way I have drank tea from about 300 mushrooms of panaolina and only felt tired, maybe the effects of the other tryptamines such as the tryptophan which is used medicinaly for imsomnia and depressioopn, except the man made product is L-tryptophan, which is slight different thwen the tryptophan in the mushrooms.

Have a shroomy day,

mj



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Anonymous

Re: Panaeolus foenisecii (170 wet grams)
    #76213 - 06/19/00 02:02 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

sure they dont have psychedelic effects but I ate 10 wet grams and I felt relaxed, and just a little aroused. Maybe the mushroom is just good to eat after all

------------------
Turn on, tune in, bah, you know the rest...

"My god is better than your god"



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Anonymous

Re: Panaeolus foenisecii (170 wet grams)
    #76214 - 06/19/00 02:16 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

oh yeah i guess i wont eat anymore... hehehe


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OfflineMitchnast
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Registered: 10/28/99
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Re: Panaeolus foenisecii (170 wet grams)
    #76215 - 06/20/00 04:18 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

you felt relaxed and aroused? hmm, sounds like the symptoms of someone expecting to trip. all excited but trying to be calm.
its not the effects of the mushroom man, its all in your mind. go take some good shrooms and ansk yourself... "was paneolina Foenicecii like this buzz in anyway?" ill bet you will agree its very different. now buy acid from some gouy you dont know and get no effects, ill bet you thought you felt relaxed and aroused too, and maybe it was a weak hit. cmon man. you oughtta know better than to fool yoursef :smile:


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Anonymous

Re: Panaeolus foenisecii (170 wet grams)
    #76216 - 06/22/00 04:38 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

yes.... now i know what is the placebo effect :wink:

------------------
Turn on, tune in, bah, you know the rest...

"My god is better than your god"



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Offlinemattso
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Re: Panaeolus foenisecii (170 wet grams)
    #76217 - 06/23/00 12:55 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe you should eat like.. 500 grams...

Or do what I do.. I go out there to my front lawn with my pitching wedge and practice my golf swing on the little beauties.. It's fun to watch the expression on the drivers' faces as little mushroom fragments come soaring at them at light speed...
Now if I could just do something about that slice... I guess it'll have to wait till Fall.


m

[This message has been edited by mattso (edited June 23, 2000).]



--------------------
"Humanity is entering into a time of consequences" ---
- Winston Churchill


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